Ok, here,s one that works for Both teams and CJ would be an eastern conf AStar. CJ & Nurk to Indiana for: Turner, Warren & Lamb
I know for a fact you've said the team is better without him and that he makes other players, like Little, worse because he's selfish. "Useless" is less hyperbolic than "selfish enough to make teammates worse," so if I accidentally added "useless" (I did think you had said that but I believe you if you say you never used that exact word), that hardly changes anything. I'm all for trading him. My point is that when making that argument, you slag him off as a player who makes teams worse, then you turn around and act like every other team would/should prefer to have him instead of their superior, two-way star.
I think people are saying that CJ makes the Blazers worse because he's paired with Dame, but would make other teams better given the opportunity to play the Dame role.
I could buy that if it wasn't for the "selfish" part. Is he only selfish when paired with Dame? I'm not responding to general sentiment, I'm commenting specifically on Nate's position(s).
If Indy doesn't like that, I'll include Nurkic and get back Sabonis, JustinHoliday, McDermott and McConnell.
All good. Since you're responding to Nate, I'll let him answer for himself. But I will say that if his position is in fact that CJ only plays selfishly when playing with Dame, I'm not sure that I would dispute that claim. Or perhaps it's as simple as saying that it's OK for the #1 option to be selfish, but not the #2 guy.
So you don't think that when CJ takes over on offense, when Dame is on the floor, that it isn't intentional? Maybe giving Dame a chance to take some plays off? I find it hard to believe that as close as the two of them are, that they haven't dissected every detail of every game over the last few years. We all know that Dame is a great leader, my guess is that he does not think CJ is hurting him or the team with his "selfish play"....or he would say so over a nice bottle of vino.
I'm not sure that makes sense. He's not using "selfish" in the context of being the top dog and finding his shot...he's using it in the context of making his teammates worse. Do we consider Lillard to be "selfish" in that context, just because he's the #1? I don't think so. I can't really read Nate's comments as anything but writing CJ off as an empty-stats player. Which, if he feels that way, is fine--but then that undercuts the idea that other teams' GMs would trade "useful stars" (i.e. stars that aren't empty stats) for CJ.
I dont think CJ plays selfish, and I guarantee you if he did, Dame would call him out on it, imo. He plays like many 2 guards do in looking for a shot and to get rolling. CJ isnt just an off the ball catch and shoot 2 guard. He does dribble alot but many high scoring guards do, including Dame. I think Dame knows CJ has to play his game to get rolling.
I wish we would play more off screen catch and shoot versus same old p&r. Nurk is better at lob city than Dame so when he gets back I want to see him high post looking for cutters or guys coming off screens.
Useless and "makes teammates worse because he's selfish" are not even remotely the same thing. I posted a meme and if you're going to infer a bunch of subtext from a meme.... well..... I don't know. You're not usually this bombastic. CJ is great at what CJ does, and that's call CJ's number. He's an amazing ISO player, one of the best in the league. The guy can score on anyone when he has it going. He also can fill up the box score, but when it comes to making his teammates better, he's horrible. He only passes when he absolute has to. Dame on the other hand will actively try to find his teammates. We have multiple players that can play shooting guard right now, and at least one of them is playing at a very high level. Maybe not as well as CJ, but well enough that he makes CJ a luxury, and a very expensive luxury. I think CJ can absolutely go somewhere else and be an AllStar. He's putting up numbers that deserve to be an Allstar, and in the East he would definitely be on the team. Does that not make him worthy of similar talent in trade? Just because we don't need him to be a #1 on our team doesn't mean that he isn't capable of being that guy on another team.
I don't know what meme you're talking about. "Team is better without him" and "useless" are very similar concepts. "Makes teammates worse because he's selfish" is a much harsher claim, so I'm not sure where you're getting "hyperbolic" and "bombastic" from. In these contexts, my perhaps-mistaken memory of you saying he was useless is hardly outside of the scope of the things we agree you said. This is my point. You're essentially saying he's a black hole scorer. Which teams are going want to trade a two-way star for a scorer who won't pass and makes the guys around him worse? Are you suggesting that some teams need and want a black hole that makes everyone around him worse because he can score a lot?
CJ an all-star in the East? Ben Simmons James Harden Kyrie Irving Khris Middleton Bradley Beal Jalen Brown Jayson Tatum Zach Lavine Malcolm Brogdon Trae Young Jimmy Butler Jrue Holiday Gordon Hayward Kyle Lowry Fred Van Vleet Terry Rozier Colin Sexton Lamelo Ball I forget what the format is....5 guards and 1 at-large that can be a guard? CJ would have to beat out 12 or 13 of those guys. and if you say that Butler and Tatum would be forwards instead of guards or at large selections, than you have to factor in Joel Embiid, Kevin Durant, Giannis, Sabonis, Siakam, Adebayo, and Vucevic (which 2 of those guys get bumped in favor of CJ?), not to mention Jerami Grant, Tobias Harris, Julius Randle, & John Collins I suppose if you assumed that moving forward CJ was going to be the player we saw for the first 12 games of the season instead of the player we saw for the first 530 games of his career he'd have a shot. But if CJ regresses back toward his norms, I can't see him beating out 12 or of the guys on those first two lists this "CJ would be an all-star in the East" narrative has been around for a while now, but I've never considered it as anything but a remote chance. Even more remote now with Harden and Durant in the east
Yeh, that would be better, although I would take Mc Connell instead of holiday, just because he is a true point guard and it would save us a few million also.
I think a lot of people in this thread are forgetting how damn good CJ was this season before the injury setback. He's also Portland's only other shot creator, which will be a welcome addition the second-half of the season to ensure Dame doesn't overly exert himself in the regular season. I do agree that GT is a starter in this league and I hope he's able to thrive at the 3 once CJ returns. I don't foresee any big deals being made at the deadline so we'll have the rest of the season to see how the roster starts to settle in once we get CJ and Nurk back.
This....CJ is better than he's ever been in Portland...added the 3 pt shot...added assists....he's really not the player he used to be...I think the CJ baggage is dated. There are players I'd trade to upgrade positions....Trent has a ton of trade value and will get paid next season if we have to match him....that's a lot of scratch for 3 guards..they'll move Simons if they can I think and maybe Zach if you get a PF in return
When CJ comes back Trent will go back to the bench I don't see him starting ahead of Jones or Covington. The reason both those are better defender then Trent at there position and with CJ back in the lineup your going need good defenders around CJ and Dame.
