<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 12 2007, 10:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>someone said it, one of those celtic fans</div>Point out the post where somebody said Malone was better than Bird.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pronk48 @ Jun 12 2007, 10:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nah, I doubt that he makes the HOF.</div>If Karl Malone doesn't make the Hall of Fame, it's only because he never won a ring... and that's ridiculous. I think he will though, as he should Barkley got in without a ring, why shouldn't Malone?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jun 12 2007, 10:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Point out the post where somebody said Malone was better than Bird.</div>If Larry Bird was at PF instead of McHale, Larry would be better than Malone. I'll even say that.
I consider Bird more of a 3 than a 4. Yes he played both but at the C's best it was Parrish, McHale and Bird on the front line. McHale at the 4.Bird, defies being boxed into a single posistion IMO.Bird is the best forward of all time. His game goes well beyond the numbers as it was his intelligence & nack for making the big play that set him ahead of other forwards to play the game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noballer07 @ Jun 12 2007, 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If Larry Bird was at PF instead of McHale, Larry would be better than Malone. I'll even say that.</div>But the thing is, Bird was not a 4.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticFan @ Jun 12 2007, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I consider Bird of a 3 than a 4. Yes he played both but at the C's best it was Parrish, McHale and Bird on the front line. McHale at the 4.Bird, defies being boxed into a single posistion IMO.Bird is the best forward of all time. His game goes well beyond the numbers as it was his intelligence & nack for making the big play that set him ahead of other forwards to play the game.</div> :dribble:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jun 12 2007, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Point out the post where somebody said Malone was better than Bird.If Karl Malone doesn't make the Hall of Fame, it's only because he never won a ring... and that's ridiculous. I think he will though, as he should Barkley got in without a ring, why shouldn't Malone?</div>No, I mean Duncan won't make the HOF. Unless he wins another 3-4 rings.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jun 12 2007, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>But the thing is, Bird was not a 4. :dribble:</div>Which was the reason why I said if Larry Bird was at 4. :dribble: He was definitely not a PF naturally.
Actually Bird played 4 alot. There is a reason Kevin McHale is considered one of the best 6th men of all time
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 12 2007, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>OMG, this is pissing me offPronk, shut the f*Ck upQuit actingso dumb</div>Pacers fan, he was obviously being sarcastic. Stop swearing at people left and right, by the way. I have really never seen you swear until the past 2 days, chill out with that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Jun 11 2007, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As far as defense goes, Duncan is easily one of the best low post defenders of all time. He can play great man to man and force everyone into hard shots, as well as block shots or alter shots. There is a reason why he has been the anchor of one of the best defenses of all time, and why every year he has been there, the Spurs have been one of the best defensive teams in the league. I would say there is a good margin there in between Duncan and Malone for defense. It's not like Malone poked the ball away every game either, maybe once throughout the game he would get a steal, but it wasn't all the time like you are making it out to be. For rebounding, Malone was a good rebounder, but Duncan is a great rebounder. Only once over his career, did Malone average 12 rebounds per game in a season. Duncan through ten years in the league, is averaging 11.9 rebounds, which is only .1 below what Malone was able to do for an entire season. Duncan was a better and more fundamental rebounder than Malone is. They are definately not a tie in that category. They did make the finals twice, but it wasn't like those were the only years they had to make the finals. They had the same team the year after Jordan left the league and didn't make the finals, because they couldn't get past Portland. There was a two year span where the Bulls didn't make the finals, and they couldn't win then. So it wasn't all the Bulls fault that the Jazz could not win the title, it was their fault also.</div>fine, you saw malone play D in the finals in 97 and 98 , when he was 34 and 35 years old.You didn't see him play D earlier in his career. as for Steals, he has 2045 career steals in 1476 career games. approx 1.5 spg not exactly pedestrain.regardless of his steals and blocks, it was his strength, speed and posistioning that force many PF's into bad shots or to not get the ball at all.The Margin is not as large as you precieve it to be.11.9 rebounds to Duncan in his first 10 years. 10.9 for Malone in his first ten years withh an average of 8.9 in his first year lowering the average. 1 whole rebound/game difference. Again not that big a deal.as for being a more fundamental rebounder... I'm not even sure what the means. Rebounding is rebounding. Either you get the ball or your don't. How you get it doesn't matter one bit.The Jazz have had some great years in the playoffs only to be stopped by the showtime lakers, the clyde drexler Trailblazers or the Rockets during Hakeems great run. sh*t happens those are team results not player. No one man can win a title as Lebron is finding out. Spurs are a strong team, Duncan is a huge part of that but not the only part.Malone is still miles ahead in the scoring category and has average more assits/game over a much longer period of time.Again if Duncan can continue his excellence over the next 5-6 years, then yeah I'd consider him better than Malone. But if he numbers drop off as they tend to do for players in their mid 30's then Malone is the better player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jun 12 2007, 11:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Pacers fan, he was obviously being sarcastic. Stop swearing at people left and right, by the way. I have really never seen you swear until the past 2 days, chill out with that.</div>I don't even know why this is a topic. Tim Duncan could have retired after 2003 and been a Hall of Famer.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticFan @ Jun 12 2007, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>fine, you saw malone play D in the finals in 97 and 98 , when he was 34 and 35 years old.You didn't see him play D earlier in his career. as for Steals, he has 2045 career steals in 1476 career games. approx 1.5 spg not exactly pedestrain.regardless of his steals and blocks, it was his strength, speed and posistioning that force many PF's into bad shots or to not get the ball at all.The Margin is not as large as you precieve it to be.</div>I saw him play from about the time Shaq came into the league, since that's when I first started watching, until he retired. He was never able to limit the guys he played like Duncan is able to now, he was never able to control a person one on one in the same way that Duncan does now. The only thing that he could do better than Duncan was reach around and poke balls away. Sure he forced many players into bad shots, but not as consistently as what Duncan has done over his career. There is a pretty gap between the two in the defense section.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>11.9 rebounds to Duncan in his first 10 years. 10.9 for Malone in his first ten years withh an average of 8.9 in his first year lowering the average. 1 whole rebound/game difference. Again not that big a deal.as for being a more fundamental rebounder... I'm not even sure what the means. Rebounding is rebounding. Either you get the ball or your don't. How you get it doesn't matter one bit.</div>A whole rebound per game is actually kind of big, as that is one more time he allowed his team to get the ball per game compared to what Malone was able to do. When it comes down to close games at the end, that one extra possession off of that one extra rebound can mean the difference between loosing by one, or winning by one. So I believe there is a big difference in a whole rebound per game difference especially in a close game.As for more fundamental rebounder, rebounding isn't either you get the ball or you don't. Being a fundamental rebounder is knowing to box out when you wasn't going to get the ball so that someone else on your team was going to be able to get the ball. It is jumping a certain way, grabbing the ball at your peak and coming down with it. Being a fundamental rebounder is what helps you keep being able to rebound, even when your athleticism starts to go. Around his 11th year in the league, Malone's rebounding started to slip below 10 per game, and I am sure that we will see Duncan continue to grab rebounds at well over 10 per game. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Jazz have had some great years in the playoffs only to be stopped by the showtime lakers, the clyde drexler Trailblazers or the Rockets during Hakeems great run. sh*t happens those are team results not player. No one man can win a title as Lebron is finding out. Spurs are a strong team, Duncan is a huge part of that but not the only part.</div>Malone was a great player, but he was never able to get his team over the hump and win a title. Sure it's a team effort, but Malone had some good talent around him, and should have been able to push his team through at some point. Every year it was someone else that put the Jazz out, and they wasn't able to get over the hump with Malone as the leader. Tim Duncan being the biggest reason for his championship teams, has gotten his team over the hump.
Malone at 30/1 age - 25ppg 11.5rpgDuncan at 30/31 - 20ppg / 10.6 rpgdo any of you think Duncan is going to get better? I think he will have a bigger drop off than Malone did.
Duncan has pretty much averaged 20-22 points per game consistenly over his career, so no I really don't think his 20 points per game is a sign of him dropping off at all. As for those stats, at Malone's 10th year in the league he averaged 10.6 rebounds per game, before dropping off to 9.8 his next year. I don't know how old he was at that time, but it can't be much older or younger than what Duncan is at now, considering Malone went to college for 3 years. Either which way, At Duncan's 11th year in the league, I doubt we are going to see such a huge dropoff to below 10 a game like that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Jun 12 2007, 06:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Duncan has pretty much averaged 20-22 points per game consistenly over his career, so no I really don't think his 20 points per game is a sign of him dropping off at all. As for those stats, at Malone's 10th year in the league he averaged 10.6 rebounds per game, before dropping off to 9.8 his next year. I don't know how old he was at that time, but it can't be much older or younger than what Duncan is at now, considering Malone went to college for 3 years. Either which way, At Duncan's 11th year in the league, I doubt we are going to see such a huge dropoff to below 10 a game like that.</div>Karl Malone at 34 was averaging 27ppg and 10.3rpg.At 36 he was still getting over 25ppg and 9.5rpg.At 39 the guy averaged over 20ppg. You think Duncan will be getting 20ppg at 39? You think Duncan will be playing at 39?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Jun 12 2007, 06:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Duncan has pretty much averaged 20-22 points per game consistenly over his career, so no I really don't think his 20 points per game is a sign of him dropping off at all. As for those stats, at Malone's 10th year in the league he averaged 10.6 rebounds per game, before dropping off to 9.8 his next year. I don't know how old he was at that time, but it can't be much older or younger than what Duncan is at now, considering Malone went to college for 3 years. Either which way, At Duncan's 11th year in the league, I doubt we are going to see such a huge dropoff to below 10 a game like that.</div>Also, how is 10.6 - 9.8 rpg a HUGE drop off?Duncan's last few years for rpg have looked like this12.912.411.111.010.6you wanna bet they don't drop a little again?
f*cking stats tell 10% of the story, if that. Those numbers obviously are impressive, especially for the ages Malone put them up at, but that still doesn't mean he was as complete a player as Duncan. It means he scored more than Duncan (and I still stand by what I said before, that Duncan's post game is better than Malone's).Malone scored more than Duncan and he was more physically gifted. What else does he have on him? Absolutely nothing.
