<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SunnyD @ Jul 16 2006, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>1. Kobe Bryant2. Dwyane Wade3. Tracy McGrady4. Paul Pierce5. Vince Carter6. Ray Allen7. Ben Gordon8. Micheal Redd9. Rip Hamilton10. Larry Hughes Honorable Mentions:Jason RichardsonSteve FrancisJoe JohnsonManu Ginobili</div>2 ofthe bottom 4 in this list suck compared to 3 of the honorable mentions. Ben Gordon is good but how do you put him higher than Jason Richardson who averaged well over 20 points this year. Richard Hamilton is one of the most overrated players in the league. He is an overrated defender and he cant get to the hole very well. Larrry Hughes is also very overrated IMO. During the detroit series, he was nearly non existant after he came back from his mothers funeral. Jason Richardson and Joe Johnson I think should replace Ben Gordon and Larry Hughes and i will leave Rip on that list just because there is nobody else...1. Kobe Bryant2. Tracy McGrady(when healthy)3. Dwayne Wade4. Paul Pierce5. Vince Carter6. Ray Allen 7. Joe Johnson8. Jason Richardson9. Michael Redd10. Richard Hamilton(I will replace him when i think of another player)
1. Kobe Bryant2. Dwyane Wade3. Tracy McGrady4. Allen Iverson (I consider him more of a SG than PG)5. Paul Pierce6. Vince Carter7. Ray Allen8. Michael Redd9. Jason Richardson10. Joe Johnson
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Wolf @ Jul 16 2006, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dwyane Wade plays the passing lanes well because he is fast. So what? Pierce is a way better man to man defender. I don't know why you have this idea that Pierce is a bad defender. Pierce has a big body, long arms and a pretty good basketball IQ.Of course, Dwyane Wade is going to get more popularity because of the situation he is in, but Pierce is one hell of a player and I'd take him over Wade right now.</div>Wade does more then just play the passing lanes. That is AI. For the longest time Pierce was lazy and overweight. He kind of got under control last year, but he isn't a top defender or close to it.Just because you have a big body and long arms and a good b-ball IQ doesn't make you a good defender. I point to Carmelo Anthony.Pierce is a very good player. I never said he wasn't. He just isn't the player Wade is, with or without a championship. Pierce in all his ablity cannot even lift the Celtics to a mere 8th seed in the weak eastern conference.Never mind salary, but if you go to Danny Ainge and tell him he can trade Pierce straight up for Wade he'd fall over in shock (of excitment). I have no doubt about that. No doubt.
Carmelo doesn't have the attitude or IQ that Pierce has.I don't care if Danny Ainge would do the trade or not. My post is about MY opinion, not Danny Ainge's or yours. I really couldn't care less what Ainge or yourself thinks about it. I personally would take Pierce over Wade because I find Pierce a better leader and more well rounded.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Wolf @ Jul 16 2006, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Carmelo doesn't have the attitude or IQ that Pierce has.I don't care if Danny Ainge would do the trade or not. My post is about MY opinion, not Danny Ainge's or yours. I really couldn't care less what Ainge or yourself thinks about it. I personally would take Pierce over Wade because I find Pierce a better leader and more well rounded.</div>Statistically (during the regular season) Wade has most of the stats in his favor or they were even except 3 point shooting and Pierce gets 1 more rebound per game. +/- is in Wade's favor. If Pierce is a good leader, again why can't he lead his team to at least an 8th seed in the playoffs? Does a good leader come into a season overweight? Lazy? Both of what Pierce has been in the past. Having a good b-ball IQ doesn't make someone a good defender. Steve Nash has an incredible IQ on the court and he is a horrible defender. Pierce is not a better defender then Wade now or in the past. Yes that is my opinion.Again if Pierce is such a good player and leader, he should lead his team into the playoffs, not miss it them by 7 games.
[quote name='SunnyD' date='Jul 16 2006, 09:10 PM' post='116768']1. Kobe Bryant2. Dwyane Wade3. allen iverson4. ray allen5. jason richardson6. micheal redd7. joe johnson8. boris diaw is listed as guard but is a point forward9. manu 10. stoakvich is soon to be shooting guard desmonds there SFHonorable Mentions:Vince is a forwardpierce is a forwardgilbert is ther pg on depth charttmac forward
Wow, I dont think you put Larry Hughes over J Rich after last season.. :no1:The aftermath, Vince Carter is obviously a 2. Richard Jefferson plays SF. It isg-kiddsg-cartersf-jeffersonpf-collinsc-krsticAs for Pierce, you could call him a guard, because he plays the 2 now that Wally is in Boston.
1. Kobe Bryant2. Allen Iverson(I also consider him more of a SG than a pg)3. Dwyane Wade4. Tracy McGrady5. Paul Pierce6. Vince Carter7. Ray Allen8. Micheal Redd9. Jason Richardson10.Ben Gordon Honorable Mentions:Rip HamiltonSteve FrancisJoe JohnsonBonzi WellsManu Ginobili
Paul Pierce's team missed the playoffs this year because the team was in turmoil. They went into rebuilding mode and the roster was full of young, inexperienced players. You had guys like Delonte West, Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins playing. He didn't have the luxury of having other veterans or proven players on his team. The team just wasn't very talented. After the Minnesota trade they started to play a little better and then Wally got shut down for the rest of the year.The difference between Pierce and Nash is simple. Nash is weak and he gets pushed around. Meanwhile, Pierce has a great combination of quickness and strength to go along with that IQ. He can guard a lot of guys in this league and do a damn good job doing it.Pierce has carried his team to the Eastern Conference Finals before. Pierce is a great leader, he is a fighter and an amazingly talented player. Pierce has better range than Wade, he has better post moves than Wade and they both get to the free throw line consistently. Sure, Dwyane Wade has the ring and the popularity and that is probably why most people view him as the better individual player.I guess Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson and Kobe Bryant aren't good leaders because they have all missed the playoffs atleast once in their careers.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jul 16 2006, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>and he won the Finals.</div>The last time I looked, and pardon me if it has changed, the Miami Heat won the championship. One man does not do it by himself.
[ur right my bad he was a sf in toronto but peirce is a sf after antione left wally is ther 2 on the team dpth chart
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Wolf @ Jul 16 2006, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Paul Pierce's team missed the playoffs this year because the team was in turmoil. They went into rebuilding mode and the roster was full of young, inexperienced players. You had guys like Delonte West, Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins playing. He didn't have the luxury of having other veterans or proven players on his team. The team just wasn't very talented. After the Minnesota trade they started to play a little better and then Wally got shut down for the rest of the year.The difference between Pierce and Nash is simple. Nash is weak and he gets pushed around. Meanwhile, Pierce has a great combination of quickness and strength to go along with that IQ. He can guard a lot of guys in this league and do a damn good job doing it.Pierce has carried his team to the Eastern Conference Finals before. Pierce is a great leader, he is a fighter and an amazingly talented player. Pierce has better range than Wade, he has better post moves than Wade and they both get to the free throw line consistently. Sure, Dwyane Wade has the ring and the popularity and that is probably why most people view him as the better individual player.I guess Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson and Kobe Bryant aren't good leaders because they have all missed the playoffs atleast once in their careers.The last time I looked, and pardon me if it has changed, the Miami Heat won the championship. One man does not do it by himself.</div>I hope you were being sarcastic
Szczerbiak really isn't quick enough to guard the opposing team's 2 though. I consider Pierce a shooting guard/small forward hybrid. He has the strength and quickness to guard either.
1. Kobe Bryant2. Dwayne Wade3. Paul Pierce4. Tracy McGrady5. Vince Carter6. Ray Allen7. Michael Redd8. Ben Gordon9. Joe Johnson10. Rip Hamilton Like it or not allen Iverson is a PG right now. Pierce is defenitely a SG as Wally cannot play that position. I don't get the big deal with Tracy McGrady. He's never made a playoff run and is always injured. Sure he can light it up, but he can't help his team when he's on the bench. He's also soft. While Pierce alone isn't enough to lift the Celtics, Wade couldn't carry the Heat by himself either. You have them trade places and you'd get the same result. I gave the edge to Wade because he took over in the finals and Pierce hasn't had a performance of that calibur before, but he's also never been given the oppertunity to.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LakersFan247 @ Jul 16 2006, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I hope you were being sarcastic</div>Yes, that comment was in a sarcastic tone.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Wolf @ Jul 16 2006, 11:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Carmelo doesn't have the attitude or IQ that Pierce has.I don't care if Danny Ainge would do the trade or not. My post is about MY opinion, not Danny Ainge's or yours. I really couldn't care less what Ainge or yourself thinks about it. I personally would take Pierce over Wade because I find Pierce a better leader and more well rounded.</div>Better leader and more well rounded?!?Wade is better scorer (higher PPG on better FG %), way better passer, better playmaker, equal defender (if not better), and wayyyy better leader. Pierce has done nothing without Walker. In Wade's rookie season, he led team to 2nd round and bloomed as a star. 2 years ago with Shaq out he led Heat to sweep of Wizards with career high in points one game. Then this past year he single handedly beat the Mavs in the finals, with Shaq only getting 13PPG and being a near non-factor. Team was down 0-2 and totally exploded, with incredible next 4 games, bringing team back with 4th quarter deficits twice.
[quote name='Nitro1118' post='117067' date='Jul 17 2006, 12:40 AM']Better leader and more well rounded?!?[/quote]Yes. Offensively, their stats are very similar (0.4ppg difference and 2% difference). The major difference, in my mind, is how Pierce gets his points. He can score from anywhere on the court. He can take on you block, he can drive past you and run you over or he can hit that mid-range jumper all the way past the three point line. He has the whole package offensively. Dwyane Wade has yet to develop that jumper and range so anything past the mid-range game is questionable. Now, Wade is a hell of an offensive player but I'd take Pierce's versitality. Pierce gets almost 5 assists per game and he is the small forward/shooting guard. Dwyane Wade plays the off-guard but he handles the ball and sets up the offense more times than not so he has more chances to get those assists, too. Is Wade really the better "passer"? I don't know, mostly because I have no idea what that even means. How do you judge how good of a "passer" someone is? Yes, Wade is a great playmaker. As you know, I disagree. Once again, I disagree. Dwyane Wade didn't have to be a leader all by himself this year because he had Pat Riley and Shaquille O'Neal to help him out. Those two are great leaders. It takes a lot of pressure off Wade in the locker room and on the floor because he knows those two can help carry the load. Paul Pierce is one of the best leaders in the game. How many years has he played without Walker? About two years. You aren't giving much of a sample size, are you? What has Allen Iverson done without Larry Brown? Are you going to say that Iverson is nothing without Brown? That team was a pretty talented team in a very weak conference. They beat out the freaking Hornets in the first round. Give me a break. It was a great series and a great time for Dwyane Wade but it's not like they knocked out the champs. The East was awful that year. Career high in points in one game against the Wizards? Wizards aren't capable of playing defense. I'm not saying I'm not impressed with Wade's accomplishments, but come on. I'm not going to concede defeat because he scored a lot of points against the Wizards. Yes, Wade was unbelievable in that series. He got a lot of calls that went his way and that isn't a discredit to him but that is the facts. He took over and he made sure his team would come away with the title. I'm not knocking Wade at all. For some reason you felt the need to make a post listing Wade's accomplishments. I never said Wade wasn't a great player. I simply said Pierce is a better individual basketball player.
[quote name='Mr Wolf' post='117069' date='Jul 17 2006, 01:54 AM']Offensively, their stats are very similar (0.4ppg difference and 2% difference). The major difference, in my mind, is how Pierce gets his points. He can score from anywhere on the court. He can take on you block, he can drive past you and run you over or he can hit that mid-range jumper all the way past the three point line. He has the whole package offensively. Dwyane Wade has yet to develop that jumper and range so anything past the mid-range game is questionable. Now, Wade is a hell of an offensive player but I'd take Pierce's versitality.[/quote]Wade is better driver and cutting through defense, and midrange I'd say it's equal. Pierce has a 3 point shot, but it isn't nearly enough for me to put him over Wade. By their passing skills. I don't call it playmaking only because playmaking involves more than just passing. Maybe not this year, but last year he did it without Shaq in playoffs, and 2 years ago led that average team to a near upset of 60 win Pacers. And once again, with Shaq averaging only 13PPG in finals, team down 0-2 while being down by over 10 with 5min to go, Wade took over. HE was the leader, and ddi it throughout finals. Would a great leader get ejected from an extremely important OT game vs Pacers like Pierce did last year? Seriously, Pierce had always been floor leader for the Celtics, but rarely ever the vocal leader. He has never shown much in playoffs, and he just isn't a great leader. Iverson is also averaging 33/8 and was in playoff hunt this past year. Pierce's stats are worse, team wasn't in hunt, and last year before Walker came he had one of his worst statistical seasons. And having a great coach is much more an advantage of role players. AI has played better wihout LB. Playing without a star player next to you is much more difficult, and Pierce still has a ways to go to be on top level swingmen in league. Wade hit a GW that series, and in 2nd round he really led that team to a near upset of the team with the best record in league. East also won that championship, mind you. And it was a talented team, but they were a bunch of players that had gotten nowhere in their careers. Wade was the X-factor, that leader who helped them be much better players. He did it throughout the series without Shaq, proving he could lead team on court in playoffs. Pierce still hasn't done anything like that (and East of 2001-2003 was even worse). But there is nothing that proves Pierce is better individual player. This year he was like Kobe, lots of young talent with no other scoring options so he had a great individual season. For 3 seasons in a row before that he was declining, and his teams won more. Wade is a true star, did it in playoffs vs Wizards, Pistons 2 years in a row, and on biggest stage of them all. His stats are better, and has a longer list of accomplishments in 3 seasons than Pierce ever will unless he gets traded to a great team.
Pierce has hit game winning shots. Pierce has gone to the Eastern Conference Finals. Pierce's PPG, APG and RPG all go up in the postseason. Pierce has played in 37 playoff games in his career.Walker is not a star player. I have no idea why you have this thought in your head that Walker made Pierce. What has Walker done without Pierce? He has gone on and become a ROLE PLAYER.
