<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, so you came off as a hypocrite. Why would you go out of your way to defend such an "irrational" behavior (homosexuality)? When I state something is irrational, I'm implying that it is wrong.</div> Not true. Some people are afraid of cockroaches. That is an irrational behavior. That in itself doesn't make them morally wrong. If you infringe on another's rights without good reason (e.g. because you feel "uncomfortable" around them), than that is wrong. I personally don't consider homosexual behavior "irrational," at least no more so than heterosexual behavior. But if others think it's irrational, that's their business and we just disagree. That isn't the issue. My problem is when people use their biases to justify infringing on other's rights. There's absolutely no contradiction there, and therefore there can not be hypocrisy involved. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">We're not dealing with public elementary schools here (students from public schools don't get paid millions of dollars and aren't taken care of by a players' union). A facility can indeed be seperate and equal if rich bastards from the NBA are involved. I'm sure some homosexuals want to come out and if that happens, they might be better off in a different locker room. Anyway, it doesn't concern me to the point of suicide.</div> Then it should be their decision whether they want another locker room. They shouldn't be forced into isolation. The problem with "separate and equal" goes beyond one group not getting the financial backing another group gets. The forced separation is itself a violation of rights. If there was a basketball team in some crazy, backward city which enforced "separate but equal" locker-rooms for white and black players because the whites didn't want to be around the blacks, is that ok?
It's pretty pointless debating this issue. It all boils down to morals and yours beliefs - something which is usually not judicable. In short, I think it's gay to discuss this.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Not true. Some people are afraid of cockroaches. That is an irrational behavior. That in itself doesn't make them morally wrong. If you infringe on another's rights without good reason (e.g. because you feel "uncomfortable" around them), than that is wrong. I personally don't consider homosexual behavior "irrational," at least no more so than heterosexual behavior. But if others think it's irrational, that's their business and we just disagree. That isn't the issue. My problem is when people use their biases to justify infringing on other's rights. There's absolutely no contradiction there, and therefore there can not be hypocrisy involved. </div> Cockroaches? Really now... Heh. Btw, I said "Why would you go out of your way to defend such an "irrational" behavior (homosexuality)?"; you keep bringing up very frivolous examples (like the sky being blue for instance). Let me ask you something, is incest wrong? How does one determine that incest is wrong? If I had protected sex with my sister (so that I wouldn't have a messed up baby with her, since incest-babies come out weird on occasion), would that imply that incest is ok? In a similar fashion, that is why I disagree with homosexuality. Now if one wants to screw their sibling or some other guy, that's not my problem; I'd just appreciate some space in the locker room. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Then it should be their decision whether they want another locker room. They shouldn't be forced into isolation.</div> In that case, straight people should have the option of showering in a different locker room. That's good enough for me. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The problem with "separate and equal" goes beyond one group not getting the financial backing another group gets. The forced separation is itself a violation of rights. If there was a basketball team in some crazy, backward city which enforced "separate but equal" locker-rooms for white and black players because the whites didn't want to be around the blacks, is that ok?</div> Well that implies that the only way to solve this issue is to force gays out of the locker room. See above.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Cockroaches? Really now... Heh. Btw, I said "Why would you go out of your way to defend such an "irrational" behavior (homosexuality)?"; you keep bringing up very frivolous examples (like the sky being blue for instance).</div> Not a frivolous example. It's a counterexample. Your claim that saying someone is being irrational implies they're wrong isn't true. I don't judge someone for having reactions that are beyond their control. So, I'm not "against" people who are uncomfortable around gays simply for being uncomfortable. Thus, your charge that I should also be against gays for exhibiting an irrational behavior or unless I'm a hypocrite is unfounded. What I'm against is them using that discomfort as a justification for hindering the rights of others (gays). Do you understand now why there is no hypocrisy? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Let me ask you something, is incest wrong? How does one determine that incest is wrong? If I had protected sex with my sister (so that I wouldn't have a messed up baby with her, since incest-babies come out weird on occasion), would that imply that incest is ok? In a similar fashion, that is why I disagree with homosexuality. Now if one wants to screw their sibling or some other guy, that's not my problem; I'd just appreciate some space in the locker room.</div> Disagreeing with homosexuality (which I don't consider to be the issue here) isn't a justification for forcing gays out of the lockerroom. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In that case, straight people should have the option of showering in a different locker room. That's good enough for me.</div> As long as that different locker room isn't "straights only", fine.
durvasa, did you ever get the feeling at any point during this conversation that you were wasting your time? Apparently, huevonkiller has made his mind up on this subject and your reasoning is not going to sway him. Perhaps, his opinion of separate but equal might change over time? I don't see how having a different locker room for straights or gays can be considered equal but perhaps, huevonkiller has considered some aspects of this equation that we may have overlooked? I can't imagine what it would be like for a gay person to suffer the pressure that he or she might feel when deciding which locker room to enter when the concept of separate locker rooms is introduced into professional sports. Certainly, there won't be any consequences or repercussions from entering the "gay" locker room, right? I'm certain that athletes that use those facilities will receive the same amount of attention from marketing firms, agents, fans etc. Of course, there won't be any problems with security because our society has advanced enough to accept gays in professional sports and no one would be ignorant enough to threaten them verbally or physically, right? Of course, after a team wins a big game or championship, there should be two separate celebrations and the coach should enter both locker rooms to celebrate with both teams, right? ...hmmm, I wonder what happens if a gay player is discovered in the "straight" locker room or visa versa? Should there be any penalty? I think huevonkiller is on to something and we should give him the opportunity to eleborate on his interesting concepts and ideas.
Can't believe that somebody on this kind of money doesn't have a better public relations dude and better media consultant dude. Farewell to any post-bb media career he may have been thinking of.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Not a frivolous example. It's a counterexample. Your claim that saying someone is being irrational implies they're wrong isn't true. I don't judge someone for having reactions that are beyond their control. So, I'm not "against" people who are uncomfortable around gays simply for being uncomfortable. Thus, your charge that I should also be against gays for exhibiting an irrational behavior or unless I'm a hypocrite is unfounded. What I'm against is them using that discomfort as a justification for hindering the rights of others (gays). Do you understand now why there is no hypocrisy?</div> Homosexuality is not comparable to disliking cockroaches. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Disagreeing with homosexuality (which I don't consider to be the issue here) isn't a justification for forcing gays out of the lockerroom.</div> Who says we have to force them out? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> As long as that different locker room isn't "straights only", fine.</div> But why not? They should have a right to shower alone if the feel uncomfortable. <div class="quote_poster">nintendo Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Apparently, huevonkiller has made his mind up on this subject and your reasoning is not going to sway him. Perhaps, his opinion of separate but equal might change over time? </div> Uh, I could say the same about you. And I don't think it is pointless to continue, I have made various "compromises" and durvasa has been biased as well. He would have one believe that it is still quite probable that homosexuality is completely natural (in spite off genetic studies). Maybe you just want to get the last word in and then lock the thread? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I can't imagine what it would be like for a gay person to suffer the pressure that he or she might feel when deciding which locker room to enter when the concept of separate locker rooms is introduced into professional sports.</div> If one insults a gay person too much, then they shall be punished of course. Why should a straight person be forced to shower with a gay person? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I don't see how having a different locker room for straights or gays can be considered equal but perhaps, huevonkiller has considered some aspects of this equation that we may have overlooked?</div> What do you mean they couldn't be equal? Well if they look exactly the same, and a custodian comes out at night and cleans both of the locker rooms vigorously, then they would appear to be equal facilities. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Certainly, there won't be any consequences or repercussions from entering the "gay" locker room, right? I'm certain that athletes that use those facilities will receive the same amount of attention from marketing firms, agents, fans etc. Of course, there won't be any problems with security because our society has advanced enough to accept gays in professional sports and no one would be ignorant enough to threaten them verbally or physically, right? </div> If any threats occur, so do fines/suspensions. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Of course, after a team wins a big game or championship, there should be two separate celebrations and the coach should enter both locker rooms to celebrate with both teams, right? </div> OMG what an impossible crisis!! Wtf are you talking about? Just go onto the court and celebrate later. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> ...hmmm, I wonder what happens if a gay player is discovered in the "straight" locker room or visa versa? Should there be any penalty? I think huevonkiller is on to something and we should give him the opportunity to eleborate on his interesting concepts and ideas.</div> Hey if a gay player is in the straight locker room, it would be the same as finding a man in a woman's locker room. Obviously he's not going to be lynched, unless you believe that everyone who doesn't agree with your "gay" views is a psychotic homophobic prick. I've stated various times that this issue isn't even that important to me.
Huevonkiller, you still think the world is flat, don't you? How do you place fines or suspensions on the fans? So, you're saying that athletes should be able to shower alone if they feel uncomfortable, huh? Where do you draw the line on that? What if you're uncomfortable because all of your teammates are taller than you are? What if you're uncomfortable because you have way more body hair than all of your teammates? Have you ever had a teammate that was deaf or hard of hearing? I'm sure that might make someone else uncomfortable. Providing a completely separate facility because a multi-millionaire is uncomfortable is way over the top. This behaviour sets the tone for the rest of society. If you provide separate locker rooms at the professional level, you'll need to do the same at the college and high school level. When you get that far down the list, there's this little rule book that we folks in the states have to abide by: It's called the Constitution and unfortunately, it says that you can't have "separate but equal" locker rooms. No matter how you slice it, it comes out prejudiced. Since this issue has been decided in a major court of law, I'll move on. As far as your statements on whether homosexuality is unnatural is concerned, that's beyond the point. No matter what you believe, the gay population is not going to get any smaller. You're going to have to learn to live with them sooner or later. If you can't be in the same locker room with someone, why have a locker room at all? If folks that controlled things had your same beliefs, we might be better off if we just got rid of locker rooms altogether. All showering and preparation for games should take place at home or in the hotel room. Forget about bonding as a team in the locker room. Someone else might be uncomfortable celebrating with people that are not like them. We'll need a heavy metal locker room down the hall from the hip hop locker room. While we're at it, we definitely need a country and western locker room. After we've divided them up that way, we'll need two of each for the gays and straights.... or better yet, the comfortable and the uncomfortable. Huevonkiller, you win. You don't have to reply.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Homosexuality is not comparable to disliking cockroaches.</div> Irrelevant (even if true), because I'm not comparing the two. My initial comment was that being uncomfortable around gays in a locker-room is irrational (it is an irrational fear, comparable to other phobias like being scared of harmless insects). You're the one focused on the issue of whether homosexuality is irrational, not me. And you said that when someone says something is irrational, they are implying that it is wrong. That simply isn't true. I only have a problem with people who are uncomfortable sharing a locker-room with gays if they want to force them out or in any way deny them equal rights. There is no contradiction/hypocrisy/deception there. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Who says we have to force them out? But why not? They should have a right to shower alone if the feel uncomfortable.</div> Fine. Then make that particular locker-room single access only. Only one person can use it at a time. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Uh, I could say the same about you. And I don't think it is pointless to continue, I have made various "compromises" and durvasa has been biased as well. He would have one believe that it is still quite probable that homosexuality is completely natural (in spite off genetic studies). Maybe you just want to get the last word in and then lock the thread?</div> Incorrect. Never said that, or implied it. I said it is still possible, not that it is still probable. I said nothing about the probability. You flat out said it was impossible based on those genetic studies (hence your dispute when I said "may or may not"), and I maintained that you can't draw such a conclusion. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why should a straight person be forced to shower with a gay person?</div> That's not happening. They can choose to not shower until the gay person has left the locker-room if it's a real concern for them.
<div class="quote_poster">nintendo Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Huevonkiller, you still think the world is flat, don't you? </div> How can that be when I said I would shower with them either way and don't need a separate locker room? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> How do you place fines or suspensions on the fans? </div> You don't, ballers have to ignore them the way Artest should have ignored the cup thrower. And you can indeed kick out fans on occasion. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> So, you're saying that athletes should be able to shower alone if they feel uncomfortable, huh? Where do you draw the line on that?</div> Obviously I don't want to draw any lines, I want to get rid of them all. Please fellow. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> What if you're uncomfortable because all of your teammates are taller than you are?</div> So most men were born with the urge to be disgusted by taller people? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> What if you're uncomfortable because you have way more body hair than all of your teammates?</div> And this is comparable? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Have you ever had a teammate that was deaf or hard of hearing?</div> That's a joke right, being deaf/blind is not naturally disgusting to the majority of men and they could have suffered a horrible accident. Plus I would have no problem going out with a hot deaf chick. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'm sure that might make someone else uncomfortable. Providing a completely separate facility because a multi-millionaire is uncomfortable is way over the top.</div> Then don't, but NBA players get paid way too much, why shouldn't there be another facility? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> This behaviour sets the tone for the rest of society. If you provide separate locker rooms at the professional level, you'll need to do the same at the college and high school level.</div> Money sets the tone, as do fines and suspensions. In high school/college, gay people are probably just better off keeping their sexuality to themselves. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> When you get that far down the list, there's this little rule book that we folks in the states have to abide by: It's called the Constitution and unfortunately, it says that you can't have "separate but equal" locker rooms.</div> Men and Women have separate but equal locker rooms. And the Constitution prohibits drugs, it's not perfect. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> No matter how you slice it, it comes out prejudiced. Since this issue has been decided in a major court of law, I'll move on. </div> Really, this exact issue has been decided upon? I don't think so, the extra locker room is optional. I don't care about being PC either. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> As far as your statements on whether homosexuality is unnatural is concerned, that's beyond the point. No matter what you believe, the gay population is not going to get any smaller. You're going to have to learn to live with them sooner or later. </div> I already have; but when I can avoid them, why shouldn't I? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> If you can't be in the same locker room with someone, why have a locker room at all? If folks that controlled things had your same beliefs, we might be better off if we just got rid of locker rooms altogether. All showering and preparation for games should take place at home or in the hotel room.</div> It's inconvenient to drive home all sweaty and then shower. These things are based off of inconvenience, which leads back to my earlier point. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Forget about bonding as a team in the locker room. Someone else might be uncomfortable celebrating with people that are not like them.</div> No, I just feel uncomfortable revealing myself in front of them. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> We'll need a heavy metal locker room down the hall from the hip hop locker room. While we're at it, we definitely need a country and western locker room. After we've divided them up that way, we'll need two of each for the gays and straights.... or better yet, the comfortable and the uncomfortable. </div> Wow are you serious? These other examples you made are ridiculous. This is like saying Marijuana is a "gateway drug" (which is absolutely false); you're a hypocrite since you're the one claiming to have such an advanced view of the world (e.g. Huevonkiller, you still think the world is flat, don't you?) . <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Huevonkiller,you win. You don't have to reply.</div> Too late. I have a question for you, why is incest wrong? I would like to know your thoughts.
<div class="quote_poster">huevonkiller Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How can that be when I said I would shower with them eitherway? you just confused me with that comment. Earlier in this thread, you said that you would NOT shower with gays because you were uncomfortable being around them. Did I not read that correctly? If so, I apologize for misunderstanding what you intended to say. Obviously I don't want to draw any lines, I want to get rid of them all. Please fellow. Havind separate locker rooms is drawing a line. You're separating groups of people becasue you feel uncomfortable being around someone that's not like you. So most men were born with the urge to be disgusted by taller people? The example was extreme in an attempt at sarcasm. These reasons to be uncomfortable are as irrationable as being uncomfortable around a gay person in a locker room setting. As stated earlier in prevous posts by others, not all gay people want to "jump your bones" simply because you're the same gender. That's a joke right, you need to respect handicapped people obviously. Again, that was sarcasm. Of course, I respect handicapped people. Money sets the tone, as do fines and suspensions. In high school/college, gay people are probably just better off keeping their sexuality to themselves. Because of prejudice and ignorance, it's probably best for gay people to keep their sexuality to themselves. That's unfortunate. You're saying that it's best for them to deny who they believe themselves to be because other people may be uncomfortable if they were to expose themselves. Men and Women have separate but equal locker rooms. And the Constitution prohibits drugs, it's not perfect. Men and women have separate locker rooms because of their gender. Even that has been the subject of discussion lately. I didn't realize that the Constituion prohibited drugs. That was a new one for me. I already have; but when I can avoid them, why shouldn't I? You're right. It's your prerogative. It's inconvenient to drive home all sweaty and then shower. These things are based off of inconvenience, which leads back to my earlier point. sarcasm again. sorry. I'll post a sign in front of all future sarcastic remarks. ... sorry, I missed that one. No, I just feel uncomfortable revealing myself in front of them. ..and that's okay. It's just that the world doesn't have to change simply because you feel uncomfortable. Wow are you serious? These other examples you made are ridiculous. This is like saying Marijuana is a gateway drug; you're a hypocrite since you're the one claiming to have such an advanced view of the world (e.g. Huevonkiller, you still think the world is flat, don't you?) . Have you ever looked up the definition of the word "hypocrite". You use that word a lot and I don't think it means what you think it means. I have a question for you, why is incest wrong? I would like to know your thoughts.</div> Before anyone answers that question, please define incest.
<div class="quote_poster">nintendo Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Before anyone answers that question, please define incest.</div> Lol ok. A 35 year old brother having intercourse with his 32 year old sister. There, example defined.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> you just confused me with that comment. Earlier in this thread, you said that you would NOT shower with gays because you were uncomfortable being around them. Did I not read that correctly? If so, I apologize for misunderstanding what you intended to say. </div> It's quite simple, I said I would prefer not to shower with them, but I'm not going to break the law to make it happen. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Havind separate locker rooms is drawing a line. You're separating groups of people becasue you feel uncomfortable being around someone that's not like you. </div> Some people want to be alone. I said the room was optional. Black people were forced to eat elsewhere when they were refused service. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The example was extreme in an attempt at sarcasm. These reasons to be uncomfortable are as irrationable as being uncomfortable around a gay person in a locker room setting. As stated earlier in prevous posts by others, not all gay people want to "jump your bones" simply because you're the same gender. </div> Yes but your examples are frivolous, as I said to durvasa. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Again, that was sarcasm. Of course, I respect handicapped people. </div> K, good. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That's unfortunate. You're saying that it's best for them to deny who they believe themselves to be because other people may be uncomfortable if they were to expose themselves. </div> No, actually I was saying since College/High School kids are probably more immature, they should keep their sexuality to themselves for their own good. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Men and women have separate locker rooms because of their gender. Even that has been the subject of discussion lately. I didn't realize that the Constituion prohibited drugs. That was a new one for me. </div> But the actual concept of a separate but equal locker room can easily be achieved. Separate but equal isn't possible in the public school system. I shouldn't have said "prohibits drugs"? I don't see what's wrong about me saying that; the constitution bans illegal narcotics (like cocaine obviously), prohibition is the correct term. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> You're right. It's your prerogative. </div> Ok... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> ..and that's okay. It's just that the world doesn't have to change simply because you feel uncomfortable. </div> But who says I'm making the world change because of my feelings? Once again, the extra locker room would be optional. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Have you ever looked up the definition of the word "hypocrite". You use that word a lot and I don't think it means what you think it means. </div> And explain to me why I'm not using the world correctly. You implied that I had "old-stupid" views and such, but then you used a very ancient logic to make your case. The "gateway" logic isn't true in most cases.
<div class="quote_poster">nintendo Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">thanks for the example. Now, how about that definition that I just asked for?</div> You need to fix up your post above. Most of your comments are inside the quote box.
<div class="quote_poster">nintendo Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">thanks for the example. Now, how about that definition that I just asked for?</div> Incest: 1.sexual intercourse between closely related persons (Brothers/Sisters/Fathers/Mothers mainly). 2.the crime of sexual intercourse, cohabitation, or marriage between persons within the degrees of consanguinity or affinity wherein marriage is legally forbidden.
Regarding incest, let's make this interesting. A brother and sister who grew up in separate foster homes and didn't know each other meet in their 30s. So, they haven't developed any sort of bond as siblings. They are very attracted to each other, not knowing they're related. They're both infertile/impotent also, let's say, but are otherwise healthy physically. They date/have sex, oblivious to their blood relations. They grow to love each other. At some point, however, they finally learn that they are in fact brother/sister. Is it wrong for them to continue having sexual relations? I'd like to hear someone make that argument, without resorting to tautology ("It's wrong because brothers and sisters shouldn't have sex").
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Irrelevant (even if true), because I'm not comparing the two. My initial comment was that being uncomfortable around gays in a locker-room is irrational (it is an irrational fear, comparable to other phobias like being scared of harmless insects). You're the one focused on the issue of whether homosexuality is irrational, not me. And you said that when someone says something is irrational, they are implying that it is wrong. That simply isn't true. I only have a problem with people who are uncomfortable sharing a locker-room with gays if they want to force them out or in any way deny them equal rights. There is no contradiction/hypocrisy/deception there.</div> I was under the impression, that you stated homosexuality was quite irrational, but then chose to defend it anyway. So now you're saying it is only somewhat irrational, right? If that's the case, then your views make more sense. However, how did you determine that homosexuality was only somewhat irrational? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Fine. Then make that particular locker-room single access only. Only one person can use it at a time. </div> Hmm... why? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Incorrect. Never said that, or implied it. I said it is still possible, not that it is still probable. I said nothing about the probability. You flat out said it was impossible based on those genetic studies (hence your dispute when I said "may or may not"), and I maintained that you can't draw such a conclusion.</div> Why would you point out something that has such a low probability of being true? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> That's not happening. They can choose to not shower until the gay person has left the locker-room if it's a real concern for them.</div> What a waste of time, but that's ok with me.
<div class="quote_poster">durvasa Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Regarding incest, let's make this interesting. A brother and sister who grew up in separate foster homes and didn't know each other meet in their 30s. So, they haven't developed any sort of bond as siblings. They are very attracted to each other, not knowing they're related. They're both infertile/impotent also, let's say, but are otherwise healthy physically. They date/have sex, oblivious to their blood relations. They grow to love each other. At some point, however, they finally learn that they are in fact brother/sister. Is it wrong for them to continue having sexual relations? I'd like to hear someone make that argument, without resorting to tautology ("It's wrong because brothers and sisters shouldn't have sex").</div> No let's not use that example, let's use a more realistic one: You have a sister, that you've known for 32 years. You're 35, and she's 32. Now you want to screw her. Thoughts? And why is incest wrong in this example? Or better yet, one day you decide you want to get it on with your mom. Further thoughts? K thanks.
when did I ever use "gateway" logic? Those were your words not mine. You brought up the subject of marijuana. When did my sarcastic comments become classified as "ancient logic"? I don't understand how pointing out the fact that you're belief that it's okay to exclude a group of people from an activity because YOU happen to be uncomfortable with them is an old world view makes ME a hypocrite (?) Durvasa, thanks for pointing that out. Unfortunately, I don't know how to fix my post. I apologize for that. You'll have to forgive me. I was born before there was such a thing as color television. This internet thing is new to me
