<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">I am really against taking Taft just due to the fact that he would be joining an already crowded front court </div> I don't think our front court is crowded; were losing Donyelle who was the first off the bench and played 25.3 mpg, those minutes need to be replaced somewhere and Loren Woods ad Aaron Williams are not the answer. I just don't think Chris Bosh (37.2), Hoffa (12.5), Bonner(18.9), and Pape Sow (9.4) can carry the load for us downlow. We need a tweener who can fill the PF/C preferably a banger/rebounder. We don't have to pick Taft (excelent size and potential) that was just a suggestion, but the Raps front court needs help. Be it with our first pick(#7) or later one(#16,#38) or even free agency.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Purple Fever:</div><div class="quote_post">With Granger and Felton, what you see is what you get. Their ceiling isn't high.</div> I dont think thats true with Felton at all. It might have merit when talking about Granger, but i think he could be a solid NBA player bordering on All-star, with good numbers for many years. Kind of like Jim Jackson, who many people think of being only an average player, when thats totally not the case. He would be a very solid number 16 pick, and i'd even consider him for the 7th pick, though i think the Hoffa experience would scare me from that. Graham i think is a bit less of a fit then Granger, though i'd love to have him at the 16 as well. Look for the Raps to make a move to grab Ewing from Duke.
At seven I still think that the Raptors should pick Felton, but what a team SHOULD do isn't always what a team does. I believe the Raptors will take a serious look at Gerald Green if he is still available at number seven. The draft is deeper in swingmen than point guards so it may pay off to get a point guard with the first pick and a swingman with the second. The way it looks now if the Raptors were to pick Green at seven, then the best available point guard at that point would probably be Jarret Jack where at 16 is a big of a reach. But if they pick Felton at seven then the best available swingman at 16 could be Granger, Webster, Villanueva, or Mccants. The fact that the draft is deeper at swingmen in my mind will influence the Raptors choice to pick Raymond Felton with their first pick, and pick one of the possible 11 swingmen that can go in the first with the second.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtKing:</div><div class="quote_post">At seven I still think that the Raptors should pick Felton, but what a team SHOULD do isn't always what a team does. I believe the Raptors will take a serious look at Gerald Green if he is still available at number seven. The draft is deeper in swingmen than point guards so it may pay off to get a point guard with the first pick and a swingman with the second. The way it looks now if the Raptors were to pick Green at seven, then the best available point guard at that point would probably be Jarret Jack where at 16 is a big of a reach. But if they pick Felton at seven then the best available swingman at 16 could be Granger, Webster, Villanueva, or Mccants. The fact that the draft is deeper at swingmen in my mind will influence the Raptors choice to pick Raymond Felton with their first pick, and pick one of the possible 11 swingmen that can go in the first with the second.</div> Well the Raps are looking long term, and they will select a person who they believe will be the best player at the posistion (from that rookie class) in the next 3-4 for years, rather than the instant future. That's where Gerald Green comes in. When you talk about potential, and who has the chance to be the best swingmen from this draft in 3-4 years, the choice is Green. There is a significant dropoff from him and the next players such as Granger, Wright or Villanueva(who I don't want at all). Where as at the PG spot, if you were to compare Jack and Felton in the future 3-4 years from now, they will likely be closer together, in terms as who is better overall, than Green and Villanueva/Granger/Wright/Webster(who I don't think will be there at 16). I'm hoping Green will be there at our first pick. That's all I can do for now. I just hope the Blazers pick a SF and decide that Outlaw or Monya is better for them at SG.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Drunkballer:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think our front court is crowded; were losing Donyelle who was the first off the bench and played 25.3 mpg, those minutes need to be replaced somewhere and Loren Woods ad Aaron Williams are not the answer. I just don't think Chris Bosh (37.2), Hoffa (12.5), Bonner(18.9), and Pape Sow (9.4) can carry the load for us downlow. We need a tweener who can fill the PF/C preferably a banger/rebounder. We don't have to pick Taft (excelent size and potential) that was just a suggestion, but the Raps front court needs help. Be it with our first pick(#7) or later one(#16,#38) or even free agency.</div>Personally I would rather select someone that I know will start right away or play significant minutes on our team rather than someone with questions about his attitude who plays a position we have filled. With that being said I really hope Green does not fall to us on draft day. That would make it very tough for Bab's to pass up a man of his talent. I just don't want another T-Mac situation on our hands and I'm not high on that kid in the 1st place. IMO he is worse than Mcgrady was coming out of highschool. How much worse? Just enough not to be picked at #7.
Chris Taft he's like Miami's Udonis Haslem, be sure that Taft can't play as a Center, i don't think that Bosh and Taft can play together. Don't forget that Marshall is more outside player that inside and post-up plays.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post"> I just don't want another T-Mac situation on our hands and I'm not high on that kid in the 1st place. IMO he is worse than Mcgrady was coming out of highschool. How much worse? Just enough not to be picked at #7.</div> Just out of curiosity why do you think Toronto could have a Tracy McGrady-like situation with Gerald Green?
Green is over rated. we need a PG and a swingman thats more blue collar hard worker type. Granger's that guy
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Proz4k:</div><div class="quote_post">Chris Taft he's like Miami's Udonis Haslem, be sure that Taft can't play as a Center, i don't think that Bosh and Taft can play together. Don't forget that Marshall is more outside player that inside and post-up plays.</div> If Chris Taft put up numbers like Udonis Haslem (10.1 pts 9.1 reb) i would say that would be a very successful draft pick. Taft can play centre he is a better leaper and has longer arms than Haslem not to mention 2 inches and 28 Lbs on Haslem. In terms of Marshall all I said is we need someone who can replace his minutes (25.1 mpg) not his clone. Taft can score and rebound it won't be the same fashion that Marshalls scored, but he still get simaler numbers's 12 pts 6.5 rips <div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post"> Personally I would rather select someone that I know will start right away or play significant minutes on our team rather than someone with questions about his attitude who plays a position we have filled </div> Felton wouldn't start right away for us, same with Gerald Green. Also look at what guys like Ben Gordon did off the Bench. I wouldn't say Hoffa has adequately filled the Centre Position its not like we have that on lock down. You guys rate the fact that he's a tweener as a negative, i think his versitility is a positive for a team that lacks depth in that area. Potential has to be one aspect the raptors look for in a player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Drake Remoray:</div><div class="quote_post">Just out of curiosity why do you think Toronto could have a Tracy McGrady-like situation with Gerald Green?</div>It just seems like the exact same situation we had with him. Draft a player right out of high school and develope him enough so he can get a fat contract with another team. It just doesn't smell right to me. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Drunkballer:</div><div class="quote_post">Felton wouldn't start right away for us, same with Gerald Green. Also look at what guys like Ben Gordon did off the Bench. I wouldn't say Hoffa has adequately filled the Centre Position its not like we have that on lock down. You guys rate the fact that he's a tweener as a negative, i think his versitility is a positive for a team that lacks depth in that area. Potential has to be one aspect the raptors look for in a player. </div>But at least Felton and Green wouldn't be in a battle with others for playing time. AND I disagree about Felton and can see him starting, not right away but probably midway during the season. Green would need a year or two before he play significant minutes in the league but if we drafted Felton we would possibly settle for another swingman like Danny Granger or even Hakim Warrick because Green would not be available by our next pick. The main reasons why I do not want Taft is because: 1) He plays similar positions as our youngsters Bosh, Bonner, Sow, Hoffa. Whether he is taking away time from them or they are playing more minutes it just doesn't seem like a good situation unless someone is traded. 2) Questions about his attitude. After the Vince Carter debacle I'm sure that Bab's would want to stay away from players "not giving it their all" or "turning it off" and that has been the case with Taft in his final season with Pitt. 3) There would be so many more options at our picks to choose from even if we picked him it wouldn't be a BAP (Best player available) situation. We wouldn't even fill our needs. It would just fill an unneccessary position and quite possibly waste our pick. 4) I'm just not high on the kid at all.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">It just seems like the exact same situation we had with him. Draft a player right out of high school and develope him enough so he can get a fat contract with another team. It just doesn't smell right to me. </div> I disagree. The main problem with T-Mac was that the coaching staff (Derrel Walker) didn't put any effort into teaching him how to be a pro. They kept crtisizing him and saying that he can't learn how to be the NBA while they forgot it's their job to do so. And that's why he didn't didn't develop as soon as he could have. But now, we have Sam, JT and English in our staff and they're very very good teachers and likable personalitites as well. So I don't a problem from this side. I agree with you on Taft though.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Purple Fever:</div><div class="quote_post">I disagree. The main problem with T-Mac was that the coaching staff (Derrel Walker) didn't put any effort into teaching him how to be a pro. They kept crtisizing him and saying that he can't learn how to be the NBA while they forgot it's their job to do so. And that's why he didn't didn't develop as soon as he could have. But now, we have Sam, JT and English in our staff and they're very very good teachers and likable personalitites as well. So I don't a problem from this side. I agree with you on Taft though.</div>I think the basic fact of the matter is this: He was on his way to superstardom and he just didn't want to play for Toronto and/or under the shadow of Vince Carter. I just don't want to see us developing a kid to the point where he is on the cusp of superstardom only to see him skip town after his contract is thru. Who is to say that Green would not want to play under Bosh's shadow when the time comes? With that being said, I highly doubt he will be available for us at the #7 selection. If he is then I could definitely see Bab's selecting him with no hesitation.
I'd take the chance anyways, we'd have his Bird rights, and really would be able to match any offer he got anyways. So if we wanted to keep him we could, and if he really wanted to go, their would always be the option to get something in a trade.
^I agree, if he's available we have to take him, even if he does turn out like t-mac, he just has to much potential to pass on. And it's not like he can leave whenever he wants.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Got DWade?:</div><div class="quote_post">^I agree, if he's available we have to take him, even if he does turn out like t-mac, he just has to much potential to pass on. And it's not like he can leave whenever he wants.</div> What makes everyone think that he has so much potnetial? Is it because he has so many correctable faults or is it because he's young? What makes 19-year-old Gerald Green's room to improve any greater than 20-year-old Raymond Felton's? This is a very weak High School class this year, and many people (including myself) are starting to see Martell Webster, not Gerald Green, as the premier High School recruit. Green is a big gamble and has a lot of developing to do. His game needs a lot of work before he can contribute on the NBA level, and he very well may leave Toronto once (or if) that work is done.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post"> The main reasons why I do not want Taft is because: 1) He plays similar positions as our youngsters Bosh, Bonner, Sow, Hoffa. Whether he is taking away time from them or they are playing more minutes it just doesn't seem like a good situation unless someone is traded. 2) Questions about his attitude. After the Vince Carter debacle I'm sure that Bab's would want to stay away from players "not giving it their all" or "turning it off" and that has been the case with Taft in his final season with Pitt. 3) There would be so many more options at our picks to choose from even if we picked him it wouldn't be a BAP (Best player available) situation. We wouldn't even fill our needs. It would just fill an unneccessary position and quite possibly waste our pick. 4) I'm just not high on the kid at all.</div> Okay it seems we have exhausted this argument. It comes down to me being high on Taft and you not. But i just wanted to respond to a few of your points: 1) Bosh, Bonner, Sow, Hoffa are our youngester but if you think thats an front court capable of leading us to the play-offs your being delusional. Bosh, Bonner, Sow, Hoffa all lack a back to the basket game. Furthermore, I would expect Felton to compete with Rafer and Alvin and perhaps cook and milt for minutes. 2) Attitude? Dwight Howard came into the league with questions about his attitude, so did Dajuan Wagner. My point is always gonna be hit or miss. But, from someone who watched alot of Pitt Panther's game this year i don't think Taft has a large attitude problem its just Krauser and Troutman were the leaders of that squad, Taft just needs to be more aggressive and as i said before i think Sam Mitchell would be the right fit for him. 3) Team Needs question? Again i just don't see how you think the raptors will be fine without adding depth to the front court. The reason i argue for drafting Taft with our the first pick is because i think there is a severe drop in Big Man talent after Bogut, Taft and Villanueva. And there are availble Pg's and Swingmen avaible in the latter half of the first round and the first third of the seconde round. some of them are Jarret Jack (pg) John Gilchrist (PG) Daniel Ewing (pg) Nate Robinson (PG) Monta Ellis (PG/SG) Danny Granger (SF) CJ Miles (sg) Joey Graham (Sf) Francisco Garcia(SG) Kennedy Winston(SG).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">What makes everyone think that he has so much potnetial? Is it because he has so many correctable faults or is it because he's young? What makes 19-year-old Gerald Green's room to improve any greater than 20-year-old Raymond Felton's? This is a very weak High School class this year, and many people (including myself) are starting to see Martell Webster, not Gerald Green, as the premier High School recruit. Green is a big gamble and has a lot of developing to do. His game needs a lot of work before he can contribute on the NBA level, and he very well may leave Toronto once (or if) that work is done.</div> Because Gerald Green isn't an undersized pg who had 3 other NBA first rounders (May,Williams and Mcants) to take defensive pressure off him. Felton as a freshman: 35.4 (mpg) 12.9(ppg) 4.1(Reb) 6.7(ast) 3.7(to) As a sophmore: 34.6 (mpg) 11.5(ppg) 4.0(Reb) 7.1(ast) 3.4(to) As a Junior: 31.7 (mpg) 12.9(ppg) 4.3(Reb) 6.9(ast) 3.6(to) To me those are numbers of someone who has topped out not someone who i chalk full of potential. Also i don't think felton has the range on the NBA 3.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Drunkballer:</div><div class="quote_post">2) Attitude? Dwight Howard came into the league with questions about his attitude, so did Dajuan Wagner.</div> Huh? Dwight Howard? Naw, the kid came into the league as a pose relgious Christian boy. He has the attitude every coach wants a young player to have...No attitude problems at all.
Dwight Howard bad attitude? I don't know if that was a mistake, or where you heard that, maybe Qyntel Woods or I don't even know, a lot of other guys, but Howard was the total opposite of that.
Webster is not as talented as Green. At least not in the games I watched for both. With that alone, I'll take Green.
