OT The U.S. has wasted over $14 trillion on warfare over the past three decades

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by SlyPokerDog, Jul 30, 2017.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Those studies include all those costs. Not just all the money appropriated for direct costs, which is far less than the $1.1T.

    $14T is a completely made up and imaginary number, with no basis in fact.
     
  2. lawai'a

    lawai'a Well-Known Member

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  3. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    your statement is nothing more than speculation......which is fine...but you harp on Obama's debt with no reference to the cost of war during his term relating to the debt....as if they were separated ......you seem to have no problem with Trump's bankruptcies however....and he definitely used debt to solve his problems ..the govt spent over half a million dollars fitting a war vet friend of mine with a prosthetic limb.....I guess that's also bad accounting..let's say there were more than one of these soldiers to fix after the fact..the last strike in Syria of 59 missles at over a million per missile....you see....it adds up really fast.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I am not speculating. I am using data and studies by CBO, CRS, universities, etc.

    Even if we financed the entire wars, it's a fraction of Obama's debt. Hint: we didn't finance any of the wars. We financed everything else.
     
  5. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    I think you're ignoring costs ......
    you started in this thread saying you think the numbers are wrong....then escalate to posting you know they are wrong......but Obama!!!!!!! OK..if you think none of our debt is connected to military expenses.....I say you're once again witch hunting for Obama ammo...hint....Obama hasn't been prez for 3 decades either....
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  6. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I am correct. I have seen no data at all that suggests anything close to $14T.

    Obama is out of bounds? He blamed W for 8 years, but that was OK.

    None of our debt is connected to the military expenses.

    We had a $200B surplus when W took over. He spent $100B of that on his wars. We would have had a $100B surplus. So whatever we spent that ate up that $100B surplus and caused $100B+ deficits is what we financed.

    If we were at $0 balanced budget and he spent $100B/yr, then it would have been financed.

    At some point we did hit $0 balanced budget and kept on spending.

    Medicare part D was a massive new program that wasn't paid for. Every liberal spending program saw massive increases in spending - far more than accounting for inflation.

    So yeah, the $14T is wrong, Obama did run up $10T in debt, the interest is $400B (so far this year, with 2 months to go), the $400B could buy a lot of shiny things or be wasted (typical govt. spending), the surplus funded the wars and then some, etc.

    I'm not excusing W. He spent like a drunken sailor, except the drunken sailor will stop spending when his wallet was empty.

    Obama dialed it up to 11. No, make that 100.
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  8. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    Regardless of how much money was spent, it was wasted and we don't have our fucking priorities straight.
     
  9. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    That was a republican bill passed by republicans (and Ron Wyden's punk ass).

    And you can't have it both ways. Y'all can't say on one hand Obama cut medicare by billions and then say he "dialed it up".
     
  10. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    When you spend trillions on war, how much do you have for:

    Payment on the debt
    Infrastructure

    Hell, EVERYTHING....

    Spending on war means you can't spend where you're supposed to. Like getting on track to pay this debt down. You still don't say anything about Obama cutting the deficit by 2/3rds... BUSH'S deficit...
     
    Natebishop3 and riverman like this.
  11. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    you are not following the thread title.....3 decades is 30 years....you stop less than one decade ago...so of course you haven't seen it....you haven't looked..and if you did, you ignored the cost of rehab and benefits paid to vets for 30 years...plus the cost of training peace keeping forces of other nations after the fact..etc...it's a long list.....also the cost of investing in upgrades to the military over those years....it's substantial whether you see it or not..and as dviss says....it's all for naught...wasted money. Maintaining our nuclear arsenal, troops in foreign countries and military bases in Turkey, Germany, Korea...etc.....
     
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Sorry, but this is nonsense.

    With the money we take in now, we could spend $1T on war and $3T on roads, bridges, hospitals, universities, and paying off the debt, with plenty of money to spare.

    It's a matter of how you prioritize your spending.
     
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    We haven't spent $14T on all our wars in history. Not even including WW II, Vietnam, Korea, and the rest. Not even close.

    Here's the Federation of American Scientists:

    https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS22926.pdf

    ($1T for wars since 9/11, through 2010, WW II cost $4T in constant dollars/adjusted for inflation).

    We haven't 14x the spending since, or before.

    The bigger the lie, the more believable?

    All our defense spending isn't for war. It's for peace with hundreds of nations, and a tiny fraction of our economy.
     
  14. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    I swear Denny... This is such a load...
     
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    What are you talking about?

    W ran up debts. He spent like a drunken sailor, etc. What part of that didn't you read?

    All that said, Obama ran up as much debt as EVERY president before him COMBINED.
     
  16. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    It's basic math.

    We took in $3.3T in taxes/etc. in 2014.

    $3.3T - $1T = $2.3T.

    What does $2.3T buy?

    Nothing?
     
  17. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    There are several factors you're not counting in....disability, rehab, college tuition, veterans children's benefits for life...etc...and rebuilding places we bomb the shit out of....I don't really care about the dollar amount but actually since Truman we've spent a constantly escalating figure on the war machines....and research into new war machines......I think you're focused on combat action and active duty costs...
     
  18. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    Budget by Year[edit]
    The following is historical spending on defense from 1996-2015, spending for 2014-15 is estimated.[1] The Defense Budget is shown in billions of dollars and total budget in trillions of dollars. The percentage of the total U.S. budget spent on defense is indicated in the third row, and change in defense spending from the previous year in the final row.

    1990s 2000s 2010s
    96
    97 98 99 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15
    Defense Budget (Billions)
    266 270 271 292 304 335 362 456 491 506 556 625 696 698 721 717 681 610 614 637
    Total Budget (Trillions) 1.58 1.64 1.69 1.78 1.82 1.96 2.09 2.27 2.41 2.58 2.78 2.86 3.32 4.08 3.48 3.51 3.58 3.48 3.64 3.97
    Defense Budget % 16.8 16.5 16.0 16.4 16.7 17.1 17.3 20.1 20.4 19.6 20.0 21.9 20.9 17.1 20.7 20.4 19.1 17.5 16.8 16.0
    Defense Spending % Change -0.1 +1.6 +0.2 +7.8 +4.0 +10.1 +8.2 +26.0 +7.6 +3.1 +10.0 +12.5 +11.3 +0.2 +3.4 -0.6 -5.0 -10.5 +0.6 +3.8
    add the trillions column from 96 -2016 and you get quite a few trillion more than you say Denny
     
  19. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    All that is factored in to these calculations. They count the government expenditures for all the related things, directly related and indirectly.

    In terms of military expenses, we spend maybe 2% of our economy on defense per year. That's what NATO calls for, and what nations at peace should roughly spend. Smaller economies might spend as much as 6%.

    2% of a very big economy is a very big amount of spending. JFK proposed 6% of the economy as defense spending, at the height of the cold war, when we didn't have Vietnam yet and were done in Korea. No military operations (except the CIA overthrowing banana dictators).

    I think you're focused on attributing spending we'd have made regardless of combat activities to our combat operations, to inflate and exaggerate the cost of those. Even then, it's nowhere near $14T.

    I'd be fine with massive cuts to spending on military, but that's a separate issue.
     
  20. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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