Yeah, it could be argued either way. I really do like both of them, even if they may be a little overpriced at the moment. I do see another big advantage of ET though. His quotes. Priceless..... Lol
I think we can agree there is no such thing as untouchable. I mean shit, I'd trade our entire roster for one season of LeBron. Add him, and a roster full of ring chasing vets on minimum contracts, and we'd have our most realistic shot at a title since 2000. Since that's not happening, I'll list mine in order of least touchable to most touchable: These four would take a no brainer trade to get me to move any of them: Dame - for both talent and leadership C.J. - I think many people underestimate how important it is to have players who can create their own shot Nurk - young, big, cheap and talented Vonleh - even younger, cheap and talent is starting to emerge Beyond that, I'd trade anyone else on the roster without hesitation. Everyone else on our roster is flawed in some way, but given the choice here's my order: Aminu - not a good starter, but like him as a back up, versatile defender that can guard multiple position, good rebounder for his size/position, favorable contract Harkless - to me the most "meh" player on our roster. Doesn't really suck at anything, but is slightly below average at everything. Young, but doesn't appear to have much untapped upside Turner - versatile, but expensive. Much better defender than Crabbe, but poor outside shooter. Like his passing and post up game. Don't like his contact. Napier - Decent back up PG, cheap and seems like a hard worker Doesn't matter/Don't care: Connaughton Layman Quarterman Would like to see moved: Crabbe - would miss his 3-point shooting, wouldn't miss his contract. Too one-dimensional, can't create for himself or others, poor rebounder, poor passer, poor defender. Davis - LOVED Davis last seasoon, not so much this season. He can and should be replaced. Leonard - don't hate him as much as most, but would love to move his contract. However, if we move both Leonard and Davis, we need an influx of big bodies to take their places. After not landing any big free agents last summer, my expectations are much lower this summer. The good thing is Olshey already has a bit of a head start on the summer. The Nurkic trade was an absolute home run. It addressed so many of our issues, and got us younger and anther 1st round pick, too. Vonleh's recent emergence has also alleviated one of our other biggest needs - a quality starting PF. I now believe he will get there. So, what would I do? Dump Crabbe and Leonard to get under the luxury tax threshold. Trade minor to moderate assets to get a solid, proven back up 4/5 (i.e. CLE pick + Ezeli to NYK for Kyle O'Quinn + filler). O'Quinn is better and cheaper than all of Davis, Leonard and obviously Ezili. He's dirt cheap - for another year, a great rebounder, an excellent passer and an elite shot blocker with a very solid midrange jumper. Perfect back up for Nurk and Vonleh. He's underutilized in NY playing behind Porzingis and Hernangomez. Use our pick + MEMs to draft a cheap Crabbe replacement that can hopefully grow into our starting SF of the Future. Both of these guys need NBA range on their 3-pointer. We will need that if we move both Crabbe and Leonard. The two picks can be anywhere from SG to PF. Just take BPA available at any of those positions. Tweeners don't always work as starters, but the versatility of a guy that can play two positions (2/3 or 3/4) can be an asset off the bench. Make other minor tweaks as necessary to clear additional cap space. I suspect we will eventually be over the luxury tax threshold, but should put it off as long as possible to postpone being hit by the repeater tax while we are still trying to build a contending roster. I think if we do build a contender, Paul won't mind paying the tax and the other penalties, like losing the MLE become less onerous. If we are actually a contender (big if, but that's the goal), ring chasing vets will be willing to sign here for the vet minimum. BNM
For the tl:dr crowd: Olshey already hit a walk off home run with the Nurkic trade. While another home run this summer would be awesome, I'd be happy with a ground rule double (Kyle O'Quinn) and a couple bloop singles (our draft pick and MEM's as potential cheap Crabbe replacements). BNM
I wouldn't trade Dame for 1 season of Lebron. No idea what that season would be. No idea what the Dame season would be. This team is closer to contention than a lot give it credit for. Youngest roster in the NBA means plenty of room to develop. Newly signed long term deals means plenty of time for them to get better, to become elite NBA players. Its like people forget this was originally presumed to be a multi year rebuild, and now after making the playoffs a third straight year we are looking to make it four in a row. Obviously not everyone is untouchable as I joked about earlier, but I'm still definitely not trading Dame, CJ, or Nurkic for a rental of any player... even if it is Lebron James.
It would be the first time since 1978 that we'd have the best player in the world on our team, and when you have the best player in the world, you always have a legitimate shot at the title. Yeah, I love Dame. C.J. and Nurk, but I love championships more. LeBron James isn't coming here, but if there was anyway we could get him, I'd do whatever it would take - without hesitation. Again, I love our team and Dame is as close to untouchable as it gets. I'm also a huge C.J. fan and not in any way in the "they can't coexist" camp. I believe surrounding them with the right players can hide their deficiencies to the point that we can build a contender. Nurk was one of those pieces. Vonleh is starting to look like he may be another. Still, there are no guarantees. I'm as excited about this team's future as anyone, but I would trade that unknown future for a legitimate shot at a title, even if it was for only a year. BNM
I think people under value what Crabbe gives us. Crabbe is the kind of player you need to win a playoff series in today's league. That is why the cavs went out to get Korver. I loved hearing Clyde Frasier the other day say that "you need a guy like him today, or you can't compete". Every announcer has been salivating just thinking about butter and lemon since Crabbe has come out of his shell recently. I want to wait and see what deals players get under the new CBA before we move Crabbes contract. Right now it might not look the best, but I do think it will look better once the cap increases and players start getting similar contracts for possibly less value.
True but I think if this group of players hits their collective ceiling then they can contend for a championship. Lebron James took his talents to south beach and lost to the Mavs in the Finals. No way I'm risking what could be 5+ years of contention down the road for one year of really solid contention.
He also carried an absolutely abysmal CLE team to the NBA finals as a 22-year old and is a much better player now, with championship experience. He's been to the finals six seasons in a row, and if you make it to the finals you have a chance to win. I agree that this team has potential, but we've had other teams with potential, too... BNM
Yes but you see I am very Lockean in the sense that what has happened before does not dictate what can/will/or might happen in the future. No matter how you slice it, in my mind somewhat of a chance to win in a ~5 year window > good chance to win in a 1 year window. We will probably just have to agree to disagree here.
. I agree with your post, but I don't think most of us under value Crabbe's skill set. (Just a few ) However the bottom line is Neil matched the offer for Crabbe IMO because he did not want to lose an asset for nothing. I think he knew at the time he could not afford him and ET, but that he had nothing to lose by matching and trying to land a asset in return for him later. And as you have pointed out Crabbe's ability to shoot the 3 makes him a valuable asset. He can be moved without us throwing in a draft pick.......... maybe even for a draft pick in return. We need a guy like him, but we just can't afford him after we pay for Nurk. So I guess we could hold on to him for another year if we can get rid of Ezeli, Meyers, and ____.
I respect your knowledge, but this is such a bollocks, even if it is sci-fi scenario. I wouldn't take Bron here for free. His Ohio fairytale is fine - he's from there - fair play. Any other team taking him losing its identity. Fighting for finals with guys like Lillard is much more fun than buying them with LeBron. I'm extremely emotional about game (especially this season), but it's not a war. Game is about beating LeBron. At least from my point of view. I've joined Blazers when it was all about beating Jordan (And I don't agree bout Layman. As I wasn't on Vonleh must go bandwagon.)
Just my opinion, but you both have great points. Would be nice if more conversations around here went like that....
Build the team around the core of Dame, CJ, Nurkic & Vonleh. It would take a very good no brainer trade to break up that core. From there, which players are going to step up? It appears the remainder of our rotation players are at or very near their ceiling. They are all trade bait now. So are the project players. NO has until the next season’s trade deadline to figure out which players need to be moved to stay out of the luxury tax. A lot can happen in that time frame. He has 3 first round picks to work with to make things happen in the draft. Plus next seasons first round pick to use in this draft, or, before the next trade deadline. I expect NO is going to be very active on draft day.
I didn't say anything earlier, but I really liked your trade down/salary savings point. I hadn't really thought about that, and it could save us some headaches down the road. Granted, we still have plenty of time....
