Once the trade deadline approaches, expiring deals like Lin and Faried no longer necessarily have negative trade value.
The way I look at it, we are screwed the next two years anyway. Adding a 2nd rounder and expiring contract is better than doing nothing.
No I was responding to you bringing up the Vonleh TPE when @hoopsjock mentioned that we have nothing more to work with. You really think we will use the Vonleh TPE?
I realize that, but you have to also realize, given the Blazers tax situation, we would be desperate to move them, which diminishes their trade value. Everyone in the league knowing that moving a guy like Faried would save the Blazers ~$30 million wouldn't exactly have the Blazers negotiating from a position of strength. Chances are we'd end up just like DEN, paying someone a 1st round pick to take that albatross contract off our books. I'm all for accumulating assets. Giving away 1st round picks to move bad contracts is not how it's done. If it was possible to get something of value for Faried at the deadline, why didn't DEN just keep him and hold onto their 1st round pick? BNM
Can't speak for Denver. Don't know their owner's financial situation. If the Blazers were trading Faried at the deadline, it wouldn't be attaching assets to him to reduce the payroll, and it wouldn't be with him as the primary asset sought by the other team; it only be with him as ballast to match salary for a player that could actually improve the team. Essentially, as @hoopsjock said, extending the life of the TPE to a potentially usable timeframe, though with the underlying risk of possibly not being able to find a deal and having to pay the exorbitant tax bill. Basically, I see it as Neil/Paul being unwilling to assume that risk for the chance of being able to improve the team, which to me feels like a commentary on Neil.
And, again, I'm back to there are cheaper ways to accomplish that. GSW bought the 38th pick in the 2017 draft (Jordan Bell) for $3.5 million cash. If we want a pick next summer, or the summer after that, why can't we do the same? It's a lot cheaper than using the TPE to take back a bad contract. Didn't RLEC teach us anything. How many times to we need to have the biggest expiring contract, or the biggest TPE, before people start to understand how overrated those "assets" are. And you can't just blame Olshey for that. He has nothing to do with RLEC. It's just a fact of life that fans put way more value on those things than opposing GMs do. BNM
Probably trying to avoid another RLEC situation - only worse. RLEC didn't have $30 million in consequences if he wasn't traded. Letting RLEC expire cost the team nothing. So, it came down to, we can either just let the TPE expire, or in a few months find ourselves in desperate need to move the $13 million contact of yet another overpaid player. BNM
I have no idea, but apparently, TPEs are HUGE positive assets. Surely, it's worth something. We currently have 5 threads on the front page about the Crabbe TPE. all bemoaning how we failed to use such a valuable asset. What I actually said was, "Other than the Vonleh TPE, I think all of those assets are more valuable than anything we could have landed with the Crabbe TPE." I guess you missed that bolded part. BNM
Or, complaining about doing nothing. That always works. If only. If that was all it took, the Blazers would have the greatest super team in the history of the league. 82-0 baby!!! BNM
I think the blazers should just liquidate. I mean the warriors aren’t going away anytime soon, so what’s the point?
You are completely ignoring that Denver couldn't clear Faried if they waited. Sacramento is the only team in the entire league that could clear his contract and who knows if they could if Denver waited. They wanted to clear tax, it's that simple. They couldn't move Faried prior because he wasn't an expiring nor did they want salary in return. In the past Allen wouldn't have hesitated to pay money to better our situation. If he doesn't want to pay then don't let your GM keep saying how aggressive you are because it's not the case anymore. You are leaping to the conclusion that they wouldn't risk just paying the money.
We're not landing a superstar...they've all already landed. What we have is youth and guys who can make a leap given some burn.... Big Ed Bazz Pat C Curry Stauskas Baldwin Trent Simons new and improved Layman and Biggie......and Meyers hopefully......don't see that we've really lost that much from last year but we've gained shooting and a guy who can throw an alley oop for a change..couple of rooks who can defend and pass...Layman will be better than folks think as well.....if not...come Feb we can roll the dice again...I think we also added speed..guys who can push the tempo off the bench.
We didn’t lose much, nor did we improve much either. Life in the middle. For us to have a chance, Zach is gonna have to develop into an all star caliber player. And fast.
In reality, I'm resigned to this course. Your disagreement has been noted, but I think the complaints that the fans have been repeatedly been mislead isn't without merit. It is true that Olshey did not pinky swear; but honest assessments from management--we need playoff tested blah blah blah, for example; or anything about the TPE--are met with a collective sigh: "Oh good. He gets it." Then nothing. I think fans have earned the right to complain.
Then: So, what I'm getting from the nattering nabobs is "Neil is such a big liar, make him stop". Or, more diplomatically, "the fans have been repeatedly been mislead". So, if that's true, stop believing him. Fool you once... I get the feeling most here, after looking at what was realistically available, came to the conclusion we weren't going to use the Crabbe TPE, but want to complain about it anyway. The complaint has morphed from we didn't get anything, to Neil lied to us. Whatever. Paul Allen has proven time and time again, he will spend what it takes to win. He does not have a history of being a penny-pinching cheapskate. I honestly believe if there would have been a deal on the table that makes the team better, it would have happened, regardless of cost. To me, the fact that nothing happened means nothing worthwhile was available. People seem upset that Neil lied to us when all he said was the Crabbe TPE was an asset that would be in play when exploring possible deals. Maybe Neil should just completely refuse to talk to the media. I get the feeling some posters here would have rather seen him make a bad deal, than no deal at all. At least a bad deal would have proved he was trying. I don't need that proof. None of us know who Neil talked to and what was offered. I'm sure Paul Allen does, and while Paul may not be the penultimate judge of basketball talent, I don't question his dedication to winning. BNM
In a much less deep draft the Blazers gave up two future 2nds AND cash for one 2nd rounder. That is a massive overpay in my eyes and we now have no future picks from other teams. It's not about buying a pick at the draft, it's about having draft capital to include in trades to make deals happen. I've been one of the biggest Olshey apologists on this board. I know all the good he has done but the bottom line is this team needed to improve this summer and they just let one of the few advantages they had over any other team (besides Sacramento) go away. Now we are stuck hoping some team is stupid enough to take Turner and Leonard for someone really good. That's not a good way to build a team or improve it. If someone like Middleton is really available, you don't think it would be beneficial to be able to take one of their three bad contracts to make that happen? Other teams can't offer that service so it gives us an advantage. At the very least we could have offered them an expiring for a guy who has two years left but now it's hard to even do that.
A). yes Please make Neil stop talking. B.). He was the one who said that PA was an aggressive owner with the Exception so even it turned out to be a “bad deal” maybe a little follow through and do something with the asset would’ve been good... C) Neil’s fault for the faulty cap situation were in. Not mine, not yours his, so when Blazers fans are upset that we don’t have a lot of assets to get better with, well we’re going to Blame NO for that. D). Every single trade rumor for a piece that could put the Blazers closer to being a true threat is followed by but the Blazers wouldn’t include CJ - I like CJ and you don’t just trade him for nothing but come on he isn’t even close to a superstar... What Neil has said and what’s he’s done hasn’t been in line with each other. For instance we need more vet experience so we went and got a bunch of young “shooters” with no playoff experience all while letting go guys who did have playoff experience. I get it the win totals have gone up, and he gets at least some credit for that.
Correction, in the past Allen has been willing. After the summer of 2016 every single move has been financially driven. I'm fine with not re-signing Napier, Davis, or Connaughton but then trade some of them at the deadline (before the win streak) and get something for them. That could've resulted in a 2nd round pick we could've used to acquire Trent instead of giving up other assets to do so. This is why I'm mad about the TPE: 1) Retain Crabbe at an astronomical rate to not lose him for nothing. Good! 2) Crabbe doesn't show much growth but you find a trade that allows you to get under the tax last year. Fine! 3) Trade deadline comes and goes with guys like Mirotic getting traded that we could've used the TPE on to get better immediately because they obviously wanted to stay under the tax and avoid the repeater tax starting. Okay! 4) Olshey admits that strategy was wrong and that they need to stop protecting and bringing in assets and start focusing on guys that will help them in April. Awesome! 5) Olshey says that they are treating the TPE's like having cap space this summer since they are limited otherwise. Great! 6) Olshey drafts two 19 years olds. Alright! 7) Olshey signs two players with zero playoff experience. Hmmm? 8) TPE expires. How the fuck are we supposed to get better or proven guys if every avenue we had to do that this summer provided nothing of the sort? It's not just the TPE, or what Olshey says, or the moves they make. It's that it makes no fucking sense when you put it all together.
I disagree. I think we got a steal with Trent at 37. 2nd round picks are a total crap shoot. If you get one who makes your roster, you did well. If you get one who cracks your rotation, you got a steal. Not sure why the "AND cash" was in all caps. Big deal. We gave SAC $1.5 million. Cash considerations are use it or lose it and reset on July 1. Would you rather we'd passed on Trent Jr. to save Paul Allen $1.5 million? You seem to be playing both sides of the issue here. First, you're bitching about Paul and Neil cheaping out by not using the Crabbe TPE, now you're making a big deal about $1.5 million that doesn't count against the cap or luxury tax and would have expired unused anyway. It seems like you're all over the map. You're perfectly willing to pay a huge ass tax bill to land a future 2nd, yet also bitching about Trent Jr. being a massive overpay. The Crabbe TPE is gone. Poof. If we could have gotten something of value for it, we would have. We didn't. You can continue to play what ifs to your heart's content, but at the end of the day, you have no idea what was available, what Neil considered and what he turned down. Any scenario you contact after the fact is 100% pure speculation based on unfounded assumptions. BNM
