<div class="quote_poster">StateofFlux Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">CR2, I would love to hear your argument as to why Paul would correlate to Durant more than Oden. I would say that Durant fits into the Bogut/Williams mold because he plays a role of scoring away from the basket at the 4/5 positions. Oden to me is a prototypical All-star center, where Paul is the prototypical All-star point guard. Oden has post moves, a resemblance of rebounding dominance, and can dominate the defensive end in the NBA right now. I'd say that is similar to Paul's entrance into the league, his ability to make others better and turn a franchise around.</div> Certainly! Thanks for being patient and asking for clarification. Okay I know this is a stretch and it's too early to say and I'm not the best opinion when it comes to nba prospects and how they might turn out... but I thought one example of an nba ready guy that had good upside was Chris Paul. He just had a lot of game and talent to make immediate impact. With Kevin Durant, I feel that he can contribute right away in the same manner, but has tremendous upside. With Oden, I think he might take a while (as most big men do) and his upside might not be as high as some would think. Think about Eddy Curry or Dasagana Diop or the hype Chris Taft received for having nba bodies and very limited or one-sided games. Oden to me is a lot more mechanical still, he seems more unproven in my eyes, and he's not a very fluid type of a player yet. He's needs another year IMO to be absolutely sure this guy is #1 material. I mean if we get another Andrew Bynum or POB, whichever team drafts that guy, might have to wait for any form of consistency because these big men coming in might not be as polished or as high upside as a Dwight Howard or an Emeka Okafor who are ready to play right now skillwise and body wise. That's what I'm saying. To me Oden is nba ready body wise, but he is very unpolished. He seems to lack fluidity in his style of game and he seems a bit behind in what most centers should do if they want to turn a team around. He just can't get by on brute strength around the basket like he did in high school. Oden has to prove a lot more that he knows the game, he can learn it and has natural instincts to play against guys his own size and strength. Right now I think he's got to try one more year and prove it or at least finish strong and show that he can be this player worth a #1 overall not based on potential, but what he has now against nba type talent and nba bodies. Now with Durant this guy is extremely polished for his age and his athleticism, wingspan, quickness is unreal. He's got the ability to do it all because he knows the game and has all the tools. He rebounds, scores, he hits turnaround shots, he pulls up off the dribble for a shot, he gets to the foul line repeatedly, he posts up, he shoots threes well, and he finishes in transition. All this and he doesn't force very much like Jrich does or Baron does. He just takes over at the right times on his team. It seems to me this guy can do it in the halfcourt and the open court, it doesn't matter because this guy seems like a more than solid future nba player with what he's doing at the collegiate level. Plus, his upside is just unreal with his quickness and athleticism and shot touch for his size. Plus his wingspan is ridiculously long for his size. Something like a 7 foot 5 as reported by espn on tv awhile back. Oh and he's got good hands and he's just naturally smart and seems to make all the right decisions whenver I see him play. To me that's an impact player. A guy that has very few weaknesses and a lot of strengths. I'm not sure if the 7'5 wingspan is totally true or maybe his athleticism is bland relative to the nba for 6'10 guys. Maybe his physical abilities at the draft combine might show as much as Monta Ellis' poor results, but the kid looks like a guy that has a tremendous package of skills (like Ellis but only readier). I mean everything that I like about Ike Diogu, Andrew Bogut, Joe Johnson or Chris Paul in terms of the whole nba game for their position, Durant has + the nba physical tools to be a nightmare matchup. Defensively, I'm hoping Durant can be a guy like Andrei Kirilenko or Tayshaun Prince or one of the good 6'9-6-10 defenders either inside or on the perimeter. Hopefully, it won't matter. But I'm guessing since he is a scorer, defense will be secondary as it was for Vince Carter or T-mac and those guys play as much defense as they feel enough energy for. But they block shots and steal the ball a few times and it's something on D that's better than nothing... I think many people have joined the Durant camp and want to see more from Oden to believe he's worth taking #1 overall. I think Oden is #2.
<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'd love to get either but I really like Durant and I'm not that high on Oden. Oden has been good, but not dominant. His shotblocking numbers are pretty insane but other than that he really just hasn't shown anything really spectacular. His post game is basically just baby hooks and dunks over guys several inches shorter than he is, I know hes got a cast on his hand or something but as of now he just hasn't been very impressive on offense. Rebounding has been good at 9.3 rpg, but again not dominant, even on a team with no other good big men or anyone else averaging even 5 rpg. Rebounding has been even less impressive against teams with good frontlines. He seems like a pretty smart player but tends to get into foul trouble very often. If he can't stay in the game in college theres no way in hell he'll be able to in his first few years in the NBA. IMO hes not nearly as NBA ready as many make him out to be, he just fouls too much and seems to be less effective on the boards against good college frontlines. I still think Oden will be a great C in the NBA but not a top 5 C of all time, more like David Robinson or Patrick Ewing. Durant, however, has been dominant in pretty much every facet of the game. Obviously his scoring has been nuts, hes averaging 25.1 ppg (28.6 in Big 12 play) with 9 games of 30 or more points. He can shoot with the best of them, penetrate and finish, or score in the post with a turn-around jump shot or baby hook. His rebounding has also been dominant at 11.4 per game (12.5 in Big 12 play) and he fills the stat sheet with 1.8 spg and 1.8 bpg. He can come into the NBA and produce immediately because of his versatility. Many project him to be a SF but I think he'll be a PF since hes got a body nearly identical to Chris Bosh as well as similar rebounding, shotblocking, and inside scoring skills but he also has elements of McGrady or Nowitzki in his offensive game. I don't think any GM would take Durant over Oden just for their own job security. Oden has so much hype that the GM would be killed by the fans and other people in the organization, even if Durant is a great player. Oden is probably the safer pick because hes the classic C and worst case he'd be a top 10 C in his prime, but Durant has more potential IMO.</div> I totally agree. If GSW ever made an amazing play for #1 pick or happened to luck out in the lottery, I'd hope for Durant over Oden. If we got #2, I'd go for Oden. If Durant got bigger he might be the four we're looking for that could be paired next to Biedrins. If he's a 3, well... he'd be a damned good three. He could be a body type similar to Rashard Lewis or Lamar Odom, but I think he'd be more dimensional than those two players. Again I'm only guessing what I think would be a good pick for us. GSW scouts probably know more than I do because it's their job to know. And if they don't know, then they suck. The thing I worry about is if we get Oden, then Biedrins might not have any business playing the 4 unless he can develop a shot touch as good as Jermaine O'neil's. Right now, Biedrins shoots worse than Joel Pryzbilla and any time playing the four will have to be defensively sort of like how the Wizards used Etan Thomas or the Knicks used Kurt Thomas to switch between the four and the five spots. But of those two players, only Kurt Thomas could shoot decently. I don't see any Brian Grant or Kurt Thomas or perhaps Troy Murphy, Brian Cook, or that guy on New Orleans in Biedrins' current game. We definitely don't have any player at any position that has the entire game like Durant does. That's why I'm so hyped on him.
<div class="quote_poster">AlleyOop Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Durant is 6' 10" 220 lbs. Oden is 7'0" 280 lbs. They both have so much promise, and obviously they play different positions, but I would say you have to go with size here. especially if you're the Warriors. With Durant, you could have a future all-star, but how would he fit in the roster? Would he be an immediate starter, or project? With Oden, you immediately have your franchise center for the next 10 years. Put Biedrins at the PF and make him develop a jumpshot. You now have the most intimidating frontcourt in the NBA. Oden may or may not ever become a "hall of famer," but he's an instant cornerstone at center for years to come. Now, let's drop the #1 pick talk because we ARE NOT getting it! </div> Well... we can go with size and we might make a Joe Smith type of pick or we might get a guy that's like a Dikembe Mutombo of some sorts... or we can pick the guy that has a tremendous amount of talent and the physical tools to make that talent stand out against others in his position (which could be a 3 or a 4 depending on where his body grows). But he's got the skill and his impact at the college level is ridiculous. And like Oden, he was well scouted and on the radar well before entering college. It's just that big players are so rare, that any body resembling Bynum, Kwame Brown, Dasagana Diop or Eddy Curry seem to draw the most hype because teams are wishing for Shaq, Amare, Dwight Howard or Jermaine O'neil. Pieces that could or have won championships. Luckily those four were one of a kind bodies with some skill or polished enough to compete or teams had to wait awhile on them to develop to get something out of them. But they had to have four other skilled guys to make them fit. Man we don't even have four of those guys on the floor at the same time, and ones that actually play defense or shoot free throws. I say go for talent + upside and a guy we could actually use that's nba ready right now. I think Durant is ready right now. I'm no scout, but Durant seems like as ready as a Carmelo Anthony, Lebron James or a Chris Paul. We're talking ROY and almost instant franchise turn-around + a true marquee player. And he can shoot free throws and knows how to get to the line without forcing it! If we get Oden, GSW better know what the heck they are doing in getting the other four players to surround him with or else we'll just have some 7 foot guy that nobody will throw the ball to because they rather take outside shots than pass or create. And on defense they'll just let guys constantly run at him and get him into foul trouble. Plus, do we think Don Nelson actually knows what to do with a big man prospect? Oh yeah have him do the stuff that the other four guys don't bother to do well enough, especially at the four (which is supposed to be the on-floor backup center for the center in most traditional lineups). Biedrins at the four and Oden at the five would get too crowded inside IMO and his developing jumpshot seems rather unlikely as he has no way to release it quickly or smoothly. Biedrins didn't even used to be that much of a wing player compared to guys like Howard, who went from a KG type PF to a C. He's kind of like how Tiago Splitter suddenly lost his perimeter game in favor of being strictly a post type of guy at C. I don't think they can reverse that unless they've played a perimeter position a lot to go back to training for it. And agreed, we're not getting the #1 or the #2... we just aren't that bad enough to get it.
I think both players are can't miss players. I personally like that Oden already has the physical strength to dominate at the pro level, although Durant fits this team's style more. The point is moot because the Warriors won't be picking anywhere near where those 2 will go.
I can't believe this. You take Oden at #1 because he's BAP and not draft for need. He's got the most upside, AND he can rebound and clog the middle. We don't need to turn into a 3-ball shooting team.
I definately think that Durant is the better college player and that Oden could take quite a while to develop. However, I think a C like him is worth wating for. Also, while I do like Durant's game, it might not translate to the NBA. For some reason, lately I've been thinking that Durant could end up like an Al Harrington. He's putting up good rebounding numbers now against smaller, slower guys. I'm not sure he will be able to rebound as well in the NBA, especially on the Warriors where he will only play 4. I think he has better chance of ending up like Joe Smith, a skilled player who doesn't have the weight to play down low.
Okay, first off, Oden had surgery -- not a sprain, or a bruise, etc. -- on his right wrist last year, and he is still recovering from it. He turned his left hand into a weapon, shooting freethrows and nailing jump hooks with it. It seems that, despite all the hype, he is humble and hard working. I think what's most striking to me is that, in the limited footage I've seen of him, defense comes naturally. This guy was born to block shots, IMO. He loves playing defense. Not just his incredible length -- his timing, his hops, his presence, his anticipation -- I see remnants of Bill Russell in terms of timing his blocks. I mean, this guy is putting up exceptional performances, and he doesn't even have his good hand yet! Just wait until he can start throwing down dunks with the right hand. He is only 19 years old, and is already a man among boys. I mean, dude, just imagine when he fills into that frame. Much like Durant, the phyiscal prospects of his game are frightening. I think the biggest thing is that he doesn't like the hype, and would rather win a championship and prove he is dominant before leaving college. His role model is David Robinson. IMO, with Oden, it's just a matter of time. Sure, we can wait another year and see. If he comes back to college next year, he'll probably break collegiate records across the board. This guy is an old school center -- he ain't no Bynum or Chandler or Kwamae Brown -- young guys who have all the hype and potential but no foundation. Oden is old school - a throwback who thinks defense first. I mean, he turned himself into a competent opposite-handed freethrower. He is a shot-blocking machine. He is mature beyond his years, IMO, much like LeBron. In fact, those two guys bear striking similarities. This year's draft is going to be pretty good, it seems. Durant and Oden are both bonefide #1 picks. Can't go wrong either way. But for a team that lacks inside presence, rebounding, and DEFENSE, uh.... who better to draft than a guy who could turn into the next Bill Russell, only bigger? SI Article ESPN Interview Article
Seriously, its all about Oden's defense. His offense might be on par with a Bynum or Kwame at this point, so its a risk whether he is a 15 point scorer or a 24 point scorer, but defensively he is the best big man I have ever seen, and might be mechanical on offense, but is amazingly fluid on defense. He can switch from lane to lane in one stride and jump off balance and can still hit the apex of a shot from close range. It's really impressive. It's kind of like in football where you can take Mario Williams or Reggie Bush, but Reggie Bush is the entire offensive line.
Durant has over 11 boards a game...in a draft where none of the alleged top 10 guys have 10+. Actually,only Fazekas has 20/10 besides Durant. Want a shotblocker? Stephane Lasme is a steal in rd 2, his 5 blocks a game are well ahead of Oden. That Durant is out boarding guys like Oden,Horford,etc,and can lead a fast break like a PG,can drive,post or pop a 3,pass,sell popcorn and whatever.......as a freshman who's still not filled out and buffed up-is just amazing. I LIKE Oden,but we have a C to last a decade-and Durant is pretty much a lock to be an All Star. My hunch is we land 8-12 where there's nobody who's anything but "potential",so I'll probably be for a trade down,with Fazekas,Morris Almond,Dominic McGuire,Herbert Hill some guys I lake lower rd 1. Rd 2, besides Lasme, there's Zabian Dowdell, Caleb Green,and a few more.
Man, that's what I'm saying REM. How is Oden the BAP, when Durant simply does a lot more than the bigger players. I totally agree with you. What happens if we get a Mutombo instead of a T-mac? I'd rather have a T-mac. Potential MVP is a lot better than DPOY IMO.
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Potential MVP is a lot better than DPOY IMO.</div> Why not both ;-)
<div class="quote_poster">AnimeFANatic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Why not both ;-)</div> Exactly. David Robinson was that and more. He was ROY, too. He was ready to play from year one in the NBA. Greg Oden can be another David Robinson and become the Warriors first ROY since Chris Webber. Even though Durant might become another Dirk Nowitzki, remember it took Dirk a while to become the player he is today. He wasn't draining all those daggers from year one. It took him a couple of years. I would project Kevin Durant will take some time to become really good.
Whats all this talk about Oden/Durant? You know there is literally no chance we will end up with with the top 2 picks. With our luck if we did get it, they would not declare! So basically we are going to have to trade for someone...
It's important to remember that a lot of great young NBA players post better numbers than they did in college. You have less time to play in the college game, and with 20 minute halves instead of quarters, more neccessity to take in game breaks on the bench. I imagine if Oden is healthy and playing in an NBA rotation, those rebounding numbers will go up.
Well, it's not just about numbers, but is anybody watching how this guy plays? He's got no moves or fluidity. He's got no polish. I think even Uconn's Emeka Okafor had more moves than this guy. But that could very well change. So I don't know. I won't pretend like I can predict how this guy will develop. But based on upside, he's a #2 because strong, athletic and somewhat skilled big men with good hands and smarts are a rarity in the league. I just if we even had a chance to draft a top two player in the draft class, we take one of them. If we have to choose between them, stick with Biedrins at C and go with Durant.
