@TBpup asked for "smallish, very good offensively, below average defensively back-court that was very successful." Obviously most SGs are around 6'5 and higher, so smallish is hard to find. But the guys I pointed out were all good offensively and generally shit defensively.
he said "smallish" which means CJ, and eliminates just about all those combos. If you add another qualification, that being both on near max-deals and both leading the team in usage, and both being options 1a, and 1b, there are no examples. I can only think of two small back courts that had any real success. One was Thomas and Dumars. But c'mon, Thomas was a 12-time all-star. and 4 times was 1st team all-NBA, and twice more was 2nd team. He was also solid on defense on the best defensive team in the NBA. Dumars was a 6 time all-star and made 1st team defense all-NBA 5 times. It's laughable to even think Dame/CJ compare in any way the other small back court, and they won a championship, is ironically a Blazer one: Dave Twardzick and Lionell Hollins. Of course, they were down the pecking order of a team with Walton and Lucas. And Hollins was an all-NBA defender; and finally, the NBA has changed over 40 years
I go back to our best lineup of the Dame Era: Lillard Matthews Batum Aldridge Lopez What made them so good? When they needed to lockdown on Defense they could, repeatedly. I want that again.
Agreed, just that it hasn't been done doesn't mean it can't. But we've seen enough iterations of Dame/CJ not even approaching contender status that is seems very unlikey by this point, that will change. As for GState, it wasn't so much an innovative mind as it was Curry becoming a mid-40% 3-pt shooter jacking up an average of over 10 '3's per game. Neither Dame nor CJ are anywhere close to that type of efficiency. Dame/CJ .523 and .512 respectively in eFG this year.....Curry is a staggering .625...and it is not just this year that there is a large gap. It also took them getting rid of duo smallish guard Monta Ellis and replacing him with a 6'7" 3nD specialist.
Detroit is actually an interesting team for CJ. It sounds like their owner is still in win now mode and not willing to accept that he needs to blow it up. If that's the case they desperately need a lead guard to go with their Griffin/Drummond front line. They currently have the 9th pick in the draft. Looking at the standings they are going to land somewhere in the 6-10 range if they miss the playoffs or the 15-17 range if they make it. Getting that pick along with a Luke Kennard (admittedly horrible so far but could in theory have similar shooting numbers to CJ) would be something to consider. The only problem is they don't have big expiring contracts so we'd have to find a 3rd team for Reggie Jackson. Would Orlando take him and the lesser of our two 1sts for Gordon? Would Atlanta take him for Bazemore? Or would they do it for Bazemore, Prince, and our 2020 pick?
If it weren't for Jerry West/Kerr, they would have Kevin Love instead of Klay Thompson with Monta Ellis as Steph's backcourt mate. Takes some vision. Back in 2011, no one saw this three point barrage coming. You just didn't win without legit post threats. Nash and D'Antoni tried damn hard in Phoenix but could never get over the hump. Who knew all you needed was more volume? And I disagree with the notion that we have tried multiple iterations with Dame/CJ. We've just done the same thing for three years. We don't know what someone outside of Neil/Terry can come up with.
I'm not opposed to trading CJ. I'm just opposed to trading him for an average PF. Whether you (the general "you") like CJ or not, he's an above average SG. He's not being utilized effectively, which may make you think he's not - but he is. The league has always been dominated by wing talent (either SG or SF). We're already weak at SF. Weakening ourselves at SG (thus gutting all wing talent on the team) in order for a slight bump at PF - the least impactful position in the NBA - is not a good use of our assets.
Exactly. Who cares what happened in the past. This is a different NBA with more of an emphasis on 3 point shooting. (and different rules on D) Cleveland and GS have dominated the finals the last few years. Put either Durant or LeBron on the Blazers and I guarantee they would have just as good of a chance to win it all as anyone else. But even then you still need two other starters and a bench. Their combined size is not the issue. Just fucking get a big guard who can play with both of them. 96 minutes per game is enough time to keep all three happy. I think that was Neil's hope with ET. Good idea, wrong guy.
We need someone who can think long term. I said earlier today the NBA is gonna be dominated by big, versatile guards/forwards who can lead offenses. I would have given up nearly our whole team for Luka last summer. Ben Simmons is another. We need one of these guys.
Yeah you have to be able to shoot from deep these days if you are a guard in the NBA. Not only for Terry but for most teams. So yeah....pretty wrong. He is still not a bad player. Just a bad contract.
Guys Simmons, and Giannis need to be surrounded by outside shooters. So yeah they would fit great with CJ and Dame. Atlanta was idiotic for passing on Luka. Anyone who watched his film could see that. But those guys are not in every draft. So how long term can you go? And CJ is not going to get one of them in return. Teams who are in position to draft one already suck so an expensive vet does not do them any good. They need to go young.
All this Gordon talk is awesome and all but what about the Ross part, he’s not a scrub. However I completely agree adding a 1 would be stupid and a deal breaker.
