only way i would be ok with seeing area 51 go is if we get deandre in the draft. you dont come by athletes like sean often. i just want krstic outta here and a serious upgrade off the bench.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Apr 17 2008, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Netted, I saw the posts you linked to elsewhere detailing your ideas for a Brand S&T that involved Nenad, Marcus, and a pick. I'm curious as to how you (and others) would rank Brand in terms of big men today. He's had nice stats, but his teams have really never done very well. Has he ever been to the playoffs more than once? I've never really followed his career but have watched him a lot since his comeback late this year in anticipation the Nets might try to acquire him. In that limited exposure, he's really not doing much in the post. Most of his inside scoring has been off of offensive put backs, and he seems to be shooting the short jumper more than playing with his back to the basket. He doesn't look particularly fluid moving to me, and I'm struck anew at how undersized (in height) he looks to be a big-time PF. But I also realize how incredibly unfair it is to let only this most recent impression govern my assessments when he's just now coming back from a severe injury. He would obviously be a huge upgrade up front for the Nets, even at his current level of play, since he can both defend, rebound, and score. But I'm just wondering how folks that watch a lot of ball rank him vis-a-vis the Al Jeffersons, Garnetts, Stoudemires, O'Neals, etc., not in terms of athleticism/size but in terms of efficacy inside.</div> I couldn't answer this any better than Reganomics did. His size isn't a limitation... has very long arms.
All I know is, the Nets can't spend $10 million and 15% of their roster space on Stromile Swift and Trent Hassell. To move them, though, the Nets will have to combine them with the lottery pick or one of the Williamses. Wouldn't bother me in the least. If you look at recent history, a traded draft pick is NEVER worth as much as the IDEA of the draft pick. Look at the lottery draft picks that have been dealt in draft-day trades, and they're rarely worth as much as the player that comes back. This year, of course, it looks like 90% of the projected first-round picks are freshman, and it's notoriously difficult to project how well they'll play or how much they'll contribute their first year or two. For a team (the Nets) that apparently wants to turn it all around as quickly as possible, there is just too much risk involved to keep the pick. Of course, if they end up with one of the top three picks, that may be a different story. I'd be shocked if the Nets got rid of Harris, Vince, or Boone. I think they'll resign Diop, but I thought the same thing about Scalabrine and Mikki Moore, and Boston/Sac offered up a buttload of money. I hope they can S&T Krstic, and get some asset back for him. I don't really care about anyone else. Hopefully, they can ditch Hassell, and if they insist on having a defensive specialist around, they could always bring Antoine back or sign Bobby Jones. I think it's obvious, though, that having a bunch of guys who don't play defense, and one defensive specialist on the floor, doesn't work (with the exception of a post defender like Collins/Diop). I have no idea what to think about RJ. On one hand, I'd like him to retire a Net, on the other hand, I'd like to slap him silly until he promises to put in some defensive effort. This team has so little talent . . . even Charlotte has a better starting five than the Nets on paper . . . They've got more offensive weapons, are younger, and more athletic. I don't understand why people don't appreciate the job Frank has done.
I agree that reganomics' reply was excellent. Thanks. Dumpy, I totally agree re Swift and Hassell. They have to be part of whatever deals are made this summer, whether it's pairing one of them with RJ for some blockbuster or with picks and/or the Williamses. Sean's athletic ability makes him an entertaining player, but I have my doubts about his long-term prospects (more due to motivation issues than talent), and I doubt he'll be playing big, consistent minutes under Frank anytime soon anyway. I have no problem with moving him if it helps bring back a Brand or other player that can contribute now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Apr 18 2008, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you look at recent history, a traded draft pick is NEVER worth as much as the IDEA of the draft pick. Look at the lottery draft picks that have been dealt in draft-day trades, and they're rarely worth as much as the player that comes back.</div> 3 quick examples of trades for high picks that worked out well for the team receiving the better pick. The Utah Jazz moved up from the #6 pick to the #3 pick in 2005 The Portland Trail Blazers moved up from the #4 pick to the #2 pick in 2006 The Detroit Pistons traded Darko for what ended up as the #15 pick in 2007
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Apr 18 2008, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think they'll resign Diop, but I thought the same thing about Scalabrine and Mikki Moore, and Boston/Sac offered up a buttload of money.</div> The difference is that Diop is actually worth the midlevel exception. I honestly have no idea what the team should do this offseason. I've got some faith that Thorn can rip a team off in an RJ trade, and I'm hopeful that immediately following that he'll step down and let Kiki take over. We'll see. But the roster as presently constituted isn't going anywhere, and I think management finally realizes that, so we'll see what happens when they deal with that reality.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Apr 18 2008, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>All I know is, the Nets can't spend $10 million and 15% of their roster space on Stromile Swift and Trent Hassell. To move them, though, the Nets will have to combine them with the lottery pick or one of the Williamses. Wouldn't bother me in the least. If you look at recent history, a traded draft pick is NEVER worth as much as the IDEA of the draft pick. Look at the lottery draft picks that have been dealt in draft-day trades, and they're rarely worth as much as the player that comes back. This year, of course, it looks like 90% of the projected first-round picks are freshman, and it's notoriously difficult to project how well they'll play or how much they'll contribute their first year or two. For a team (the Nets) that apparently wants to turn it all around as quickly as possible, there is just too much risk involved to keep the pick. Of course, if they end up with one of the top three picks, that may be a different story. I'd be shocked if the Nets got rid of Harris, Vince, or Boone. I think they'll resign Diop, but I thought the same thing about Scalabrine and Mikki Moore, and Boston/Sac offered up a buttload of money. I hope they can S&T Krstic, and get some asset back for him. I don't really care about anyone else. Hopefully, they can ditch Hassell, and if they insist on having a defensive specialist around, they could always bring Antoine back or sign Bobby Jones. I think it's obvious, though, that having a bunch of guys who don't play defense, and one defensive specialist on the floor, doesn't work (with the exception of a post defender like Collins/Diop). I have no idea what to think about RJ. On one hand, I'd like him to retire a Net, on the other hand, I'd like to slap him silly until he promises to put in some defensive effort. This team has so little talent . . . even Charlotte has a better starting five than the Nets on paper . . . They've got more offensive weapons, are younger, and more athletic. I don't understand why people don't appreciate the job Frank has done.</div> Rudy Gay is one that comes to my head .. i bet houston is feeling pretty stupid. imagine TMAC YAO AND rudy
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Apr 18 2008, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Apr 18 2008, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you look at recent history, a traded draft pick is NEVER worth as much as the IDEA of the draft pick. Look at the lottery draft picks that have been dealt in draft-day trades, and they're rarely worth as much as the player that comes back.</div> 3 quick examples of trades for high picks that worked out well for the team receiving the better pick. The Utah Jazz moved up from the #6 pick to the #3 pick in 2005 The Portland Trail Blazers moved up from the #4 pick to the #2 pick in 2006 The Detroit Pistons traded Darko for what ended up as the #15 pick in 2007 </div> I'm not talking about trading lottery picks for lottery picks, or lottery picks for still-developing players, but of course you knew that. I'm talking about trading a lottery pick where the primary asset coming back is a veteran player. For example, Jeff Green for Ray Allen.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Apr 18 2008, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Apr 18 2008, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Apr 18 2008, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you look at recent history, a traded draft pick is NEVER worth as much as the IDEA of the draft pick. Look at the lottery draft picks that have been dealt in draft-day trades, and they're rarely worth as much as the player that comes back.</div> 3 quick examples of trades for high picks that worked out well for the team receiving the better pick. The Utah Jazz moved up from the #6 pick to the #3 pick in 2005 The Portland Trail Blazers moved up from the #4 pick to the #2 pick in 2006 The Detroit Pistons traded Darko for what ended up as the #15 pick in 2007 </div> I'm not talking about trading lottery picks for lottery picks, or lottery picks for still-developing players, but of course you knew that. I'm talking about trading a lottery pick where the primary asset coming back is a veteran player. For example, Jeff Green for Ray Allen. </div> Well for starters, the example you used is pretty crappy. The Sonics wanted to get worse as they wanted the fans not to show up at the arena. Next, how many such trades have there been? In 2001 the Grizzlies made out great trading SAR for the right to pick Gasol. The same year, the Bulls traded Brand for the right to pick Tyson Chandler. Now, that didn't work out well for the Bulls, however, that was the Bulls fault. As soon as Tyson was traded away from the Bulls, he developed into one of the top Centers in the NBA. In 2002, the Knicks traded Camby and the #7 pick (Nene) for Antonio McDyess. The Nuggets got the better end of that deal. In 2004, the Wizards traded the #5 pick (Devin Harris) for Antawn Jamison. While Jamison put up better stats, you also have consider that the Mavs wanted both Jamison and Walker gone at almost any cost. Even limited to your narrow scope, it is at best 50/50 and not the bleak picture you are attempting to paint.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Apr 18 2008, 02:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Apr 18 2008, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you look at recent history, a traded draft pick is NEVER worth as much as the IDEA of the draft pick. Look at the lottery draft picks that have been dealt in draft-day trades, and they're rarely worth as much as the player that comes back.</div> 3 quick examples of trades for high picks that worked out well for the team receiving the better pick. The Utah Jazz moved up from the #6 pick to the #3 pick in 2005 The Portland Trail Blazers moved up from the #4 pick to the #2 pick in 2006 The Detroit Pistons traded Darko for what ended up as the #15 pick in 2007 </div> What players came back in those trades?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Claud @ Apr 18 2008, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Rudy Gay is one that comes to my head .. i bet houston is feeling pretty stupid. imagine TMAC YAO AND rudy</div> Battier was exactly what Houston needed. That was a great trade.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 18 2008, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Apr 18 2008, 02:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Apr 18 2008, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you look at recent history, a traded draft pick is NEVER worth as much as the IDEA of the draft pick. Look at the lottery draft picks that have been dealt in draft-day trades, and they're rarely worth as much as the player that comes back.</div> 3 quick examples of trades for high picks that worked out well for the team receiving the better pick. The Utah Jazz moved up from the #6 pick to the #3 pick in 2005 The Portland Trail Blazers moved up from the #4 pick to the #2 pick in 2006 The Detroit Pistons traded Darko for what ended up as the #15 pick in 2007 </div> What players came back in those trades? </div> Well obviously Darko was in the Detroit trade. Viktor Khryapa was traded from the Blazers to the Bulls. Picks have much more value than Dumpy wants to give them credit for. However, the value is based upon the skill of the holder. The Nets made what ended up being a great decision to trade down for multiple picks in 2001 while the Jazz made a great decision to trade up in 2005.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 18 2008, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Claud @ Apr 18 2008, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Rudy Gay is one that comes to my head .. i bet houston is feeling pretty stupid. imagine TMAC YAO AND rudy</div> Battier was exactly what Houston needed. That was a great trade. </div> Don't forget, that Memphis had to agree to take Stro Swift or there was no deal.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Apr 18 2008, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Apr 18 2008, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Apr 18 2008, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Apr 18 2008, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you look at recent history, a traded draft pick is NEVER worth as much as the IDEA of the draft pick. Look at the lottery draft picks that have been dealt in draft-day trades, and they're rarely worth as much as the player that comes back.</div> 3 quick examples of trades for high picks that worked out well for the team receiving the better pick. The Utah Jazz moved up from the #6 pick to the #3 pick in 2005 The Portland Trail Blazers moved up from the #4 pick to the #2 pick in 2006 The Detroit Pistons traded Darko for what ended up as the #15 pick in 2007 </div> I'm not talking about trading lottery picks for lottery picks, or lottery picks for still-developing players, but of course you knew that. I'm talking about trading a lottery pick where the primary asset coming back is a veteran player. For example, Jeff Green for Ray Allen. </div> Well for starters, the example you used is pretty crappy. The Sonics wanted to get worse as they wanted the fans not to show up at the arena. Next, how many such trades have there been? In 2001 the Grizzlies made out great trading SAR for the right to pick Gasol. The same year, the Bulls traded Brand for the right to pick Tyson Chandler. Now, that didn't work out well for the Bulls, however, that was the Bulls fault. As soon as Tyson was traded away from the Bulls, he developed into one of the top Centers in the NBA. In 2002, the Knicks traded Camby and the #7 pick (Nene) for Antonio McDyess. The Nuggets got the better end of that deal. In 2004, the Wizards traded the #5 pick (Devin Harris) for Antawn Jamison. While Jamison put up better stats, you also have consider that the Mavs wanted both Jamison and Walker gone at almost any cost. Even limited to your narrow scope, it is at best 50/50 and not the bleak picture you are attempting to paint. </div> You left out the Nets trading a couple of draft picks for Vince Carter. actually, I read an article promoting this position, giving a number of examples. However, I don't remember if it was based on a detailed analysis or was just the subjective opinion of the author. However, it seemed pretty convincing. I don't remember where I read it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Apr 18 2008, 07:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You left out the Nets trading a couple of draft picks for Vince Carter. actually, I read an article promoting this position, giving a number of examples. However, I don't remember if it was based on a detailed analysis or was just the subjective opinion of the author. However, it seemed pretty convincing. I don't remember where I read it.</div> Neither was a lottery pick. Although the Raptors could have taken Danny Granger which would have made the trade a big win.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Main Event @ Apr 18 2008, 12:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've actually been pretty surprised by how effective Brand has been after coming back this year, probably because of the context of my perception: earlier that season I saw Nenad Krstic come back from a season ending injury, and ~1.5 seasons after his injury he's still not where he should be. Brand can rebound, and is gifted offensively, but is there anything that he can't bring to the table? Ideally we would trade RJ+ a big that leaves us with a good complimentary player. I think you hit the nail on the head with how he pairs with Kaman, and so hopefully we could trade away Krstic to fill that outside-inside relationship they had (keeping in mind that he doesn't have as much value as he could). I don't want to trade Sean. The second half the season has incurred doubts in people's minds as to what he could become, but based on the experience he's had I still feel like he could be a great young player for the future of this franchise. I'd also love to see him learn under Brand. That leaves Stromile, Boone, and Diop. Stromile is a going to be a $6 million expiring contract. Boone was our best big man this season, who was able to become a double double guy in our Nets system. Still, I've got my concerns about his durability. Also how would he function as a member of the Clippers? At least if he's packaged with Krstic he's be valuable off the bench. I'd prefer to keep Diop. I think its important we maintain our best post defender, and he's a good rebounder. So while I won't address specific trade proposals, I think if we can get away with RJ+Boone+Krstic+pick that leave us with a a reason to draft a big man in the draft, and a group of guys that can play well together.</div> Great ideas GM!
