Too 5 NBA Players All Time= Wilt, Shaq, Jordan, Magic, and Duncan

Shaq > Kareem

 

Yeah, his role was to lead his team to 11 NBA championships.

Defense and rebounding wins championships. Russel was amazing at both, especially in the playoffs. And, he could score, too - when needed. During his prime, Russell had a three year stretch where he averaged 20.8 ppg, 26.9 rpg and 5.0 apg. Some role player.

He was also one of the greatest defenders to ever play the game. He led the league in defensive win shares 11 times during his 13 year career and is the all time leader in defensive win shares. In 13 seasons, Russell accumulated 133.6 defensive win shares - more than twice the 66.4 defensive win shares Shaq totaled in 19 NBA seasons.

There is more to basketball, especially playoff basketball, than scoring. Wilt (93.9 DWS), Russell (133.6 DWS), Kareem (94.5 DWS) and Hakeem (94.5 DWS) all belong ahead of Shaq (66.4 DWS) on any list of greatest NBA centers. They all played MUCH better defense and were much better rebounders than Shaq.

BNM

 

Wilt was a much better rebounder (22.9 rpg), a better passer (4.4 apg), a better defender (93.9 DWS) and a much more dominant scorer (30.1 ppg) in his prime. He was also much more durable. The last three years of his career, at ages 34, 35 and 36 he played in all 82 games and averaged over 43 mpg - and led the league in rebounding all three years. For his entire career, he averaged 45.8 mpg.

BNM

 

Umm... no. For some reason, people don't seem to realize how dominant Kareem was in his prime. He averaged over 30 ppg 4 times (something Shaq never did). He is the all time leader in total win shares (273.4), by a large margin. Shaq's career win shares = 181.7. Kareem led the league in total win shares 9 times. Shaq did it twice. Kareem averaged over 16 rpg 4 times. Shaq's career best was 13.9 rpg (his rookie year). Kareem had a 7 year stretch where he averaged over 3.0 bpg (it would have been 11 straight years, but they didn't start keeping blocks until his 5th season). Shaq only averaged > 3.0 bpg once (again, his rookie year). Kareem averaged over 4.0 apg 8 times. Shaq's career best was 3.4 apg.

So, Kareem was a better scorer, better rebounder, better passer and better defender. What, exactly was Shaq better at????

BNM

 

If you want to skip the actual numbers and look at it in terms of relative dominance: Wilt led the league in rebounding 11 times. Shaq led the league in rebounding 0 times. I think it's pretty obvious who was the better rebounder. Given his huge size and strength advantage over his contemporaries, Shaq should have regularly led the league in rebounding, but it was never a priority for him and he just didn't put in the effort. Same with defense, where he spent most of his career coasting on the defensive end of the court.

BNM

 

And, during the prime of his career, Shaq was consistently outrebounded by 6'6" (actual 6'4.5") Charles Barkley, 6'8" Dennis Rodman and 6'8" Ben Wallace. Shaq was a very poor rebounder for his size.

BNM

 

My All Time Starting 5:

Hakeem Olajuwon
Tim Duncan
Lebron James
Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson / John Stockton

 

Kareem's career averages are skewed because he played until he was 42 - and still played 78 - 80 games a year in his late 30s and early 40s. Shaq played until he was 38, but only averaged 54 games per season over his last six years in the league. So, his career totals were not as negatively impacted by his declining late career production.

And, the one advanced stat you didn't mention is win shares. Kareem had far greater defensive win shares, offensive win shares and total win shares than Shaq, both during his prime and over the course of his career. Kareem led the league in total win shares and WS/48 9 times. Shaq led the league in both categories twice.

BNM

 

Oh please, during the prime of Shaq's career, the center position was the weakest it's ever been. With all the expansion, the talent level was extremely diluted. Sure, the early part of Shaq's career overlapped with Ewing, Robinson and Hakeem, but by the time Shaq entered his prime, those guys were all well past theirs, or out of the league. The fact that guys like Dikembe Mutombo and Ben Wallace, who both struggled to score 10 ppg, regularly made 2nd team All-NBA, tells you just how weak the center position was during Shaq's prime.

BNM

 

For about 1.5 seasons. Kareem was a better scorer, by far, but Walton did other things better. The difference was Kareem played at a very high level for nearly 20 years (19 time all-star). Walton was a 2 time all-star.

From a list of all-time great players, you better believe it does. How can you possibly rank him ahead of guys who were as good, or better, than his best, but did it over a MUCH longer period? Walton was one of my all-time favorite players, but in terms of all-time greats, no way does he belong in the Kareem, Jordan, Wilt, Kobe, Magic, Bird, etc. class.

Well, if that's the comparison, Kareem wins the "better fit at any age" comparison.

BNM

 

For 1 and 1/2 seasons, Bill Walton was the greatest Center in the history of the NBA. Bar none. Owned the game and made every player on his team better. Could take over games at whim. Was the total package: scoring, rebounding, passing, playmaking, being a floor general, hustle. Destroyed Kareem in Jabbar's prime. *sigh* what might have been if not for those feet....

 

Seriously, If that's your best argument, I rest my case.

BNM