Everyone's saying MJ makes his teammates better, but no one says how. Has anyone read "When Nothing Else Matters" By Michael Leahy? It's an objective account of MJ's last two seasons with the Wizards and that reflects his true personality and how he 'makes' his teammates better. I don't know what Kobe is like so I can't compare. But to keep things short, if the Lakers were winning as much as the Bulls (whether that be by Kobe dropping 50 everywhere or his teammates step it up a few levels) then we'd have a good debate. That's all it comes down to- how many wins. Btw, those stats posted by Shapecity are interesting, but I *heard* that Odom isn't happy playing with Kobe. I got this impression from the Lakers forum, Heat forum, and Bill Simmons' articles on espn.com.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Need4Sheed:</div><div class="quote_post">You can add 1 more game to Iverson.</div> You can also add 1 more as well. For Iverson, that makes 8 career regular season 50+ point games. For his career, he now has twelve 50+ point games. This is a pretty amazing feat granted that he is only 6'0 (listed), but I wouldn't be surprised if he was 5'11. If Iverson can have a career total of twenty 50+ point games, I think his mission would be accomplished as far as that goes. Having just five 50+ point games was probably hard enough with his size and stature, but yet he has twelve, very amazing if you ask me.
No Next Jordan Theres no way of comparing Jordan to your kobes and lebrons. They played in different eras and different styles. When jordan was playing he was against some of the leagues strongest players in David Robinson, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, These guys were no push overs. Kobes and Lebrons play in a different era and play a different style. He didnt win 6 titles for nothing either. You can also count in the MVP's, Scoring Titles, Dunk Titles. Did i say 6 titles????? Lebron does remind me alot of jordan but jordan just has this style when he goes for a drive while lebron is more about strength but i do admit lebron is a good player. Id like to see him give more assists though. Kobe and assist. DONT GO TOGETHER IN THE SAME SENTANCE. he is just to much of a hog. drove shaq ( one of the most dominant centers ever) and Phil Jackson (The best coach in the 90's) out of LA where they had a winning combination to give 2 veterans (Karl Malone and Gary Payton) Who were unlucky enough to have played in the same era as Michael Jordan. Everyone makes Jordan assumptions. At one time they were calling Christi baby jordan. YES THEY WERE I HAVE THE NBA ACTION FROM 1993 were they say it. Grant hill- flopped. Penny Hardaway- Looked like a good prospect but couldnt beat michael. Everyone compared to Jordan hasnt lived up to their full name as the next great one and has flopped in one way or another. Thats why i hope Lebron keeps his head and focuses on the title instead of wether he has the ball for 48 mintues a night. Jordan greatest of all time. Full Stop. Their Will NEVER be another person like him. No matter how much u want to argue that. Spida#23
stupid Worst Thread Ever. Jordan was not defined soley by scoring. He was a great scorer but he was defined by his abilities to make his teammates better, win games and do what no other player has ever done, make casual interested and want to watch him play. No, LeBron will never get 40 50+ point games but he plays in a different era when scoring is down so a 50 point game is much rarer. In 1993 25 of the NBAs 27 teams averaged over 100 ppg. In 2003 only 3 did.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Jwohl:</div><div class="quote_post">Worst Thread Ever. Jordan was not defined soley by scoring. He was a great scorer but he was defined by his abilities to make his teammates better, win games and do what no other player has ever done, make casual interested and want to watch him play. No, LeBron will never get 40 50+ point games but he plays in a different era when scoring is down so a 50 point game is much rarer. In 1993 25 of the NBAs 27 teams averaged over 100 ppg. In 2003 only 3 did.</div> This is true but, the 90's were not a whole lot different from now. Other than Jordan, the top players would average high 20's to very early 30's. Jordan shattered that and averaged much more than that and a 50 point game would be expected on the regular. Again James will be a great player but, not ever in the realm of Michael Jordan. No one will ever reach that untill I come into the league. J/K
Never was, never will be another Jordan! There may be a day someone will come along and be the man <u>next to </u> the man but no one will ever be the next Jordan. All anyone can hope for is a distant second. Count them 6 trophies all on his back.
although you can argue kb8's trophies against my opinion...it does seem to me that he's a little too concerned with his own image, and his own numbers then with winning and being part of a team. jordan dished to paxon and kerr for game winning shots...i dont see kobe dishing to chucky atkins if the situation were reversed. christmas day was a perfect example...everyone watching knew he was going to take that shot...no matter how ugly it was...and that was essentially a meaningless game and screw the next jordan anyways... i wanna know why more people arent talking about the next benoit benjamin? he was a mediocre player at best...but boy did he ever have a gigantic posse. a legendary posse infact
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting BullsFan4Ever:</div><div class="quote_post">Never was, never will be another Jordan! There may be a day someone will come along and be the man <u>next to </u> the man but no one will ever be the next Jordan. All anyone can hope for is a distant second. Count them 6 trophies all on his back.</div> Doesnt seem to distant for some players if you ask me. :suspicous Somebody lock this thread up its pointless and a waste of time.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Billa_Bong:</div><div class="quote_post">Tell me anywhere in my post that I said anyone would break the record, I actually said no one would because the fact he is Micheal Jordan, I was stating the players listed still have career left in them and they can get more 50+ games than they already have. Why did you just assume that I would say Kobe would break the record? Kind of lame you didn't even read my post, it is kind of a insult not to read someones who post and than flame them for somehting they didnt even say.</div> Sorry man, i probably meant to hit reply on someone else's post I obviously was not trying to reply to your post.
I just love these Jordan vs. everybody debates that usually turn into Jordan vs. Kobe arguments. For all those who are of the opinion "why don't we just allow these players to be themselves and not compare them," the answer is simple. It's fun to compare them, to pull up obscure statistics to prove points, to prove how much better someone is than someone else, especially when those being compared are great players. Let's not forget that the reason we are comparing them is because they are great players and it's all in fun. I don't think there are any threads in this forum comparing Sam Bowie to Rodney Rogers. That being said... It is a considerable achievement that Jordan has scored 50 points 37 times during his career. He is the best player to play the game ever... so far. I don't think anyone disputes that, and I really don't think there is any question. But people seem to forget that Jordan and Kobe are of different generations, basketball wise and arguable agewise. "Deception" made a very good point a number of posts back urging all of us to consider the variables that existed in Jordan's NBA and todays NBA before we compare the players. In a previous post in this thread, someone went through great pains to list the big men of the past vs the big men of the present, and though I'm not entirely sure of the purpose, I tentatively believe that the person wanted to demonstrate that the teams in the past were better during Jordan's time than those of today. I admit that big men as a whole in the past were better than the bigs we have today, but the league is no longer centered around big men today, and that's where the comparison falls apart. Jordan wasn't guarded by big men. Jordan didn't spend time posting Charles Barkley or Olajuwon. I think in comparing Jordan to todays players we take a look at what Jordan would have to face today. As a means of comparison, if Jordan were to face our present teams, this season, he'd have to go up against Kobe, Tracy, Paul Pierce, Vince, Ray Allen, Lebron, Michael Redd, Larry Huges, Iverson, Jason Richardson etc... To maintain the integrity of this list, I won't even name the PGs and SFs whom he would have to guard and who might guard him. For all those who would say that today's talent is diluted, lets apply that strictly to the center position, because the threats at SG and SF have evolved and Jordan would face more of a challenge at those positions today than he faced in his time. We can't set definite prerequisites and say this person is better than this person because they did this. The game has changed, the teams have changed, and the dynamics have changed. The league is more SG/SF focused today, (thanks to Jordan). Kobe's career hasn't ended yet, the man is only 26, and I doubt he's reached his peak yet. Let's be fair and not let our dislike for any one player drive our arguments, on Kobe's side or on Jordan's side. Let's condiser all the variables.
funny how people seem to forget what michael jorden did for the game, kobe isnt even in the same arena with jordan
I think everyone here agrees that no one will be the next Michael Jordan, not Kobe, not Iverson not mrj18 () No one! I don't even know what we're arguing about here to be honest...
Kobe vs Jordan, ahh the great debate.... Who would you rather have taking the last shot to win the finals? no question...his Airness would be the answer for 90% of the voters. It would be 98% if Laker fans werent allowed to vote. The main difference between the 2 of them is not their game, its what Jordan did for basketball. All the players now grew up watching #23 do his thing, ie- winning championships (6, but should be more if he didnt retire the 1st time), promoting the sport, be the ambassador for basketball, a role model (similar to Tiger Woods and Golf). The same cannot be said about Kobe. Would you want your kids growing up to be Michael or Kobe?
It seems that people don't have issues with Kobe's game as much as they have issues with his personality, which, depending on which state you're from, can vary. When people compare Jordan to the Kobes and the Carters, it goes even beyond how good a player these men are and were. Jordan played ball in an era when the NBA was dying. Magic was getting old, Bird was on his way out. Kareem was on his way out. Jordan revitalized the game, made it exciting again, and brought in new fans. Basketball is in a different era now, and I doubt any one player can generate that kind of excitement for the game like Jordan did. It was sort of a perfect storm for him. He was at the right place at the right time, and his legacy will reflect that. In this sense, there will never be another Jordan. The era for another Jordan has passed. At the same time, I won't shortchange some of these younger players. The ones with the tenacity, hunger and skills to get better, learn more and more about the game, and to push themselves. The simple fact that we are comparing them to Jordan speaks volumes. Oh, and just to rile some of you guys up, Kobe may never reach to Jordan's level, but he'll probably go down as the second best 2 guard to ever play that game. I'm sure someone's gonna object, but that the reason this forum exists. By the way, G-Unit, I realize that you may not view Kobe as a good role model, for good reason (off court). But do you really view Jordan as a role model? Lemme know, cause I have some interesting info for you.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Future Dynasty:</div><div class="quote_post">It seems that people don't have issues with Kobe's game as much as they have issues with his personality, which, depending on which state you're from, can vary. When people compare Jordan to the Kobes and the Carters, it goes even beyond how good a player these men are and were. Jordan played ball in an era when the NBA was dying. Magic was getting old, Bird was on his way out. Kareem was on his way out. Jordan revitalized the game, made it exciting again, and brought in new fans. Basketball is in a different era now, and I doubt any one player can generate that kind of excitement for the game like Jordan did. It was sort of a perfect storm for him. He was at the right place at the right time, and his legacy will reflect that. In this sense, there will never be another Jordan. The era for another Jordan has passed. At the same time, I won't shortchange some of these younger players. The ones with the tenacity, hunger and skills to get better, learn more and more about the game, and to push themselves. The simple fact that we are comparing them to Jordan speaks volumes. Oh, and just to rile some of you guys up, Kobe may never reach to Jordan's level, but he'll probably go down as the second best 2 guard to ever play that game. I'm sure someone's gonna object, but that the reason this forum exists. By the way, G-Unit, I realize that you may not view Kobe as a good role model, for good reason (off court). But do you really view Jordan as a role model? Lemme know, cause I have some interesting info for you.</div> What you got? Divorced? Extra marital affairs?
Yeah G-Unit, there are rumors about Jordan's philandering (Juanita Jordan hired a private investigator to follor Michael around for 4 years. But in addition to that, there's the gambling and gambling debts, running up in the millions of dollars. And Jordan's also had issues with teammates. He even punched Steve Kerr out during a Bulls practice over a disageement. Look what he did to poor Kwame Brown, lol. For some reason, people tend to think Jordan was a saint, but he had his issues like everyone else. Shoot, the only NBA player who may never have had any issues is A.C. Green.
this stat doesnt end the debate to me, it just shows he took a ton of a shots (especially before pippen) and was allowed to score 50, where most players have to play in a team concept and pass the ball around more lol.. (except iverson)
Mj is the king of the mountain and no matter how much kobe or lebron try to get up their they wont get up. its called Mt Jordan! Jordan would beat anyone at their prime in his prime. Take away his ankle injuries and retirements he may have broken the celtics dynasty. maybe even smashed. He made the game enjoyable for everyone. theirs a reason why everyone wants the number 23. He may have had some gambling debts and all that but i dont care what happens off the court. as soon as that person steps on the court everything else is erased. Kobe takes to many shots and is consernd wether he touches the ball enough times a night more then focusing on puttin ur head down and winning in any means necessary. KOBE +ASSIST=NON EXISTANT when i watch him. Thats why i think Lebron has a better chance. Points, Assists, Rebounds. Sounds familiar? Though Lebron needs to really work hard on that shot. He can shoot but he needs to work on that part of his game because aint NOBODY (maybe shaq) is gona wana get in his way when he is headin to da rim when he takes off. As long as he keeps his head he will definetly be the jordan type player off this decade but not as good as Jordan was. Jordan could do everything. Defend, Shoot, Pass, Rebound. Thats why he is #1 and until cloning comes legal we wont eva see someone like him again LOL
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Real Deal:</div><div class="quote_post"> Duncan or Hakeem? Hakeem </div> This is pretty debatable! Hakeem was great but TIM DUNCAN has been the best player in the NBA since well "BULLS # 23 Retired", and he has won 2 rings (same amount as the Dream), moreover, let's not forget that Duncan is still relatively young and he has not reached his prime yet
