<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 5 2007, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No. Stop defending T-Mac every chance that you get. The Rockets do bad without T-Mac just like ALL teams in the NBA ussually do bad without their best player. He is not a playmaker. He is a scorer. I have seen Kobe be a playmaker with the best of them, and his flashiness is part of that play making. He is a better passer. period. If you disagree, you must never watch him play.</div>You OBVIOUSLY haven't watched T-Mac the past 3 seasons. For you to limit him to just scorer tag shows you have NO idea what the hell you are talking about. When T-Mac was out, Yao was going for like 35PPG a night... why did they go 2-6 with Yao and without T-mac (and 2-8 overall)? And when Yao was out, why did Rockets go 21-10 with T-mac at only 28PPG? Because without T-Mac they missed the only consistent playmaker for the team, which made players liek Rafer Alston, Shane Battier, Luther Head, and Juwan Howard non-factors. T-Mac is the playmaker for the Rockets, and that, more than anything else, is why they will have a 5th seed this year in the playoffs. It is why they were still losing last year when T-Mac was out and Yao was at 28PPG. T-Mac's scoring is nice, but his best, and most underrated attribute, is his playmaking and ability to make those around him better. You have seen Kobe be playmaker with the best of them, but how about actually watching T-Mac play this year before speaking of him because it's glaringly obvious you don't. Ask people who watch a ton of Rockets games, Rockets fans or not, and they will sing the same praise I do of him int erms of playmaking.41nowitzness41-In terms of scoring, boith T-mac and Kobe are very similar in terms of streakiness. T-mac a bit moire than Kobe, but Kobe has nights like 9-33 as well. And as melo061 said, both guys find ways to score when they ahve bad shooting nights, as you saw after T-mac went 2-14 inf irst half last night.
His presence in general is the reason that the Rockets do better with him. You take away Kobe from the Lakers for a long period of time, and I guarantee you that they do JUST as bad as the Rockets do. If you want to say that T-Mac is the best playmaker for the Rockets, then I will just tell you that Kobe is the best playmaker for the Lakers, because its true. And to boot, he is a better one! He is flashier because he has the ability to do more with the rock than T-Mac does. Its honestly that simple....You defending him that he is a better passer is biased. And what should I label him as besides a scorer? He is a pretty good rebounder, and his defense is inconsistent at best. He doesn't put the effort in on the defensive end that Kobe does. And he is not a better playmaker than Kobe......You trying to give all these statistics saying that they are doing worse because of his "playmaking". What a joke.....Its his presence in general. It doesn't mean that he is a great playmaker.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 6 2007, 06:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>His presence in general is the reason that the Rockets do better with him. You take away Kobe from the Lakers for a long period of time, and I guarantee you that they do JUST as bad as the Rockets do. If you want to say that T-Mac is the best playmaker for the Rockets, then I will just tell you that Kobe is the best playmaker for the Lakers, because its true. And to boot, he is a better one! He is flashier because he has the ability to do more with the rock than T-Mac does. Its honestly that simple....You defending him that he is a better passer is biased. And what should I label him as besides a scorer? He is a pretty good rebounder, and his defense is inconsistent at best. He doesn't put the effort in on the defensive end that Kobe does. And he is not a better playmaker than Kobe......You trying to give all these statistics saying that they are doing worse because of his "playmaking". What a joke.....Its his presence in general. It doesn't mean that he is a great playmaker.</div>So the best center in the league, averaging 26PPG and 10RPG, isn't a presence? With T-Mac out he was around 30PPG, and the team went 2-6. Don't give me that sh*t that T-mac's presence is why they didn't win without T-Mac, because Yao is equally as large of a presence yet they didn't do sh*t this year, or last year, without T-Mac. The team works ONLY because of T-Mac's playmaking skills. He gets EVERYONE open shots. He works the pick and roll beautifully, gets it to the open man all the time, and has great court vision. Yao and T-Mac can do wahtever they want with the scoring, but without T-Mac going for 6APG and getting everyone else the shots this team would be in the crapper. Don't believe me? Ask ANY Rockets fan on here or someone who watches the games (or ask a big Kobe fan like melo061, and he'll tell you the same exact things and that he also believe T-Mac is just as good/better playmaker). Rafer Alston is a far flashier passer than T-Mac, that makes him a better playmaker? Lebron is a flashier passer than arguably the best PG of our time in JKidd, is he a better playmaker? Give me a break dude. Making plays for your teammates is far more than simply making the pass, fancy or not. It is initiating the offense, running it, and making the right decision (something T-Mac is also better at ). There is more to playmaking then just the end product (the pass).
Hahha....Obviously Yao's presence isnt as big as T-Macs if they can do just as good without him as they can with him. T-Mac gets everyone open shots because he is a scoring threat and it allows other people to get better shots. That doesn't mean he is a good playmaker....jesus you are ignorant. Ok, he has good court vision, what NBA guard doesn't have a good vision of the court? And Kobe has better court vision....He is just a better passer. I watch both of them play about the same, and Kobe is handsdown the better passer. Its not even close....Hahah....Steve Nash is a fancy playmaker. Is he better than any other people in the league? haha Look at yourself. Comparing Kobe Bryant to Rafer Alston. Grow up
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 6 2007, 08:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hahha....Obviously Yao's presence isnt as big as T-Macs if they can do just as good without him as they can with him. T-Mac gets everyone open shots because he is a scoring threat and it allows other people to get better shots. That doesn't mean he is a good playmaker....jesus you are ignorant. Ok, he has good court vision, what NBA guard doesn't have a good vision of the court? And Kobe has better court vision....He is just a better passer. I watch both of them play about the same, and Kobe is handsdown the better passer. Its not even close....Hahah....Steve Nash is a fancy playmaker. Is he better than any other people in the league? haha Look at yourself. Comparing Kobe Bryant to Rafer Alston. Grow up</div>Wow....just wow.The SAME things you said about T-Mac is the same thing that applies to Kobe in terms of pressure on them as scorers opening up other players. However fancy he makes the pass look, it is still because of the pressure that is on Kobe. That was a dumba$$ point.Look, one of the biggest Lakers fans on here says T-Mac is an equal/better playmaker, and he watches way more Lakers and Rockets games than you do. EVERY Rockets fan on here will agree with me on what I said about the Rockets and why they struggle without T-mac compared to without Yao. If you cannot accept this, with people who watch WAY more Rockets games than you saying these thigns, you are extremely ignorant. I have watched around 30 Rockets games this year, and I know what makes the team click. It is not T-Mac's presence as a scorer, as Yao offers those same qualities. It is T-mac's exceptional playmaking ability that makes this team excel and what has kept them above water with Yao out. I'm not comparing Alston to Kobe, but fancy passing doesn't make you a better playmaker at all and that is the point I'm getting at. The pass itself is only part of what it takes to be a great playmaker, and you are not understanding that point. T-mac is a much better decision maker, better at setting up the offense, and better at getting ball to open man. You say Lebron is the better playmaker than Wade for these similar reasons, so we're obviously never going to see eye to eye. But to undermine and downgrade T-Mac's playmaking abilty, whether you feel Kobe's is better or not, is just unfair and ridiculous.
Yeah your right. They are in the same boat. Just Kobe does it better...Im not just saying because he is a fancy passer that he is better. I am saying that he can make fancy passes, and they actually work. He is comfortable enough with his passing game to show it off. He can make regular passes....He just adds effect on it which makes it look better. Please dont say "look at the other laker and rocket fans and see what they say". Its quite childish....Exceptional playmaking ability? Gosh....You are trying to make him out to be a guy like Steve Nash. I am not saying that he is a bad passer Nitro. I just feel Kobe is a better one. I never knew that was such a crime, considering im sure half the people on this board would agree with me. Just go ask everyone else....hahaI understand the point of playmaking just fine. I play the game and have been around it my entire life. I know what makes a good playmaker. I am saying that Kobe has the ability to be fancy and he wont make mistakes like guys like Rafer Alston for example. He can make the normal pass, and "set up the offense", and do all the things you are prasing T-Mac for.Tracy averaged less assists per game without Yao Ming than he did when he had Yao Ming...I thought you said that his play making was what made them do so much better without Yao. Why dont you go look up how many PPG Tracy averaged without Yao and that will tell you why they have been doing good without him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 6 2007, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Tracy averaged less assists per game without Yao Ming than he did when he had Yao Ming...I thought you said that his play making was what made them do so much better without Yao. Why dont you go look up how many PPG Tracy averaged without Yao and that will tell you why they have been doing good without him.</div>Not gonna reply to the other stuff since there is no way we will see eye to eye there, but you are wrong here. T-Mac averaged less than .5APG more with Yao, it isn't like there was a big difference.Yao was putting up more PPG without T-Mac than vice versa, and was doing it much more efficiently. He attracts just as much attention as T-Mac. He makes the Rockets much better in terms of rebounding and interior defense. Yet they went 2-6 with Yao and without T-Mac. They didn't have anyone to get the other players offense and open shots, and that is important since Head, Rafer, Juwan, Battier and Deke can't create own shot unless it is forced. Yao could only pass out of the post, and that wasn't near enough. T-Mac has been amazing this year at running the offense. He gets everyone open looks and can do it in many ways. And without either T-Mac or Yao, Rafer Alston and Shane Battier combined for 2-25 BTW, not trying to prove that T-mac is a better playmaker than Kobe, but just a little something related:<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Karl pointed to Tracy McGrady who was thought of primarily as a scorer early in his career but who has expanded his game to fit a Houston team that is playing well."Tracy McGrady has grown up. Tracy McGrady gets it," Karl said, according to the Post. "And, right now, what you're saying is basically, 'When is Melo going to get it? Is it going to be next month?' As a coach, there's no one more frustrated, there's no one more angry than me, because I feel the pain."</div>
Well there were a few good points on here. And I told my friend on how Kobe owns TMac but he still doesn't listen. He thinks Kobe sucks. Probably doesn't even know who Kobe is. Also both teams are in a slump right now. I think Lakers lost Odom and Even with Yao Back the Rockets aren't still winning.
They are 1-1 with Yao back. They are somewhat in a funk, but aren't below .500 or anything in last 5-10 games like the Lakers are. Lakers are dropping fast due to Odom being out and just not playing good basketball. Rockets have had to face the Mavs twice and Spurs once, and they had 1 game without mac due to flu-like symptoms, so while they are in a slump it isn't that bad.
deff. kobe. no doubt about it. tmac will never post the same numbers of kobe. kobe is top 10 players all time
