The Raptors should be an example to us of how to build a better team

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Natebishop3, May 25, 2019.

  1. BonesJones

    BonesJones We got shooters.

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    36,974
    Likes Received:
    29,030
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    And hes not all that good when he does play.
     
  2. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Is this team for real? Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    23,996
    Likes Received:
    25,894
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Oh, I have...I was exaggerating for effect.
     
  3. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    14,809
    Likes Received:
    14,420
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Oregon City, OR
    So, if we're talking about team-building, as far as I'm concerned forget about a deal for a Kawhi Leonard-type player. Somebody find me a Draymond Green to add to the Blazers' roster next season. Maybe one with a little less a-hole in his character, but one that can distribute the ball, rebound, shoot from distance, post up...yeah, get me that guy.
     
  4. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers Ride the REmerge

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2008
    Messages:
    12,674
    Likes Received:
    6,614
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    PDX
    Zach Collins will be looking deep inside this summer to find him.
     
  5. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    14,809
    Likes Received:
    14,420
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Oregon City, OR
    Zach's going to have to really search within himself to see if he can grab Green's play-making ability by the ears and pull it out. I think that ability in Green is what allows Curry to play off the ball so much and keeps teams from doing Lillard-type doubles on him all game.
     
  6. BigGameDamian

    BigGameDamian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2012
    Messages:
    16,402
    Likes Received:
    4,705
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Blake Griffin is 30 and often injured with a huge contact. Neil will go after one of these two players. You have to take the gamble at moving the needle at some point.
     
  7. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    10,762
    Likes Received:
    17,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Business Owner
    Location:
    North Plains
    The difference is when Griffin is healthy, he's still an All-NBA level player. Kevin Love won't ever sniff the All-NBA teams again in his career.
     
  8. joeBlazers

    joeBlazers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    1,437
    Likes Received:
    1,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have not played lots of basket ball. But I'm really curious about this.
    How hard would it be for a player like Zach or Moe to add passing skills to their abilities in a summer?
    3 hour work per week for 3 months with a coach? Is it like shooting, where on can shoot 500 shots per week/month?
     
  9. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    12,358
    Likes Received:
    14,356
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Baby Daddy
    Location:
    Chasing my kids
    I'd say players can add things, like being a better passer or whatever, but you can always tell the guys who are naturally talented at something vs the mechanical guys. I'll say it like this. Lebron was always kind of a bad shooter, especially 15-18 feet and out, but he's worked on it a lot, to where he's become a very adequate shooter, but when you watch him you can tell it's very mechanical, and not really a natural motion for him. I think the only major downside to that is, when his mechanics break or he can't step into a shot like he normally would, you can see it throws him off completely. Whereas a guy who is a natural passer and that motion comes easily, they can have part of their mechanic's broken off and have the natural control to still be competent.

    Keeping the passing example, Lebron's naturally a great passer and has great court vision, even if the normal mechanical two hand pass, or whatever is taken away he's so natural at it, he can find ways to get the ball to the right spot. They can all definitely work at it and get better at it, Zach's already a pretty good passer, with work he could be a great passer.
     
    hoopsjock likes this.
  10. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    10,762
    Likes Received:
    17,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Business Owner
    Location:
    North Plains
    I don't think there is a way to just become a good passer. Maybe if you changed your mind set a little bit but overall you either have the skill or you don't. Now the question is do certain players have that ability in them and they just aren't being used correctly or are they just not that good of passers. Both Plumlee and Nurk showed huge jumps in their assist numbers when they came over here but I don't think it's because they all of a sudden became better passers it's more that they were trusted to pass out of the top of the key more in the Blazers' system.

    To be a good passer you need 3 things: vision, anticipation, and a quick response time. None of those are really teachable. This is not only just seeing a guy open or cutting to the basket but also knowing where your guys are when you're not looking directly at them. Understanding the game to where if you see a defender out of position and processing immediately who he's supposed to be guarding and where you can find that guy. You have to play with guys that are in sync with you too. I can be the best passer ever but if no one moves/cuts/slashes then it doesn't matter. In the NFL you hear the phrase "pass a guy open" a lot. A good passer can lead a guy to a spot where he gets a good shot.
     
    Minstrel likes this.
  11. joeBlazers

    joeBlazers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    1,437
    Likes Received:
    1,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm not sure I agree with you guys about the inability to drastically add additional skills. We have seen guys work on the 3 point shots, midrange game, back to the basket skills, ... etc. A typical example was Hakeem Olajuwon. When he came to the league, he was a shot blocker. Later in his career he became a low post assassin. I doubt a guy like Siakam was so talented when coming out of college. But now, I can see him do things Aminu/Moe can only dream of. So, I believe guys can add these skills. His coach even recognized, he had been a gym rat.
    My point is ... if Zach Collins wants to be our Draymond, ... he needs to become a gym rat and start putting in the work.
     
    UKRAINEFAN likes this.
  12. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    12,358
    Likes Received:
    14,356
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Baby Daddy
    Location:
    Chasing my kids
    Leading guys and knowing where they want the ball is also chemistry, and playing together a lot. I think Nurk’s passing has gotten better here because he’s gotten accustomed to playing with these guys
     
    tester551 and hoopsjock like this.
  13. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    10,762
    Likes Received:
    17,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Business Owner
    Location:
    North Plains
    True, but that doesn't explain the "Nurk Fever" stretch where he literally just got thrown out there without much practice time.
     
    TorturedBlazerFan likes this.
  14. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    12,358
    Likes Received:
    14,356
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Baby Daddy
    Location:
    Chasing my kids
    Im having a real hard time remembering but I remember him being used mostly as a roller in the PNR, and I remember some passing but not nearly as much as this years Nurk who I actually think was the teams 2nd best passer.
     
  15. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    10,762
    Likes Received:
    17,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Business Owner
    Location:
    North Plains
    You listed things that are all improvable though. Shooting, range, post moves, ball-handling, floaters, step backs, and pull ups off the dribble are all things that a player can improve on immensely if they put in the work. You asked specifically about passing which I don't think is in the same category as those things.
     
    tester551 likes this.
  16. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    12,358
    Likes Received:
    14,356
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Baby Daddy
    Location:
    Chasing my kids
    You see it a lot with shooting, and sometimes ball handling, but I dont think you see it as much with passing.
     
  17. joeBlazers

    joeBlazers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    1,437
    Likes Received:
    1,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Siakam had 5 assists the other night and 5 assists the first game. Ok, he played 40 minutes in each of the games ...Natural passer? I doubt it.
    Now, if you don't believe Zach can be the guy. Is there a guy out there we can trade for, who can play the role?
    My frustration with Stotts is that, Dame came out of college a better shooter than passer. So, we can run him off screens ... CJ can handle the ball. It doesn't have to be a BIG.
     
  18. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    10,683
    Likes Received:
    4,307
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's very true. They could address the issue by bringing in a guy who can actually come off the bench and play PG. Curry is (was) a SG and Turner wasn't a solution in the eyes of anybody but Olshey.
     
  19. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    21,978
    Likes Received:
    7,631
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    User Interface Designer
    Location:
    Hello darkness, my old friend
    Are you asking about being a good passer or getting a solid number of assists? You can improve your assist numbers to an extent by being willing to move the ball and learning the standard reads. You can make the easy, obvious passes which, depending on the system and the defense, can certainly lead to baskets--but that's different from being able to make the passes that the defenses can't anticipate, that cross them up and create opportunities that didn't exist without your vision.

    Collins and Harkless can make the basic passes, and maybe can improve their ability there a bit, but they don't handle the ball as much as Siakam and shouldn't on a team with Lillard, McCollum and Nurkic. Nor do the Blazers play a particularly motion-heavy offense like the Warriors or Raptors, where basic passes can lead to easy scores. So their assist numbers are going to be low.
     
    BonesJones likes this.
  20. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,847
    Likes Received:
    3,745
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nic Batum averaged 5 assists a game for 3 straight seasons and the offensive system, and motion, was pretty much the same as it is now. And Batum did this while being generally a poor dribbler and driver; his handles were only average, at best. He also accomplished it while have an extremely low usage rate of around 16%. He didn't hold the ball or stall the offense like Turner always does. But Batum had really good court vision and made quick decisions. Olshey's decisions to go from Batum to Turner was horrible (even though it took a year). Further, the individual transactions: the trade of Batum then the signing of Turner were each one failure

    I think there are too many excuses being offered for Portland's flaws and weaknesses (not saying that's what you're doing). Both the roster construction and the schemes should have been better to this point, in some cases, a lot better
     
    BonesJones, B-Roy and oldmangrouch like this.

Share This Page