Stern accuses players of bad-faith bargaining NEW YORK – The NBA labor talks took on a poisonous tone Monday, with each side lobbing rhetoric about the other not being willing to negotiate. The coup de grace came shortly before 6 p.m., from commissioner David Stern. Standing in a midtown hotel lobby after a nearly three-hour farce of a bargaining session – the first between the two sides since owners imposed a lockout on July 1 – Stern fielded one last question in a terse and decidedly glum media session. After saying, “I don’t feel optimistic about the players’ willingness to engage in a serious way,” Stern was asked if he believes the players are bargaining in good faith, or not. The grim-faced commissioner thought about it for several seconds and said, “I would say not. Thank you.” And with those comments, Stern’s most direct public assault on the players during the more than two years of bargaining, the NBA lockout took its next step toward all-out legal warfare. The National Basketball Players Association already has filed a charge with the National Labor Relations Board alleging, among other things, that the owners have failed to bargain in good faith. The players’ hope is that this charge will result in a formal complaint from the NLRB, and then, an injunction from a federal judge reinstating the terms of the previous collective bargaining agreement. Short of decertification by the union, this would be the quickest path for the players to legally pressure the owners to back down from their demands of massive salary cuts as a cure for $300 million annual losses by the league. With Stern firing back Monday that it’s the players who are not bargaining in good faith, he set the stage for a possible counter-charge by the league with the NLRB on the subject of good-faith bargaining. Such a legal strategy, which league officials would not confirm Monday as being on the table, could blunt the impact of the players’ charge and – more importantly – drag the lockout precariously into territory where it would be impossible to save all of the 2011-12 season. As a point of reference, the NFL owners filed a similar charge with the NLRB in February, and that sport’s lockout ended before the board even finished investigating it. NBPA attorney Larry Katz has said he is hopeful that the NLRB will rule on the union’s complaint in the next 30-60 days. Training camps are supposed to open in about 60 days. “I think it’s fair to say that we’re in the same place as we were 30 days ago,” Stern said. “And we agreed we’d be in touch to schedule some additional meetings.” Asked why that would be necessary, given the lack of progress, Stern said, “There’s always a reason for more meetings because that’s the only way you’ll ultimately get to a deal, at the negotiating table. You never know, but right now we haven’t seen any movement.” Earlier, NBPA president Derek Fisher accused Stern, deputy commissioner Adam Silver and the owners present Monday – San Antonio’s Peter Holt and Minnesota’s Glen Taylor – of saying one thing in the negotiating sessions and publicly and delivering quite another message by refusing to alter their proposal. “I think Peter and Glen Taylor, Mr. Stern, Adam Silver are articulating certain things in the room, expressing their desire to get a deal done,” Fisher said. “But where their proposal lies makes it hard to believe that.” Informed of Fisher’s comments, which echo the NLRB charge about failing to bargain in good faith, stern said, “He’s entitled to draw his own conclusion. We have absolutely the opposite take on it.” While Fisher expressed optimism about “restarting this process,” Stern was asked what may have occurred Monday that gave him encouragement. “Nothing,” he said. The two sides agree on one thing, if nothing else: They’ll attempt to schedule at least one bargaining session in the next couple of weeks, with the ultimate goal of engaging in talks for consecutive days before Sept. 1. At that point, the league will be entering what essentially is a two-week window when it must begin contemplating the postponement of training camps and the cancelation of preseason games. http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/31036764
I still, for now, support the owners. I maintain there currently an unfair advantage towards the players and the owners (who assume all the risk) are entitled to expect a profit every season. I was for the NFL players, but here I support ownership.
i really dont think they are entitled to a profit, maybe they should actually earn one, i mean, they do have control over their teams finances right?...
If you cut Stern from $23M to $8M, you save $15M/30 teams, which is half a million per team. You can easily find a replacement for $8M a year. Actually, you could easily find one for a tenth of that, and save each owner another quarter of a mil every year. Owners aren't interested in the obvious.
China may prohibit out clauses, so that players will have to go to Europe, not China. http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/31370/what-if-china-is-no-option-at-all Is this an English-speaking site about Chinese basketball? http://www.niubball.com/2011/07/cba-wont-allow-nba-players-to-sign-out-clauses/
Basketball is popular, but it isn't that popular though. I don't see why small city fans would bother showing up to games when they don't show up to them now. Basically we're a watered down Euro league in your scenario, and many teams were already having problems selling tickets. The quality of the league is drastically lower, lower prices don't address that.
Fan attendance is plenty fine for a start up league. I agree the first 2-3 years will be tough, but that's how every league starts.
Blazer news dated July 7-- I've seen rumors, but no firm statement like this till now, that the Blazers want Jon Diebler to play in Europe. http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/161053049
It depends on how you define successful, the league would probably have to contract. More Mom and Pop operation, overall a downgrade. Plus a lot of great college/highschool basketball players would go overseas. The best soccer players in the world play in Europe even if it is thousands of miles away.
I think you grossly over estimate the amount of players that are allowed to play on foreign teams. The vast majority would stay here. Let me give you an example. I know Tayshan Prince's cousin who graduated from TN last year. He player 2 years at U of AZ before transferring. He started at TN and was considered a potential late second round pick. He had some free agent offers but rather went to a Euro team. He makes $40K per season- as do most of the Euro players from here. There are team & league quotas- only so many foreign players. Many of the arenas they play in are the size of West Linn high's gym. Sure, there are some good teams with good areans, but those are few and far between. Their will be no mass exodus because there can't be. And there's also this- With no competition at all here, teams will be well stocked with college stars, some foreign players, vets who can't (or won't) play overseas... Will it be great ball? Not for a few years, but I liken it to the AFL when they started. There will be enough teams and talent to make the new league respectable. There's a lot of talent here- much more than you may realize. If it comes to a new league, I think all will work out.
Now the news is that individual Chinese teams may sneak around their basketball association's rule with a sneaky wording of the contract's "out" clause. http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/31124023
This is huge...... http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...lt_Hunter_Fisher_And_Klempner_Set_For_Meeting
Doesn't look that huge to me. http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/stor.../08/30/nba_union_set_to_meet_for_second_time/ Looks like more of the same BS by both sides.
I understand why HCP might view every little development hopefully. He is emotionally invested in not losing his income this year. That video is weird yet creative. Why don't you try imitating it, HCP?
Nah, I was just saying it is huge, because they haven't met in a month....... it is just the top 6 people involved at the meeting........ and because Stern said something has to be done no later then Labor Day.
It is going to take a lot longer than that. I bet the Union is just starting to realize what a tough economy we are in.
im with you hcp! the nfl was fucked too until all of the sudden they made alot of progress out of the blue if they are meeting, that will always be a good thing
Sources: NBA, union to meet again Officials from the NBA and the players' union will meet again Wednesday in New York City, according to sources close to the situation. The meeting will be only the third since the league locked out its players on July 1. But if Wednesday's meeting is productive, sources said the sides are expected to pick up the pace and come together again Thursday and perhaps Friday. The meeting will include only a handful of representatives from each side, as was the case last week when the parties met for six hours. Commissioner David Stern, deputy commissioner Adam Silver and San Antonio Spurs owner Peter Holt, the chairman of the owners' labor relations committee, will represent the league. Union director Billy Hunter, counsel Ron Klempner and president Derek Fisher will attend for the players. While the gulf between the two sides remains huge, sources say the tone of last week's meeting was productive and provided at least a small degree of optimism that the season could be salvaged. With roughly two weeks remaining before training camps would have to be canceled, the sense of urgency to get a deal done has picked up on both sides. Chris Broussard covers the NBA for ESPN The Magazine. Follow Chris Broussard on Twitter: @chris_broussard
