The Official CJ McCollum Thread

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Jade Falcon, Oct 26, 2018.

  1. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    9,567
    Likes Received:
    2,796
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is a big part of the reason I feel CJ and Dame don't compliment each other that well. Letting CJ dominate the ball doesn't make sense, as Dame is the more efficient scorer and superior playmaker. OTOH, if Dame dominates the ball, CJ has minimal value because he doesn't play well off the ball. How do you maximize their values if they are on the court together? This would be one of the advantages of making CJ the focal point of the second unit.
     
    brooklynballer and TBpup like this.
  2. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    5,733
    Likes Received:
    7,966
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Business Owner
    Location:
    North Plains
    But @wizenheimer just posted stats that show CJ is an elite spot up shooter. Shouldn't getting him set shots be the priority? That implies playing him off the ball. Maybe the problem is that he should be handling the ball less and just shooting off of passes rather than creating his own offense.
     
  3. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    25,116
    Likes Received:
    20,723
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What was that? Link to the post?
     
  4. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    297
    Likes Received:
    610
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I'm not sure how much weight to give the numbers, but 82games tracked clutch time stats for last season (4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points)...

    FG%: Turner .222....CJ .402....Dame .451
    eFG%: Turner .278....CJ .446....Dame .522 (regular season eFG%: CJ .506....Dame .519)
    draw foul rate: Turner 10.0%....CJ 8.0%....Dame 13.3%
    points/FGA: Turner 1.0....CJ 1.17....Dame 1.44

    sure doesn't look like CJ and Turner were better options at clutch time than Dame

    how does Dame compare to other 'elite' players

    points/FGA:

    Chris Paul 2.29 !!!
    Paul George 1.62 (assisted on 76% of his FG's vs Dame at 17%)
    Greek Freak 1.61 (39% assisted)
    Lebron 1.53 (same assist rate as Dame with a FG% of .558)
    Dame 1.44
    Harden 1.41
    Kyrie Irving 1.41
    Jimmy Butler 1.35
    Westbrook 1.09

    *****************************************

    well, last season CJ was elite as a spot-up shooter...in the 98th percentile. So if he dribbled less and went off screens more to shooting spots, his efficiency would probably improve

    but I agree that Dame and CJ just don't complement each other well at all. Think about the great complementary pairings: MJ & Pippen; Drexler & Porter; Shaq & Kobe; Duncan & Manu; Lebron & Wade; Lebron & Kyrie; Curry & Durant....even Westbrook and PG

    each pair had much different players with a much wider variety of skill-sets than Dame & CJ. Those pairings also also had two players who had all-star level talent and in most cases, elite talent. Dame & CJ are just too redundant to complement each other well. The only small guard pairing that was successful was Dumars and IT and both of those guys were elite on the defensive end and weren't saddled with a funky roster like Portland's
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  5. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    12,871
    Likes Received:
    16,168
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There’s really no reason why he couldn’t be used like Klay offensively. It’s great that he can dribble, and it even has its uses, but on this team? No thanks.
     
  6. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    5,733
    Likes Received:
    7,966
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Business Owner
    Location:
    North Plains
    Or the new one from today:

     
    dviss1 likes this.
  7. bobf

    bobf Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    426
    Likes Received:
    217
    Trophy Points:
    43
    That's good stuff! Ok, forget Turner. I know Dame's clutch stats are great from just watching. But specifically that last play of the game, ISO ball situation, where the defense kind of knows it's all Dame... that's when I think it drops way off for him. They rarely will give him a foul call at the rim and he doesn't create a great shot for himself that well. Again, no stats for that, just what seems to me.

    CP3... that's ridiculous! I think it's because he plays slow & keeps all his options open... floater.. layup... pull back.. alley oop... pass to shooter. Impossible to defend. Dame commits too much too early. But Dame is such a student of the game, high IQ, I think he will continue to figure these things out. Every year I think "this is Dame's ceiling" and every year he proves me wrong.
     
    dviss1 and BonesJones like this.
  8. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    42,910
    Likes Received:
    29,791
    Trophy Points:
    113
    in ref to IT and Dumars...they could hand check back then and IT used to stand on the guy he was guarding's toe when defending him so he couldn't explode to the rim.....he'd hide that move...they got away with playing a lot more physical defense than today's game allows. Hard to compare those eras
     
    TorturedBlazerFan and CupWizier like this.
  9. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    297
    Likes Received:
    610
    Trophy Points:
    93
    yeah...it may be that those Pistons teams were the first to really go all in on the 'if-you-foul-all-over-the-floor-on-every-single-possession-on-and-off-the-ball-the-officials-stop-calling-it' defense.
     
    BonesJones and riverman like this.
  10. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Messages:
    42,910
    Likes Received:
    29,791
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I really want him as a big man coach
    bill laimbeer points.jpg
     
    dviss1 and PtldPlatypus like this.
  11. Fez Von Savage

    Fez Von Savage スーパーバッド Zero Cool

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    25,317
    Likes Received:
    4,763
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Phone Psychic
    Location:
    Pacific NorthFRESH, US and A.
    We need an APB on Mr. McCollum.
     
  12. Labinot41

    Labinot41 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2017
    Messages:
    3,385
    Likes Received:
    3,019
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Fuck this brick Machine. I'm so done with him
     
  13. Fez Von Savage

    Fez Von Savage スーパーバッド Zero Cool

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    25,317
    Likes Received:
    4,763
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Phone Psychic
    Location:
    Pacific NorthFRESH, US and A.
    He's a clone of Monta Ellis right now.
     
  14. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    12,871
    Likes Received:
    16,168
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I wish. Ellis never made $25m.
     
    Jade Falcon and Fez Von Savage like this.
  15. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    12,871
    Likes Received:
    16,168
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Honest question, what has CJ improved since his most improved season?
     
  16. craigehlo

    craigehlo Elite Wing

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    5,475
    Likes Received:
    1,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Klay is 6' 7" and CJ is 6' 3". This is the reason he struggles against halfway decent defenses. We could use him like Klay, but he would still be meh.

    He's a shorter Jamal Crawford making max money.
     
    TBpup and Jade Falcon like this.
  17. craigehlo

    craigehlo Elite Wing

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    5,475
    Likes Received:
    1,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ellis had athleticism that CJ never had. Maybe he's Ellis after a couple knee surgeries.
     
  18. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    12,871
    Likes Received:
    16,168
    Trophy Points:
    113
    JJ Redick then.

    Points is, off the ball.
     
  19. craigehlo

    craigehlo Elite Wing

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    5,475
    Likes Received:
    1,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If only he could shoot like JJ. We wouldn't be having this thread.
     
  20. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2009
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    3,315
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    retired
    How many players made 25 mil back when Ellis was playing in his prime? That's like comparing apples to oranges. Also, McCollum is a better player than Ellis.
     

Share This Page