I really hope I'm around come playoff time, when the Heat get nowhere with their most dominant beast, while the Lakers advance farther in the tougher conference. Then what? Oh, Shaq's getting old...the Heat didn't have enough backup...Wade was injured...I can imagine all of the excuses. If it was such a problem with Shaq being young at the time, why did he put up his impressive stats so quickly? Kobe's stats pretty much sucked his first two years in the league. Michael Jordan (also a dominant player) had...what...28-5-5, or something around that, his rookie year? Oh yeah, but nobody dared to imagine Jordan vs. Magic or Bird back in 1986...oh wait...they did. I really wish I could've seen some decent centers in the finals, other than McCullouch and Smits. Mutombo was the DPOY at the time Shaq met him in the finals...but there was no matchup with Dikembe because he had no body...and Shaq manhandled him. That wouldn't be the case against a Ben Wallace or a Jamaal Magloire. Yeah, Shaq was responsible for titles...TWO of them...but the last one was because of a young kid who not a single soul gave credit to that night, and I'm glad he walked out on the MVP presentation. It was only the beginning of what is to come this season...
Anyways, back to topic...because in my opinion, Shaq shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as the Lakers and Kobe, now that he believes that he's going to "definitely" bring a title to the Heat this year. He lost all that weight, which he couldn't do in LA...so I'm through with him. The Lakers do have a strong team...one of the main things that they need to work on is teamwork, and this can be achieved with these guys. If Kobe gets the "Jordan-attitude" and realizes that sharing and distributing the ball is more effective than using just one big man and himself, it will take the Lakers farther. He can still shoot, and I'm sure he'll be putting up his most impressive stats of his career this season...but he needs to accomplish that goal AND make the other players around him better, also. This will be the deciding factor as to how far the Lakers push their way into the playoffs.
I'm just amazed by some of the crap I've been reading in here. Like Dre said, you guys are going at some extensive lengths to discredit Shaq. Respect what the man did to your city & team, and move on with a positve attitude. To even say some of the things about this player just makes me think you have absolutely no respect for the game in general. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Emo:</div><div class="quote_post">Solid points you made but you have to understand, Shaq may have all these amazing accolades under his belt with the 50% shooting in the Finals, (being 4 feet away from the basket) </div> Ingorance. Pure ingorance. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I've never praised Shaq unless he really deserved it. I've never liked Shaq when he was a Laker. I began liking the Lakers, actually, when Kobe's draft rights were traded to them. Shaq arrived a week later, and I really didn't care.</div> Riiiiight. You mean to tell me you didn't care when you guys acquired Shaq, at that point one of the best up-and-coming centers? Cut the crap. When Shaq left Orlando everyone was devastated, and our city has yet to recover. To say you didn't care when the Big Daddy came to LA is unreal and flat out ridiculous. Shaq is a beast. Now that the beast has left, you guys lost a very important piece to your lineup. Yes, you've added depth, but half the other western conference teams have depth and a big man. Now you guys are left with a sour taste in your mouth, because Shaq is finally away from the spoiled baby: Kobe Bryant.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">I really hope I'm around come playoff time, when the Heat get nowhere with their most dominant beast, while the Lakers advance farther in the tougher conference. Then what? Oh, Shaq's getting old...the Heat didn't have enough backup...Wade was injured...I can imagine all of the excuses.</div>I doubt this would be the situation, but you have a right to dream and pray that happens. Anyways, what happens when the Lakers find out they gave their franchise to Kobe, trading away one of the greatest players in the game for Kobe, and he wasn't able to produce a Championship throughout his Laker career? Which is very possible because the only reason the Lakers were such a title favorite was because they had the presence of a big man that put up great numbers, in a conference were there is a bunch of teams with big men that also put up great numbers (note that I didn't say center, I said the presence of big men). What will happen is, Kobe will be pumping out more excuses than Shaq to the city of L.A. and the Lakers org. when they find out that he helped traded away one of the greatest players in his era to try and lead a team to a championship and failed. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ice:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm just amazed by some of the crap I've been reading in here. Like Dre said, you guys are going at some extensive lengths to discredit Shaq. Respect what the man did to your city & team, and move on with a positve attitude. To even say some of the things about this player just makes me think you have absolutely no respect for the game in general.</div>True, about half of these people only like the Lakers because of Kobe Bryant, and if Kobe ever left the Lakers, they would care less about this team. Yet they talk like they have the Lakers in their best interest.
Okay, for all of you that drool over Shaq...say the Lakers pursued Shaq and let Kobe sign away to the Clippers. Would the Lakers win a championship? Hell no. C - Shaq PF - who? SF - George SG - Rush PG - Atkins Give me a break. You people have no brain if you believe that trading away Shaq instead of letting Kobe go is a mistake. And for anyone that "believes" that I was happy when Shaq arrived in LA, how would you know? I never...repeat never...liked Shaq. Sure, I was happy that the Lakers won championships, but that doesn't mean that I was infatuated with Shaq. I've been waiting for this off-season for a long time...ever since Phil Jackson came to Los Angeles and dropped Kobe into the starting five for good, and I'm overjoyed that the Lakers made the RIGHT move and let Shaq fade away into the East, along with his short career. Ice, you don't even like Kobe as it is...so anything pro-Kobe isn't going to be expressed from you, no matter what the topic is.
Here's something to unfold the wool from your eyes: Keeping Shaq, letting Kobe go... C - Shaq PF - Medvedenko SF - George SG - Rush PG - Atkins Same exact team last year, just without Kobe, Payton and Fisher...and you think that spells success??? Haha. Keeping Kobe, trading Shaq... C - Divac/Mihm PF - Odom SF - Butler SG - Kobe PG - Atkins Much better...and don't get me started about the added depth. PLEASE...someone, anyone...argue with this.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Give me a break. You people have no brain if you believe that trading away Shaq instead of letting Kobe go is a mistake.</div> It's no mistake, because in the long run I'd take Kobe over Shaq due to age. However, he's still a beast, and he will still get the job done. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And for anyone that "believes" that I was happy when Shaq arrived in LA, how would you know? I never...repeat never...liked Shaq. Sure, I was happy that the Lakers won championships, but that doesn't mean that I was infatuated with Shaq. I've been waiting for this off-season for a long time...ever since Phil Jackson came to Los Angeles and dropped Kobe into the starting five for good, and I'm overjoyed that the Lakers made the RIGHT move and let Shaq fade away into the East, along with his short career.</div> Fine, I'll 'believe' you. Ingorance. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ice, you don't even like Kobe as it is...so anything pro-Kobe isn't going to be expressed from you, no matter what the topic is.</div> You never know, I might 'believe' Kobe is the best player of all time. And another thing, I will give Kobe all the praise in the world when he comes to his on-court abilities. The man can play ball - without a doubt. Offcourt/his personality, thats another story that is irrelevant to this thread. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Much better...and don't get me started about the added depth. PLEASE...someone, anyone...argue with this. </div> The debate I'm trying to have with you is strictly about the fan reaction to Shaq leaving. I've said it before and I'll say it AGAIN, taking Kobe over Shaq is a smart move in the long run. You guys are just doubting Shaq because he's no longer in purple and gold, and he's aging. Todays version of Shaq is better than half of the other centers in the leauge. realdealbneal - Use the edit feature.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ice:</div><div class="quote_post">It's no mistake, because in the long run I'd take Kobe over Shaq due to age. However, he's still a beast, and he will still get the job done.</div> In the long run doesn't mean a thing to our organization. I'm talking this season...you think that Shaq would've won a title with LA? Geez. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ice:</div><div class="quote_post">Fine, I'll 'believe' you. Ingorance.</div> No, calling someone ignorant because of their opinion is far more "ignorant" by the way. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ice:</div><div class="quote_post">You never know, I might 'believe' Kobe is the best player of all time. And another thing, I will give Kobe all the praise in the world when he comes to his on-court abilities. The man can play ball - without a doubt. Offcourt/his personality, thats another story that is irrelevant to this thread.</div> But you don't. You like Ray Allen because he's cute. You like Earl Boykins because he is a good player. If you give Kobe all the praise in the world when it comes to his on-court abilities, you're pretty much saying he's the best. And...there's no need to even mention any off-court problems, because that's been taken care of. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ice:</div><div class="quote_post">The debate I'm trying to have with you is strictly about the fan reaction to Shaq leaving. I've said it before and I'll say it AGAIN, taking Kobe over Shaq is a smart move in the long run. You guys are just doubting Shaq because he's no longer in purple and gold, and he's aging. Todays version of Shaq is better than half of the other centers in the leauge. realdealbneal - Use the edit feature.</div> I'm doubting Shaq because of these factors: he's aging, he's never proven that he can win it all by himself (he's had the chance to, Kobe hasn't), and because he lost all of that weight, but he couldn't lose it when he was a Laker. He's a lowlife...if he really wanted to help our organization, he would've kept his weight down and continued playing, but all he was looking for was an exit from someone who is eventually going to out-shine Godzilla, and I'm ready for this season to begin. Maybe Shaq will outscore Kobe...maybe he'll outrebound him...but who's got alot of life left in him? What team is more than likely going to win 2-3 more championships? Put Kobe on a team with no Odom, and they probably wouldn't be successful, but Kobe would be jacking up 32 PPG...just like Shaq will, now that all he has is Wade. That's all I have to say, to give me confidence that Shaq will soon be regretting his departure, because now everything is on his shoulders...to lose weight, to make all of his Miami fans happy, to make Will Smith smile, and to try and fit another ring around his fat finger. It's not going to happen.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, for all of you that drool over Shaq...say the Lakers pursued Shaq and let Kobe sign away to the Clippers. Would the Lakers win a championship? Hell no. C - Shaq PF - who? SF - George SG - Rush PG - Atkins </div>Btw, when you compare the lineup, remember that GP was traded to address the issue of lack of size in the court. It could well be that the only missing spot would've been the one that Kobe left seeing as good shooters are easier to come by than a big man like Shaq. Also, good chance Malone would resign with Lakers seeing as he probably would choose Shaq + GP > Kobe. Even Fisher would've probably turned down the Warriors contract to return to a team that would still be a title contender without Kobe.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting heatfan83:</div><div class="quote_post">Btw, when you compare the lineup, remember that GP was traded to address the issue of lack of size in the court. It could well be that the only missing spot would've been the one that Kobe left seeing as good shooters are easier to come by than a big man like Shaq. Also, good chance Malone would resign with Lakers seeing as he probably would choose Shaq + GP > Kobe. Even Fisher would've probably turned down the Warriors contract to return to a team that would still be a title contender without Kobe.</div> Okay, let's say that's true. C - Shaq PF - Malone SF - George SG - Rush PG - Payton This team wouldn't even make it past the Rockets in the first round. They'd still be playing the triangle offense due to Shaq, and they'd be without Kobe and his game winners and clutch shots. This same team (with Kobe) lost in the Finals...barely made it past the Spurs...so why would the organization try and keep the same team minus their young star? Makes no sense. Would you rather trade off an aging player that you can get a star and two good players out of, or let go of your future for nothing?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">In the long run doesn't mean a thing to our organization. I'm talking this season...you think that Shaq would've won a title with LA? Geez.</div> Depends who they got for him. You compared the starting lineups of a Shaq/Kobe lineup, but it's hardly fair to compare them because the Heat gave up a lot. Teams probably would have given up a lot for Kobe as well so the lineups and 'longruns' are unknown and irrelevant. It's a huge question mark and we just don't know what the Lakers lineup would have been with Shaq and w/o Kobe. It's a joke you even posted the comparisions because everyone knows the Lakers weren't going to let Kobe walk without getting anything in return. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No, calling someone ignorant because of their opinion is far more "ignorant" by the way.</div> You said you wanted Shaq to fade away in the eastern conference. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But you don't. You like Ray Allen because he's cute. You like Earl Boykins because he is a good player. If you give Kobe all the praise in the world when it comes to his on-court abilities, you're pretty much saying he's the best. And...there's no need to even mention any off-court problems, because that's been taken care of. </div> I love Kobe as a player, don't get me wrong. The things he's done to the game of basketball are amazing. He's so cluth fans love to hate him. Is he the best? Hell no. You are missing the point I'm trying to make, I like Kobe as a player yes, but he's no god - I know that. What does this honestly have to do with anything though? Nothing at all. I'll answer the other comments though - Ray Allen is very attractive yes, but he's also got the sweetest jumper in the league. Earl Boykins is as fast as lighting and he's so short, I love what he brings to the table. Anyhow, try and keep this on-topic. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm doubting Shaq because of these factors: he's aging, he's never proven that he can win it all by himself (he's had the chance to, Kobe hasn't)</div> Dre already answered that earlier, different situations - He was younger and didn't know the game as well as he does to this day. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> and because he lost all of that weight, but he couldn't lose it when he was a Laker. He's a lowlife...if he really wanted to help our organization, he would've kept his weight down and continued playing, but all he was looking for was an exit from someone who is eventually going to out-shine Godzilla, and I'm ready for this season to begin. Maybe Shaq will outscore Kobe...maybe he'll outrebound him...but who's got alot of life left in him? What team is more than likely going to win 2-3 more championships? That's all I have to say, to give me confidence that Shaq will soon be regretting his departure.</div> At one point Shaq didn't need to lose weight. He was overweight yes, but he was still unstoppable and losing weight wasn't a number one priority. Over the years it took a toll on him and now he's realized he HAS to lose the weight.
I wish you wouldn't tell me to stay on topic...the topic is how good the Lakers are gonna be this season, and Shaq is the least of our concerns so who even cares about them. How about everyone else stay on topic? Enough said.
As much as I don't like to admit, realdealbneal is right about one thing. The Lakers did what was best for them in the long run. There are some things that would've helped (like getting Marcus Banks or one more young PF from Miami) but the Lakers played the offseason almost perfectly. I just really wish he'd quit dissing Shaq. You have absolutely no respect for Shaq, but yet he did more to bring us championships than Kobe did. When the Lakers won three straight, Shaq was the MVP. When Kobe tried to take over, they lost. That doesn't mean Kobe CAN'T take a team to win the title, but it wasn't his time yet. He should've been less selfish and taken a backseat to Shaq, at least for a few more years. Get this straight: LAKERS NEEDED SHAQ. Not now, but then. At least respect that. Oh, and you need more than depth to win a championship. Ever hear of the Sacramento Queens? Dallas Mavericks? Granted, Lakers have Kobe but he has to have a near PERFECT season.
On-topic is carrying on a discussion about the Lakers, not talking about Ray Allen or Earl Boykins. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As much as I don't like to admit, realdealbneal is right about one thing. The Lakers did what was best for them in the long run. There are some things that would've helped (like getting Marcus Banks or one more young PF from Miami) but the Lakers played the offseason almost perfectly. I just really wish he'd quit dissing Shaq. You have absolutely no respect for Shaq, but yet he did more to bring us championships than Kobe did. When the Lakers won three straight, Shaq was the MVP. When Kobe tried to take over, they lost. That doesn't mean Kobe CAN'T take a team to win the title, but it wasn't his time yet. He should've been less selfish and taken a backseat to Shaq, at least for a few more years. Get this straight: LAKERS NEEDED SHAQ. Not now, but then. At least respect that.</div> And thats coming straight from a Laker fan...
Would someone go make another thread that says, "Okay Shaq is grand" and then post in it? Laker fans need to just put him aside. Sure, he did well and helped us win championships, but the way he has acted recently, and the disrespect he has shown by actually working out and trying to get better for the Heat, I wish him the worst of luck because of it. He could've left us and said nothing more about Kobe, and I wouldn't be having these discussions...he could've tried to lose weight these last two years, and I wouldn't be having these discussions...but he didn't. Shaq is history, just like he is to Orlando. He devastated the Magic when he signed with the Lakers and suddenly wanted to win...and now he gave up on the city of Los Angeles these last two years and suddenly wants to win again in Miami. This is where I can't stand him the most...so I'm glad he's history. A real Laker fan looks at the lineup and says, "Hey...I like our chances. We can do this, without Shaq." But some guys are too busy worrying about the Eastern Conference and the Miami Heat...and that's the whole point of this thread. Who really cares how well Shaq will do if you're a Laker fan. The only reason you'd want Shaq and the Heat to go to the Finals is so hopefully the Lakers meet them there and crush them. For anyone else in this thread that like neither the Lakers or Heat, I understand why you'd choose Shaq over Kobe...but this wouldn't have been the case if Kobe's personal life wasn't ruined, I guarantee it. Big deal, who cares if Shaq is gone. Farewell...you weren't going to work with Kobe, and Kobe wasn't going to work with you...so you're just a memory, as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather see the Lakers lose in the playoffs for a few more years, and then come back and win...than see them lose for a few more years without Kobe, and then never make the playoffs again once Shaq retires.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">the topic is how good the Lakers are gonna be this season, and Shaq is the least of our concerns so who even cares about them. Enough said.</div>Shaq should be the least of your concerns, but the fact is that almost every kobe-fan-first-laker-fan-second always manages to bad mouth Shaq in every post they can, if you don't believe me, read the first few pages in this post before someone stepped in and said to have more respect for Shaq and for what he did. Matter of fact, try reading almost any thread in these forums and you'll see how many times Shaq get's bad mouthed when the topic has nothing to do with him and it's always a Kobe fan or a Laker fan who prefers Kobe.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Would someone go make another thread that says, "Okay Shaq is grand" and then post in it? Laker fans need to just put him aside. Sure, he did well and helped us win championships, but the way he has acted recently, and the disrespect he has shown by actually working out and trying to get better for the Heat, I wish him the worst of luck because of it. He could've left us and said nothing more about Kobe, and I wouldn't be having these discussions...he could've tried to lose weight these last two years, and I wouldn't be having these discussions...but he didn't. </div> Haha, it's good to put him aside, but you guys are never going to forget about him. Respect him as a player and appreciate what he did on court, forget about all the stuff he said off-court. The same goes for Kobe Bryant - Respect him as a player ON court but just put aside all of his off-court drama. It's a two way street here and you are only looking at it to be a one-way with Kobe being the best. Shaq said crap about Kobe, Kobe said crap about Shaq. They are both just as guilty, and the media thrived off of their immaturity. As for the weight issue, I'm sure Shaq also slacked a little because he DID have Kobe next to him, and Kobe was good enough to prevent Shaq from losing the weight. He probably figured he didn't need to because a 80% Shaq and Kobe is better than most teams anyhow.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting heatfan83:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq should be the least of your concerns, but the fact is that almost every kobe-fan-first-laker-fan-second always manages to bad mouth Shaq in every post they can, if you don't believe me, read the first few pages in this post before someone stepped in and said to have more respect for Shaq for what he did. Matter of fact, try reading almost any thread in these forums and you'll see how many times Shaq get's bad mouthed when the topic has nothing to do with him and it's always a Kobe fan.</div> What about all of the shaq-fan-first-laker-fan-second guys?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ice:</div><div class="quote_post"> As for the weight issue, I'm sure Shaq also slacked a little because he DID have Kobe next to him, and Kobe was good enough to prevent Shaq from losing the weight. He probably figured he didn't need to because a 80% Shaq and Kobe is better than most teams anyhow.</div> Hmm...and this is exactly why Kobe was treated for exhaustion and dehydration. An 80% Shaq...when some nights it wasn't even that...and a 100%, give-it-my-all Kobe. This is why Shaq is gone. I would dump Iverson because he doesn't show up for practices, no matter how many he scores...just like I would dump Shaq because he didn't CARE enough to lose the weight in Los Angeles. The greatest of all time, whoever that is in your eyes, would be a waste of time if he didn't wanna practice, or if his attitude towards the organization was that poor...especially if he was making $29 million a year and still not satisfied with that kind of money.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting realdealbneal:</div><div class="quote_post">Hmm...and this is exactly why Kobe was treated for exhaustion and dehydration. An 80% Shaq...when some nights it wasn't even that...and a 100%, give-it-my-all Kobe. This is why Shaq is gone. I would dump Iverson because he doesn't show up for practices, no matter how many he scores...just like I would dump Shaq because he didn't CARE enough to lose the weight in Los Angeles.</div> The same Kobe that would give it all, and not give Shaq the ball when necessary. Kobe simply tried to do it all and he often forgot about the 7 foot beast down low. Hell, if I was Shaq and I knew that Kobe was going to try an do it all without sharing the ball sometimes and letting the egos clash, I'd keep eating my Krispy Kreme Doughnuts too. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The greatest of all time, whoever that is in your eyes, would be a waste of time if he didn't wanna practice, or if his attitude towards the organization was that poor...especially if he was making $29 million a year and still not satisfied with that kind of money.</div> Sounds familiar, I saw him play for the Magic every single day and now he's doing the same thing Shaq is doing in Miami.
