Pierce is an all-star player. Dwyane Wade is a superstar player. Even Danny Ainge said that about 2 years ago about Pierce.Pierce is a good player, dont get me wrong. But the Lebrons, Wades, Kobes, ect. are history setters.
Pierce isn't a superstar? The problem I have now is that the media controls who is great and who isn't. If ESPN force fed us Paul Pierce people would think the same way I do. That's just how it goes. Wade is more marketable and more popular.
1. Kobe Bryant2. Dwyane Wade3. Tracy McGrady4. Vince Carter5. Paul Pierce6. Ray Allen7. Ben Gordon8. Micheal Redd9. Rip Hamilton10. Jason Richardson
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Wolf @ Jul 17 2006, 02:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Pierce has hit game winning shots. Pierce has gone to the Eastern Conference Finals. Pierce's PPG, APG and RPG all go up in the postseason. Pierce has played in 37 playoff games in his career.Walker is not a star player. I have no idea why you have this thought in your head that Walker made Pierce. What has Walker done without Pierce? He has gone on and become a ROLE PLAYER.</div>None of his playoff accomplishments are nearly as impressive as what Wade has done in the playoffs.Walker is an all star player, well was one. He was hovering around 20PPG/8-10RPG for awhile there, and did his job very well. Hell, even last year he brought them to playoffs after he was traded from Hawks and he played great.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (theaftermath770 @ Jul 17 2006, 01:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>[ur right my bad he was a sf in toronto but peirce is a sf after antione left wally is ther 2 on the team dpth chart</div>Youre an idiot. Mo Pete played SF, well Vince played the two in Toronto. Dont even talk anymore. Wally isnt quick enough to play the 2, so Pierce plays the 2 now that Wally is on the team..
I hate Walker, the man cant shoot, it looks like he just throws the ball up and hopes for the best. Like common how can a 3pt shooter be hovering at .500 from the line?
wow mr. wolf, you're putting up quite a fight for Paul Pierce. I haven't been readi ng much of it, but hey, you should post in the Cs section more often. :happy0144:I agree completely with your point on the media making superstars. Pierce's play isn't incredibly exciting; he's not very flashy, doesn't throw down sick dunks, he just plays basketball. The media is drawn away from that. Pierce doesn't get nearly the recognition he deserves, by the media or fans.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nba dogmatist @ Jul 17 2006, 03:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>wow mr. wolf, you're putting up quite a fight for Paul Pierce. I haven't been readi ng much of it, but hey, you should post in the Cs section more often. :happy0144:I agree completely with your point on the media making superstars. Pierce's play isn't incredibly exciting; he's not very flashy, doesn't throw down sick dunks, he just plays basketball. The media is drawn away from that. Pierce doesn't get nearly the recognition he deserves, by the media or fans.</div>See, that is where i think you are wrong dogma. Fans do appreciate Paul Pierce if you are a true basketball fan. Not just a guy that enjoys seeing great dunks and exc.... Paul Pierce plays hard and puts everything out on the court. He is an amazing talent that cant go unrecognized if you are watching him. He is one of those guys IMO, that if he wanted to be one of those flashy guys that the media loved, he could be. Also, i think he could average 30 points if he wanted to as well. He just doesnt choose to shoot that much.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr Wolf @ Jul 16 2006, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Paul Pierce's team missed the playoffs this year because the team was in turmoil. They went into rebuilding mode and the roster was full of young, inexperienced players. You had guys like Delonte West, Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins playing. He didn't have the luxury of having other veterans or proven players on his team. The team just wasn't very talented. After the Minnesota trade they started to play a little better and then Wally got shut down for the rest of the year.The difference between Pierce and Nash is simple. Nash is weak and he gets pushed around. Meanwhile, Pierce has a great combination of quickness and strength to go along with that IQ. He can guard a lot of guys in this league and do a damn good job doing it.Pierce has carried his team to the Eastern Conference Finals before. Pierce is a great leader, he is a fighter and an amazingly talented player. Pierce has better range than Wade, he has better post moves than Wade and they both get to the free throw line consistently. Sure, Dwyane Wade has the ring and the popularity and that is probably why most people view him as the better individual player.I guess Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson and Kobe Bryant aren't good leaders because they have all missed the playoffs atleast once in their careers.</div>KG, McGrady, AI, and Kobe's leadership skills have been questioned numerous times through the NBA world. So yes, their leadership qualities are questionable. But none of those guys came into a season out of shape and lazy.I viewed Wade a better individual player (and team player) long before he won the title. Again Wade doesn't come into a season overweight and content on making his money. Something Pierce has done before. I wouldn't consider Pierce quick. He isn't someone that you run a high temp offense around. He is a better post player, but not by much. He is also taller and bigger. Wade has very good post moves if he needs them. I don't argue that Pierce has better range. That is fine.I can't pretend that Pierce is a good defender. Because every game I've seen of him, I come out unimpressed in his defense. Offensively he is excellent. But so is Wade. And most games I see of Wade I at least notice his defense (solid).
Honestly, Dwayne Wade is better than Paul, Mr. Wolf but you are making as good as an arguement as you can. Ender, if you are going to say that Dwayne is a better player, you should at least state good reasons why. Not that Paul Pierce is out of shape and lazy because after this past season, you cant say that.Dwayne Wade is a better player becauseA. He gets to the basket at will and he either scores, or draws the foul and shoots a great free throw percentage. Paul does the same thing but Dwayne is just better at it. He is the best at penetrating in the league(close to Tony Parker), and he can finish better than Paul due to being more athleticB. He is quicker which allows him to play better defense. Sure, Paul could lose some weight to gain quickness but by doing so, he would lose an edge that he has over alot of players in the low post. So, Dwayne gets the edge on defense as well.C. Hes clutch as they come...(maybe the best besides Carmelo). He always seems to raise his level of play in the last quarter, or last minutes of play. Not to say that Paul doesnt because he is one of the more clutch players in the league, but once again, Dwayne is just a little bit better.So basically, Dwayne Wade is just a very little bit better in every category than paul pierce besides the long ball. end of discussion
I've stated all that ballerman in previous posts and other stuff. But it comes down to weaknesses of players. Mr. Wolf's biggest arguments are that Pierce is a good leader and a better defensive player. I'm arguing those two points. Because I don't think he is either. As for Shaq. When you are 7'+, 320, and play center what is fat? Pierce is a SG. But it is more then just weight. Does he make his teammates better? That is questionable. Is he vocal in a positive way? Not for the most part of his career. As I said all the stats either favor Wade or they are even except 3pt % and he gets 1 more board per game.
I don't understand where you're getting this Pierce is fat crap. The guy has played about 40 minutes a game almost his entire career. The Celtics have been a bad franchise over the last 10 years. That is the only reason Paul Pierce hasn't had more success. Pat Riley built a winner when he drafted Wade. It was an enviorment where success could be achieved immediately. In contrast Pierce was drafted into the chaotic Rick Pitino regime. Wade had Walker, Shaq, White Chocolate, and Zo to help him win a championship. Pierce has only had Walker in his attempts. Hell if they had Jason Williams in 01-02 they probably could've reached the finals. Paul is quiet by nature and not the best leader, but he improved that drastically last year. He's also a solid defender. I said Wade was better because of his ability to take over games, which is something Pierce lacks. #34 is however the more well rounded player. So it depends on what you prefer; spurts of dominance, or a more well rounded game.Ballerman, Paul is just as good at getting to the basket as anyone in the NBA. Wade may be faster, but he's not as strong. One relies on speed and the other strength, but the results are the same.He's also as clutch as they come. Remember, he doesn't have great players to distract the defense at the end of games. Everyone knows who's getting the ball, but he still gets the job done most of the time. Pierce can also hit from outside, which gives his game an added demention that Wade doesn't have.If the Celtics were a better organization Paul Pierce would be as big a superstar as Wade.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ender @ Jul 17 2006, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I've stated all that ballerman in previous posts and other stuff. But it comes down to weaknesses of players. Mr. Wolf's biggest arguments are that Pierce is a good leader and a better defensive player. I'm arguing those two points. Because I don't think he is either. As for Shaq. When you are 7'+, 320, and play center what is fat? Pierce is a SG. But it is more then just weight. Does he make his teammates better? That is questionable. Is he vocal in a positive way? Not for the most part of his career. As I said all the stats either favor Wade or they are even except 3pt % and he gets 1 more board per game.</div>Dwyane Wade isnt even the leader on his team so i dont understand how you are comparing his leadership to Paul Pierce's. Dwyane Wade is 24 or 25 and he has been in the league for 3 years and you are calling him more of a leader than Paul Pierce. If you knew what you were talking about, you would know that ALL of Paul's teammates call him a leader and they look up to him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Jul 17 2006, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dwyane Wade isnt even the leader on his team</div>Is that so? I think it was pretty clear who was the leader in the playoffs and who was the leader every game that Shaq missed during the season. Wade and Parker are in the same situation, two bigmen who are past there prime while the guards lead the team. Both are leaders of there respective teams and Pop has even said that Parker is the leader himself while Duncan is the heart and soul of the team. Paul has been leading the team longer but that doesn't mean Wade isn't a better leader.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Jul 17 2006, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Is that so? I think it was pretty clear who was the leader in the playoffs and who was the leader every game that Shaq missed during the season. Wade and Parker are in the same situation, two bigmen who are past there prime while the guards lead the team. Both are leaders of there respective teams and Pop has even said that Parker is the leader himself while Duncan is the heart and soul of the team. Paul has been leading the team longer but that doesn't mean Wade isn't a better leader.</div>Just because Dwyane Wade played better in the playoffs doesnt mean that he is the leader of his team. Shaq is like Dwyanes older brother or even a father figure. Shaq has accepted that Dwayne is the best player on the team so he has taken the backseat so the team can move on. Do you not think that is being a leader. Shaq could demand the ball and get post feeds every possession but he doesnt do it because its not good for the team. And you know that if he demaned the ball, they would give it to him. What makes Dwayne Wade a leader in the first place?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Jul 17 2006, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Just because Dwyane Wade played better in the playoffs doesnt mean that he is the leader of his team. Shaq is like Dwyanes older brother or even a father figure. Shaq has accepted that Dwayne is the best player on the team so he has taken the backseat so the team can move on. Do you not think that is being a leader. Shaq could demand the ball and get post feeds every possession but he doesnt do it because its not good for the team. And you know that if he demaned the ball, they would give it to him. What makes Dwayne Wade a leader in the first place?</div>Shaq CAN demand it but he doesn't and thats the difference. What makes Wade the leader? Do you really think a old Shaq can do anything near to what Wade can? I think besides possibly the Chicago series Wade was the leader throughout the ENTIRE playoffs and that was only because of Chicago's weak inside presence. Wade is just about to hit his prime while Shaq is far from it, thats what makes Wade the leader there. He is the most vocal on the team, he is the playmaker of the team and steps up the most when the team needs him. Look what happened to Shaq in the finals, they gave him the ball plenty and what did he do when they gave him it? Nothing he passed right back to Wade who would attack the lane, Shaq isn't anywhere near the player he was in LA/Magic who can take over any game. Even a simple hack-a-Shaq can stop him now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Living_Legend33 @ Jul 17 2006, 08:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Celtics have been a bad franchise over the last 10 years. That is the only reason Paul Pierce hasn't had more success. Pat Riley built a winner when he drafted Wade. It was an enviorment where success could be achieved immediately. In contrast Pierce was drafted into the chaotic Rick Pitino regime. Wade had Walker, Shaq, White Chocolate, and Zo to help him win a championship. Pierce has only had Walker in his attempts. Hell if they had Jason Williams in 01-02 they probably could've reached the finals.</div>Who did they have in 03-04? Odom, Butler, Alston, and Eddie Jones. Not much of winners, and many of the players underachievers. Wade, in his rookie season, took over in the playoffs. Pierce still hasn't shown me anything like that in playoffs when he has gotten the chance.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I said Wade was better because of his ability to take over games, which is something Pierce lacks. #34 is however the more well rounded player. So it depends on what you prefer; spurts of dominance, or a more well rounded game.</div>Wade is more well rounded. Better scorer (higher PPG and FG %), better playmaker, better leader, equal defender. pierce is better rebounder, and it really does end there.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Ballerman, Paul is just as good at getting to the basket as anyone in the NBA. Wade may be faster, but he's not as strong. One relies on speed and the other strength, but the results are the same.</div>You do know Wade is the strongest guard in the league, right? He relies on speed to get there, but he get shis point by and 1's and bouncing off big men and somehow getting it in. No one in league outside of LeBron can get into middle and do that to a defense.ballerman- Wade is the leader of the Heat, bar none. Shaq is the X-factor that gives everyone hope, wade is the one who gets the job done. He is vocal on court, gets everyone involved, knows when to attack and when to pass, and is leading the team when either A) Shaq is out or B ) Shaq is hurt or not playing well.
Its not the media force feeding fans of who is a superstar and who isnt. It was Pierces own GM, Ainge, who called him a all-star and not a superstar.The only thing that Pierece appears to be better at is the range of his shot. Everything else, Wade appears to be better. That includes, rebounding, defense, playmaking, scoring, mid-range game, inside game, ect.(Notice: There really isnt a way to measure leadership skills)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heatfan32 @ Jul 17 2006, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Shaq CAN demand it but he doesn't and thats the difference. What makes Wade the leader? Do you really think a old Shaq can do anything near to what Wade can? I think besides possibly the Chicago series Wade was the leader throughout the ENTIRE playoffs and that was only because of Chicago's weak inside presence. Wade is just about to hit his prime while Shaq is far from it, thats what makes Wade the leader there. He is the most vocal on the team, he is the playmaker of the team and steps up the most when the team needs him. Look what happened to Shaq in the finals, they gave him the ball plenty and what did he do when they gave him it? Nothing he passed right back to Wade who would attack the lane, Shaq isn't anywhere near the player he was in LA/Magic who can take over any game. Even a simple hack-a-Shaq can stop him now.</div>dude, im not saying that shaq is better than Dwyane but that doesnt make him the leader of the team. And how do you know that Dwyane is more vocal? Are you in the huddles? And of course Wade is the playmaker BECAUSE HE HAS THE BALL BECAUSE HE IS A GUARD. Shaq is a smart guy, dont you think he knows that Dwyane can do whatever he wants with the ball? So dont you think its a smart thing that he passes the ball back out? I just dont see how this has to do ANYTHING with him being a leader.You obviously dont play basketball, but if you did, the best player on the team is not always the leader.
