<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Nov 13 2006, 12:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why? What's wrong with Duncan? I mean each person is definitely entitled to their own opinion, but some opinions are WRONG. Elton Brand better than Duncan? Dirk too? No. But about Duncan, what's not to like about him? Is it because you like the Suns and San Antonio beats them? That's the only thing I can come up with. He is the best PF in the history of the NBA, he's easily a top 5 player in this league, he's a great guy, a great teammate, does everything on both ends of the floor, 2-time NBA MVP, he's won 3 rings and has won the Finals MVP award in all of them, etc. He's done so much and he's not a bad guy. I don't understand why you don't like him.And regardless of how much you like him or not, how can you not recognize his greatness? You liking/disliking of a player shouldn't reflect on their skill level. To say Elton Brand is better than Duncan (or Dirk, for that matter) is so wrong.Are you serious?</div>Right, like you said some opinions are wrong... Yours being one of them in my mind I never said I could argue Duncan not being a good player (see above and you'll see I said he's talent, but over-rated as well)... Scroll up, and you'll see that I can't argue that fact (I had no LOGICAL argument for my opinion, that's all it is: an opinion)... I just can't stand that man... There's something about him I don't like at all... I've NEVER liked San Antonio (even before they won in 1999).... So you can stop assuming things or trying to put words into my mouth that I've already cleared up. I can agree to disagree with your point of him being the "best PF ever"... Can you?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noah @ Nov 13 2006, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Right, like you said some opinions are wrong... Yours being one of them in my mind </div>You'd have to think you are very wrong when any other even semi-knowledgable basketball fan (hell, ask people on this message board) disagrees with you.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I never said I could argue Duncan not being a good player (see above and you'll see I said he's talent, but over-rated as well)... Scroll up, and you'll see that I can't argue that fact (I had no LOGICAL argument for my opinion, that's all it is: an opinion)... I just can't stand that man... There's something about him I don't like at all... I've NEVER liked San Antonio (even before they won in 1999).... So you can stop assuming things or trying to put words into my mouth that I've already cleared up. I can agree to disagree with your point of him being the "best PF ever"... Can you?</div>See... you can't even point out why you don't like him. It's just "something about him." And I never put any words in your mouth. You saying Duncan is overrated and not as good as people think is bullsh**. In fact, it seems that he doesn't get enough credit, now that I think about it.But in closing, once again, it's absured to say that Elton Brand (who I love, who is extremely underrated, and a top 10 player) is better than Tim Duncan. It really is. And again - Dirk too? A healthy T-Mac? KG? Iverson? Give me a break. That's a homer pick and you know it.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>For me its;1. Dywane Wade2. Lebron James3. Kevin Garnett4. Kobe Bryant5. Paul Pierce</div>Again, Paul Pierce over Tim Duncan? Dirk? Nash? T-Mac when healthy? Iverson? Even Brand? Come on LT lol. I am a Celtic fan too, but PP is not a top 5 player. He's arguably top 10, he's most likely 11 or 12.Also, Wade over LeBron and Kobe? Kobe at #4? Eh...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Nov 13 2006, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You'd have to think you are very wrong when any other even semi-knowledgable basketball fan (hell, ask people on this message board) disagrees with you.</div>But what do I give a shite about what others think? I don't care if you or anyone else "thinks I'm wrong"... I believe I'm right, it's called HAVING AN OPINION. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>See... you can't even point out why you don't like him. It's just "something about him." And I never put any words in your mouth. You saying Duncan is overrated and not as good as people think is bullsh**. In fact, it seems that he doesn't get enough credit, now that I think about it.</div>I think he's a douchebag... I ALREADY STATED I don't have a "logical" reason to back up my thoughts... It's just how I feel... I loathe the Spurs, and I can't stand Tim Duncan. Period. I'm sorry you don't like my opinion, but no amount of "look at the numbers/everyone disagrees with you" arguments will get me to change my mind, so you might as well quit while you're ahead. I can agree to disagree... Can you?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nba dogmatist @ Nov 12 2006, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Bron is the better scorer, more under control, better passer. the only reason wade has had more success winning is because his team is stacked.</div>Better scorer can be argued (Wade is more consistent with his PPG and FG % from team to team, has shown he can totally rely on midrange jumpshot to consistently get his points, arguably better at driving to basket, generally more efficient). More under control, I agree. The playmaking of each can easily be argued as well (Bron has better court vision, but Wade is better at penetrating and dishing to open man and really creating a lot of scoring options through his slashing). And his stacked team totally flopped in the Finals. Shaq was averaging 14PPG, and outside of Walker everyone else was under their averages. Not to mention Dallas was clearly a better overall team. When they were down 0-2, and down by 10 with 5min to go in 4th of game 3, who took over and averaged 40PPG through next 4 games, including a few game tying and winning shots? DWade. He has done that before in season and at times in playoffs throughout his career, but that performance in Finals is the best moment I can show to you why I rank Wade so highly. DWade is clearly the better defender, far more clutch, and has been a winner ever since his Marquette days. Even in his 1st year he raised his play big time in playoffs, hitting 2 game winners and averaging over 20PPG against the league leading Pacers. If it wasn't for his injury, they would have made the Finals in 2005. If it wasn't for his 30PPG on 70% shooting through the 1st 5 games against Detroit, the Heat may have not even gotten to Finals this year. Also what is very underrated is despite Shaq missing around 30 game slast year, coaching changes, and other injuries to various players, he really kept that team going and gave them some amazing performances (17 straight points including GW against Pistons was the Heat's turnaround for the season). His numbers are the best all around in league for swingmen next to Bron. So you can definately make a case for Wade being the better player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>But what do I give a shite about what others think? I don't care if you or anyone else "thinks I'm wrong"... I believe I'm right, it's called HAVING AN OPINION. </div>My friend once said out loud that Antoine Walker was better than Chris Bosh (he said this last year). It's his opinion, but he he right? No. I don't have a problem with you not liking Duncan, but you are using your liking of a player to determine his NBA status, and that's wrong.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I think he's a douchebag... I ALREADY STATED I don't have a "logical" reason to back up my thoughts... It's just how I feel... I loathe the Spurs, and I can't stand Tim Duncan. Period. I'm sorry you don't like my opinion, but no amount of "look at the numbers/everyone disagrees with you" arguments will get me to change my mind, so you might as well quit while you're ahead.</div>LOL I don't see how he's a "douchebag." He's an awesome guy. Whatever. And like I said above, you are using your liking of Duncan to determine his status. It shouldn't be that way. You may not like him, but you still have to give credit where it's due. Tim Duncan is probably the best PF ever to play the game, and he's certainly the best of the last 10 years and the best now.I will quit because you are correct, I won't change your mind. But it's still wrong, sorry bro. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I can agree to disagree... Can you?</div>I'm still very confused about the meaning of this question.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Nov 13 2006, 02:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And regardless of how much you like him or not, how can you not recognize his greatness? You liking/disliking of a player shouldn't reflect on their skill level. To say Elton Brand is better than Duncan (or Dirk, for that matter) is so wrong.Are you serious?</div>I really think a lot of you overrate Tim Duncan.Don't get me wrong he is a GREAT PF one of the best out there. But he is NOT top 5 in the NBA so many players are better then him now. I put Howard on my list because he is tearing it up so far this year is not it would of been Pierce or Gilbert for #5. Duncan has done so much yes but come on now better then Iverson? Kobe? Bron? I don't see that happing.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Nov 13 2006, 10:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm trying to figure out how you can put Dwight Howard in your top five players, and then have the nerve to say that Tim Duncan is not a top five player in the league. Dwight Howard is not even one of the top five big men in the league, let alone top five players in the league. Howard's offensive game is no where near being refined enough to put him in the top five players in the league. He can't shoulder an offensive scoring load by himself, and he can't have the offense ran consistently through him yet, whereas Tim Duncan can be called upon to shoulder the scoring load if need be, and he can have the offense ran throug him. On the defensive end, he can anchor the defense just as well as Dwight Howard does, maybe even better. The only thing that Howard is better at than Duncan is rebounding, and again, Duncan is a very good rebounder.As for the second paragraph, you can use numbers, but that can't be the only thing that you use to say why Michael Jordan was such a great player in NBA history. If you use numbers, then Allen Iverson is pretty close to Jordan with career averages of 28 points per game, 6.1 assists per game, 4 rebounds per game, and 2.3 steals per game.</div>Howard is top 5 in the NBA in Big Man, if u think other wize thats crazy he is a beast and he is very young.Duncan is great nothing on him, No Howard is not better then him but Howard is up there and still very young.If ANYONE thinks Jordan is not the best player of all time I am sorry but there is something wrong with you.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Larry Hughes @ Nov 13 2006, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I really think a lot of you overrate Tim Duncan.Don't get me wrong he is a GREAT PF one of the best out there. But he is NOT top 5 in the NBA so many players are better then him now. I put Howard on my list because he is tearing it up so far this year is not it would of been Pierce or Gilbert for #5. Duncan has done so much yes but come on now better then Iverson? Kobe? Bron? I don't see that happing.</div>Howard has really only played well in two games this year, against the T'wolves and the Bulls. Minus those two games he has not played well, particularly on offense. He has been turning the ball over alot, and looks very limited with his offensive moves. What worries me the most, is he is so right hand dominate and can barely use his left hand, when he has to go left it's a turn over ALOT of times. Not only that, teams are figuring out his moves alot. They know when he gets the ball on the right side of the basket, what he wants to do is fake towards the middle with one dribble or just a step fake, then pivot back towards the baseline and try to lay the ball up or dunk. If he gets the ball on the left side of the basket, he is going to do the same one or two dribbles left or just a step fake with his right leg, then pivot back towards the middle and hook or lay it in. There are a good amount of times that he almost throws the ball at the backboard and it's way to hard, and the ball doesn't go in.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Larry Hughes @ Nov 13 2006, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I really think a lot of you overrate Tim Duncan.Don't get me wrong he is a GREAT PF one of the best out there. But he is NOT top 5 in the NBA so many players are better then him now. I put Howard on my list because he is tearing it up so far this year is not it would of been Pierce or Gilbert for #5. Duncan has done so much yes but come on now better then Iverson? Kobe? Bron? I don't see that happing.Howard is top 5 in the NBA in Big Man, if u think other wize thats crazy he is a beast and he is very young.Duncan is great nothing on him, No Howard is not better then him but Howard is up there and still very young.If ANYONE thinks Jordan is not the best player of all time I am sorry but there is something wrong with you.</div>I'm pretty sure, I am the only person on this board that has watched almost every game that Dwight Howard has been in since he was rookie. Duncan, Brand, Ming, Garnett and Nowitzki are all better, and there is a very good case for Bosh and Jermaine O'neal being better than Howard. He is just way to limited offensively, since he has few moves, and no shot from outside the paint on him to be in the same category as the first five I mentioned. I never said that Jordan isn't the best, I believe Jordan is the best, and that has always been my hero. I just said that you can't use only his numbers to say he is the best, which is what you said in that paragraph. If you used only numbers, then alot of players look as good as Michael Jordan.
[quote name='CelticBalla32' post='197323' date='Nov 13 2006, 02:18 PM']you are using your liking of a player to determine his NBA status, and that's wrong.And like I said above, you are using your liking of Duncan to determine his status. It shouldn't be that way. You may not like him, but you still have to give credit where it's due. Tim Duncan is probably the best PF ever to play the game[/quote]Let me see if I can spell this Motherf*cker out for you, one FINAL time:[quote name='Noah' post='197049' date='Nov 12 2006, 11:41 PM']I'm not saying he's not talented[/quote][quote name='Noah' post='197160' date='Nov 13 2006, 08:43 AM']I never said I could argue Duncan not being a good player (see above and you'll see I said he's talent, but over-rated as well)... Scroll up, and you'll see that I can't argue that fact [/quote]Stop assuming bullsh** things that aren't true, when I've disproved your statements for the 3rd time now! I'M NOT SAYING TIM DUNCAN SUCKS, OR DOESN'T DESERVE THE SUCCESS HE'S ATTAINED!!!!!!! That STILL doesn't mean I have to like him... AND that still doesn't mean I think he's the "Best PF ever"... I think that's a load o' horse-shite.... That is YOUR fu*kin' opinion man, and you're welcome to it... Obviously you can't concede that someone doesn't AGREE with YOUR opinion... I don't give two gaddamns whether or not you agree with mine... I'm just settin' the record straight, so you can't POSSIBLY mis-understand me after this post.
He is still young and there were what 5 games so far this season and he played pretty well in all of them. Well the Highlights on NBA TV say so.Your right he shouldn't be on my list of top 5 but I just went by the 1st 5 games this season. Gilbert or Pierce would be my #5.Jordan is the best and he will always be the best no one will ever come close to him bank on it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Larry Hughes @ Nov 13 2006, 06:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He is still young and there were what 5 games so far this season and he played pretty well in all of them. Well the Highlights on NBA TV say so.Your right he shouldn't be on my list of top 5 but I just went by the 1st 5 games this season. Gilbert or Pierce would be my #5.Jordan is the best and he will always be the best no one will ever come close to him bank on it.</div>He has played in 8 games so far this season. He has played well in the past two, and three of the 8, but those highlights are deceiving. Trust me, he has not played like a top 5 player, or a top 5 big man in the league. Last year was much the same way, he had alot of really good games, but he also had alot of really horrible games with lots of turnovers. Your right he is young, and he will get better than most of those big men in my opinion, and I feel will turn into a top five player in this league. But right now, he is not even close, even tonight when he had a good night he still showed how limited he is offensively. There was alot of times he couldn't shoot, or wouldn't because Perkins had him out of his comfort zone. Once he works on that stroke a bit just a little ways away from the basket like Brand did, and works on being able to use that left hand just a bit more, he will be unstoppable.
