<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">We got into this arguement already so I'm not going into it again. But let it known that Martin didn't do any better job that Gasol did. They both lost the series</div>. Exactly, I didnt bring up Spurs matchups, you did. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think Gasol is a downgrade for the Nets either. I think he'd faired well enough in the tri-state area. He's very popular in Spain and the media there is following his steps. So I'd think he's used to it and he hasn't shown any signs of drop off. He's steadily getting better and better. It's just the rotation by Hubie Brown makes Pau play less minutes. Coming to the Nets, with Jason Kidd and he'll be a star.</div> The difference is NY media will not be friendly toward him if he is a let down at the max price. Spain's media is freindly toward him no matter what so its totally different situation. I dont know what Gasol minute situation was like in Memphis last season but the fact they were so deep probably had something to do with it. But being on a deep team also helped. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sprewell got a lot of cheer and he wasn't worth the contract he had. </div> People of NY related to him, he was anti-establishment, he was anti-allan Houston which made him more popular. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If you think Howard will fit the prestige of teh bigmen in the tri-state area you're mistaken. But forget that, with Gasol we're a top team in the east and maybe going to the finals. Atleast Eastern Conference Finals and as long as we're winning the media and fans will be happy.</div> No, but he surely doesnt cost max. and why are you making this a Gasol vs Howard debate on who better? I said Howard is more reasonable contract wise, which makes adding him more likely under Ratner's probable plan of not spending big amounts before we move to Brooklyn. I never once said Howard was a better player then Gasol. When exactly do you see Gasol taking us to the Finals around what time? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> That's how it always is. As long as you're winning, fans are happy. Kurt Thomas is a blue collar power foward but the fans are begging him to be traded. It's not the player, it's the wins the fans and media are worried about.</div> The fans are begging for him to get traded because their owners always have him on the trade block to get unrealistic players, so it makes Knick fans think they can get something they really cant get for Kurt Thomas, which takes away from them appreciating what Thomas brings to the table. Because they have dreams of getting something richer. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What? He does so much more than score. He scores 2 more points than Kmart, grabs 1 less rebound and blocks almost 1 more shot. And gets almost 1 more assist</div> Averaging little over 2 assist a game on a team with 8 or 9 legit scoring options isnt all that impressive in my opinion. K-Mart averaged that without those type of offense options. And Gasol has more blocks because he doesnt have to focus on playing on ball defense like Martin does, so he gets to weakside roam more than Martin. Gasol has the more polished scoring game no question. But they still were only seperated by about only 1 point per game last year. Btw, there you go making those caparisions again, 1st. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And what is the difference? Max money is max money, no? So you know Ratner now huh? Do you know his wife and kids too? Do you also know how big Martin's contract is for this season alone?</div> No I dont know Ratner but you have yet to explain to me how spending money before Ratner moves into his new building benefits him. Especially on a suspect max player like Gasol. Why do you keep bringing up Martin's contract has very little to do with this debate? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why wont it do that? Why not? Rockets moved to a new arena with Francis, Maurice Taylor, Cuttino Mobley, and Cato. They all together would equal three players making between 10 - 13 million.</div> Different Ownership equal diferent situations simple as that. Ratner looks at the Nets as a business plan nothing more nothing less. He not going to take a team that might be affected by the luxury tax into a new building. The guy plans on building a mall and other real estate property along with the Knew building, he is going to try & keep the basketball part as cheap as possible. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Gasol has a whole country behind him. And I think if the Grizzlies were on TV more, they'd see how good of a player he is. He's one of a kind and fans like players who play with flair. And that's all Gasol. His handling is as good as any big man I've seen outside of KG and Dirk these days. He's always top, somtimes second to Shaq in dunks. He's got great foot work, probably the best that'd be in the area since Patrick and Derrick Coleman. He's very fun to watch and he's energetic and he's always cheering his teammates on. I don't see a reason to say he's not gonna make it.</div> Yeah all thats nice but still doesnt make him a must see box office draw, which from a money standpoint would be the only reason for Ratner to shell out Max money for anybody not named RJ. People in the tri-state are not traveling to the boomdocks of the Airlines Arena to see Gasol play. He might put a few more people in the seats here & there but nothing close to being enuff that its benefical to Ratner. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Check the stats, Gasol already does that, plus much better defense</div> Please Read my other Gasol vs Howard part of the post. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kidd wants players that can run with him. Juwan Howard isn't the player he used to be. He wont be able to run with Kidd. Gasol on the other hand is young and will be able to.</div> Neither one is Martin, Mcdyess in 97' from a athletic, so thats pretty much meanless. Juwan Howard will surely be able to get his fair share of fastbreak points playing alongside kidd. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">RJ is a winner. He just wants to win. Juwan Howard, no matter how you look at it won't produce wins. With Gasol, atleast they have a future.</div> You act like Gasol is some proven winner, he played on one playoff team. and they won more because their depth rather than Gasol's leadership or ablity to add wins to a team. RJ, Howard, & kidd wont produce wins? please ! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Only 6 million? That's what, 1/6, 1/7th our cap space? That's pretty big if you ask me. I rather save that for a player that's not going to be 38 or however old when he finishes his contract.</div> How much will Gasol max contract take up? And how would Juwan Howard be 38 when his contracts up? He is 30 years old he has 4 years left, that puts him at 34 when his contract is up around. Same as kidd, when his contract is up. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why not? He was getting those numbers in the beginning of the year before he got hurt. He doesn't play those minutes cause he didn't full recover. Look at his first 9 games before he got hurt. Against the rockets, 35 minutes, 14 pts, 17 rebs, 1 blk. Two days later at the Magic, 22 pts, 9 rebs, 2 blocks in 45 minutes. later in the season against the Lakers 33 minutes, 10 pts, 16 rebs, 1 stl 2 blks. When he plays big minutes he contributes big. He just needs consistent minutes and Skiles wasn't giving it to him cause he was scared he'd get hurt cause he plays with too much intensity and bangs too much when he needs to recover. When I watch Tyson play, I see a guy who plays his heart out and is willing to risk getting hurt again to show others how good he is. It might not be a wise decision, but if he's fully recovered, like he and the bulls management says he is, he's gonna be a beast next season. Book it</div> Well let see him recover and show off that beast ablity you are talking about, then maybe he will seem a little more logical. But until then I will pass. And Ratner probably will too. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That's why Alonzo basically called him a wuss for sitting out with a sore ankle?</div> Which was a stupid comment by Zo, giving Martin's history of ankle problems since his days as a bearcat, its smart for him to sit out whenever it isnt feeling effective, one wrong move and it could be career ending. So lets get past that day where both side threw pointless shots at each other in a heated agruement. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Every player has an injury of some kind. And I don't see anyone complaining about their injuries.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you serious?</div> I'll have to get back to you because I cant see what I said here but Iam pretty sure what ever I said I meant. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Pistons became a lot better with signing McDyess, a more controlled and savy player than Memo Okur. A healthy McDyess (which is likely cause Brown will moniter his minutes) will boost the Pistons tremendously. And now the Pacers have Stephen Jackson, who'll be deadly because he provides outside shooting and he did well against the Nets in the Finals. He's gotten a lot better since then and I can see him hurting the Nets alot. He'll stretch the defense and allow more isolation for Jermaine O'Neal downlow. I'd rather take my chances with Gasol gaurding Jermaine than Howard.</div> McDyess this point is not a a difference maker in a series. 1st he has to prove he can stay heathly enuff to have even a serious role on that team. Yes Stephen Jackson was a great addition but the pacers gave up a bulk of their bench scoring to do it <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You know, it's real funny. Cause I said to you the last time we argued that Kenyon Martin getting a max contract would be like Juwan Howard and you laughed at me for making a comparison and that Juwan wasn't worth it. Now here you are defending him. It's funny how things changed</div>. I seriously dont even remember Juwan Howard's name being brought up at all. If you have recently seen that quote I would love to see exactly what I said because I remember us talking about Nene & Gasol and a few other young bigbodies. And of course thing change if the money isnt going to be spent to bring in a max forward. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't need a history of Juwan Howard, I've been through it, since his days at Michigan. The history doesn't matter. What does matter is what's going on with him now. He was never a great player to begin with and he isn't now. He's aging. He's gonna be on his contract till he's nearly 40 years old. He's not worth it. For all the talk you do about Kidd dropping off, why not apply it to Juwan</div> What are you talking about with this guy being 40 when his contract ends, I mean he gets older & older as read your post, he must has been born in a leap year. It does apply to Horward as well but he doesnt have any lingering injury problem's that I know about. Kidd knee has had problems since PHX days and he is coming off a surgery that Chris Webber, Allan Houston are both yet to fully recover from. Its going to take alot of him to comeback from this injury which is going to effect his productivity spand. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And yet he's never won anything. You really think Juwan Howard is that power forward? You need to get a reality check. Go watch some Juwan Howard tapes. I have some. I'd mail it to you if I could. His defense is atrocious. Only Glenn Robinson is worse. You talk about subpar defense with Gasol? Just watch Juwan Howard, he'd make Gasol look like Bill Russell</div> ah.. No I am pretty much in touch with the reality on what Howard brings to the table and never once said his dense was good at all you are putting words in my mouth to better your weak case on giving Gasol the max. Juwan Howard is not nor will he be the savior of the Nets. But he is a moderately priced bigman by todays standards who will allow a team led Kidd and Jefferson to be competive. He isnt a maxed price bigman leaving in your fantasy world of the Nets getting. Yes Howard defense is subpar but it isant bad enuff to make Gasol look anything like Bill Russell your fooling yourself. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You didn't mention them so I assumed you overlooked them. And Butler was injured for most of last season and was lost in the rotation when he came back only to find Lamar Odom to take his starting spot. He's still a solid player, atleast what I've seen in the playoffs. It was more obvious that Marc was playing for a contract. Boozer's been working hard ever since college. In Duke everyone said he worked hard and when he got into the league he worked even harder to prove the critics wrong. I don't think Boozer is gonna start being lazy now when all through his career he was a hard worker. True, last season's draft was one of a kind, but I still think this year's draft is solid. Emeka Okafor will be a solid big in my opinion. Luol Deng, great player out of Blair Academy up in North Jers. I've been watching him since highschool and I know he's gonna make it big. Ben Gordon, he looks solid as Baron Davis did out of college. Devin Harris. I think he has the makings of the next Steve Nash with a lot better defense cause of his wingspan. Andre Iguodala is slated to be the next Pippen. Jameer Nelson will be a solid player for years to come. Luke Jackson should play off Lebron will and could be the next Brent Barry. Duhon should be a solid back up in the league. He'd probably even start on other teams like Seattle, Houston, and Golden State. And then you got the highschoolers, but I won't get into them cause they're only potential right now. The other players are set to be immediate help. I don't think the talent is worse than it has been, it's just been more diverse</div> All this usless with the exception Jamieer Nelson and Chris Duhon are all lottery picks not really steals. And they are all still unproven because have played one game yet the league has been filled with should of, would of, could of beens. Iam sure a fair share of these players will be on that list as well in a couple seasons when their potienial card runs out.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Exactly, I didnt bring up Spurs matchups, you did.</div> I brought up the Grizzlies-Spurs match-up. You introduced the Nets-Spurs finals. Different scenario. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The difference is NY media will not be friendly toward him if he is a let down at the max price. </div> And he hasn't yet, so why are you so openly declaring that he isn't? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Spain's media is freindly toward him no matter what so its totally different situation. </div> You don't even know what Spain's media does, do you? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I dont know what Gasol minute situation was like in Memphis last season but the fact they were so deep probably had something to do with it. But being on a deep team also helped. </div> It doesn't help. It means that he has to fight for minutes with other good players. He has to fight with Lorenzen Wright, Stromile Swift for playing time because each of them are good, talented players. And if Hubie isn't liking what Pau is doing he could replace him and then Pau's on the bench, whereas in Jersey where Kenyon isn't playing well there really isn't an alternative player as good as he is. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">People of NY related to him, he was anti-establishment, he was anti-allan Houston which made him more popular. </div> What is this, the 70s? Anti-establishment? That implies he was against the Knicks management, which he wasn't until there was serious trade talks about Sprewell. And he wasn't anti-Allan Houston. Numerous times Srewell said they were friends and Houston confirmed that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No, but he surely doesnt cost max. and why are you making this a Gasol vs Howard debate on who better? </div> Because essentially it's who's better for the team. You think Howard will solve the problem in the frontcourt, I think waiting for a younger, better player will. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I never once said Howard was a better player then Gasol.</div> So essentially you don't like my idea because it interferes with what you know about Ratner, yet you think your plan will work. I seriously doubt that because I think if Ratner doesn't want contracts then he wouldn't take on Howards long term garunteed contract. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">When exactly do you see Gasol taking us to the Finals around what time? </div> I don't know. I can't see the future. But I can calculate probability and it's higher than Howard's chances. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The fans are begging for him to get traded because their owners always have him on the trade block to get unrealistic players, so it makes Knick fans think they can get something they really cant get for Kurt Thomas, which takes away from them appreciating what Thomas brings to the table. </div> That's poor logic. Management always had Sprewell as trade bait and I used to read whacked out articles about how managment tried to get Stackhouse and Kwame Brown for Spre and Othella Harrington. I also read reports about Sprewell for Vince Carter trades. However, fans bashed management for even wanting to trade Sprewell. Fans loved him and didn't want him to leave. There's no difference with Kurt Thomas, except the fact that Kurt isn't a high octane energy player like Sprewell, the real reason fans loved him, not that anti-establishment stuff. Thomas works hard but he doesn't show enough emotion. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Averaging little over 2 assist a game on a team with 8 or 9 legit scoring options isnt all that impressive in my opinion. K-Mart averaged that without those type of offense options. </div> Grizzlies offense runs in a fashion where Gasol gets the ball and isolates to score. That's his main objective. They rotate for shooters on the wings, but it's very limited when Gasol touches the ball. It's different with Martin who when he gets the ball players sort of cut within sight for Martin to pass to or they're in the fast break. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And Gasol has more blocks because he doesnt have to focus on playing on ball defense like Martin does, so he gets to weakside roam more than Martin. </div> What? Every player plays on the ball defense at one point or another and with all the bigmen in the west Gasol has to play against these players on a nightly basis where as Kenyon can take a night off when he's playing any other eastern team but Indiana. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Btw, there you go making those caparisions again, 1st. </div> My comparisons were in response to yours. I started with comparing Howard and Gasol, the player you proposed vs the player I proposed. Then you brought Kmart in for a reason yet explained, and I responded. Simple as that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No I dont know Ratner but you have yet to explain to me how spending money before Ratner moves into his new building benefits him. Especially on a suspect max player like Gasol. </div> I asked the opposite and you didn't explain to me how saving benefits him. With a guy like Ratner, who has visibly unlimited resources I think investing in the team can get him somewhere. However, he's smart, he only wants to spend money for people that are worth it. Gasol is worth max money, while Howard isn't worth the garunteed money he's getting and the length of it. If he's willing to pay RJ max, then throwing some money Gasol's way to keep the fans interested in the team would go a long way for the opening of a new arena. In fact, I think the NY media and fans thing apply just as much as to Gasol as much as it does to Ratner. If Ratner is messing up the team then the fans and media will slander his name. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why do you keep bringing up Martin's contract has very little to do with this debate?</div> You keep bringing up Martin vs. Gasol. Martin is making nearly 30 million dollars this season alone. Tell me that the Nets should match that offer. Any real business man would say that's foolish and stupid, unless Martin's gonna get them a championship. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ratner looks at the Nets as a business plan nothing more nothing less</div> There hasn't been one article of him saying that. You keep assuming it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He not going to take a team that might be affected by the luxury tax into a new building. </div> Team is affected by luxuary cause of the Deke buyout and Zo contract. Once Deke's buyout ends and Zo's contract is discounted from the cap then its a whole new situation. There's room to spend money to keep the fans from rioting. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The guy plans on building a mall and other real estate property along with the Knew building, he is going to try & keep the basketball part as cheap as possible. </div> More and more assumptions, you don't know much about real estate, do you? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah all thats nice but still doesnt make him a must see box office draw, which from a money standpoint would be the only reason for Ratner to shell out Max money for anybody not named RJ. </div> Perhaps not initally but after awhile when the fans start checking out the highlight reels they'll know how good he is. Isn't that how it worked with the first championship run? Everyone thought the Nets weren't gonna be that good and all of the sudden they started making some noise and viewing increased? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">People in the tri-state are not traveling to the boomdocks of the Airlines Arena to see Gasol play.</div> You just don't like Gasol, do you? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He might put a few more people in the seats here & there but nothing close to being enuff that its benefical to Ratner. </div> There you go using your Ratner cop out excuse. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Neither one is Martin, </div> whoa whoa whoa, weren't you the one who was bashing me for bringing up Martin before? Hey now, what are you doing here? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Juwan Howard will surely be able to get his fair share of fastbreak points playing alongside kidd. </div> Is this after the other team catches up with their transition defense or before the transition defense stops us? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You act like Gasol is some proven winner, he played on one playoff team.</div> And what has Howard won in his 10 year career? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">and they won more because their depth rather than Gasol's leadership or ablity to add wins to a team. </div> So you're saying without Gasol they wouldn't be that far off from where they were? I think a large part is Gasol. Ask Hubie brown or any other player on that team and they'll say that Gasol was a big, if not the biggest factor they won games. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">RJ, Howard, & kidd wont produce wins? please ! </div> I never said that. I said Howard won't add wins to the Nets. Gasol would add wins. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How much will Gasol max contract take up? </div> In production it would be worth it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And how would Juwan Howard be 38 when his contracts up? He is 30 years old he has 4 years left, that puts him at 34 when his contract is up around. Same as kidd, when his contract is up. </div> Miscalculation on my part. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well let see him recover and show off that beast ablity you are talking about, then maybe he will seem a little more logical. But until then I will pass. And Ratner probably will too. </div> There you go talking about your good buddy Ratner. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Which was a stupid comment by Zo, giving Martin's history of ankle problems since his days as a bearcat, its smart for him to sit out whenever it isnt feeling effective, one wrong move and it could be career ending. So lets get past that day where both side threw pointless shots at each other in a heated agruement. </div> Perhaps, but Zo comments were not far off. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'll have to get back to you because I cant see what I said here but Iam pretty sure what ever I said I meant. </div> You said the Nets with Howard would have a legit chance at beating Indiana and Detroit. Which I find far from true. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">McDyess this point is not a a difference maker in a series. </div> I don't think that's true. With teams that are close he could very well be a difference maker because he's a veteran and still productive player. When he's playing a lot less minutes and not being focused as a main option he'll more than likely stay uninjured. Look at what happened with Camby. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes Stephen Jackson was a great addition but the pacers gave up a bulk of their bench scoring to do it</div> Either Reggie or Stephen off the bench will produce enough points. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I seriously dont even remember Juwan Howard's name being brought up at all. If you have recently seen that quote I would love to see exactly what I said because I remember us talking about Nene & Gasol and a few other young bigbodies. </div> My fault on this one, I got into an arguement with InNETSweTrust over it. However, I think what he says is very pertinant: <div class="quote_poster">Quoting InNETSweTrust:</div><div class="quote_post">for the record, Antawn and Howard lacks the toughness </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What are you talking about with this guy being 40 when his contract ends, I mean he gets older & older as read your post, he must has been born in a leap year.</div> Miscalculation on my part and being born in a leap year would make him younger. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It does apply to Horward as well but he doesnt have any lingering injury problem's that I know about. Kidd knee has had problems since PHX days and he is coming off a surgery that Chris Webber, Allan Houston are both yet to fully recover from. Its going to take alot of him to comeback from this injury which is going to effect his productivity spand. </div> Can't really compare cause one is a great player and the other has been a let down throughout most of his career. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No I am pretty much in touch with the reality on what Howard brings to the table and never once said his dense was good at all you are putting words in my mouth to better your weak case on giving Gasol the max. </div> Then you'll be "in touch" with how Howard frustration of many fans if this happens. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Juwan Howard is not nor will he be the savior of the Nets. But he is a moderately priced bigman by todays standards who will allow a team led Kidd and Jefferson to be competive.</div> Then why get him and kill valuable cap space? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He isnt a maxed price bigman leaving in your fantasy world of the Nets getting</div> That doesn't make sense. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes Howard defense is subpar but it isant bad enuff to make Gasol look anything like Bill Russell your fooling yourself. </div> You said yourself you haven't watched many Grizzlies games. Then what is to say Gasol's defense isn't decent? What about Howard? Have you seen any of his games? His defense is just God aweful and I wouldn't pay him 6 million just to score which is all he can do. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">All this usless with the exception Jamieer Nelson and Chris Duhon are all lottery picks not really steals. </div> Duhon isn't a lottery pick. His scoring is erratic and he's inconsistent. Nelson could've been a lottery pick but unfortunately he's too short. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And they are all still unproven because have played one game yet </div> Yeah cause the season hasn't started yet... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Iam sure a fair share of these players will be on that list as well in a couple seasons when their potienial card runs out. </div> Unsurprisingly, I have no idea what you said again.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I brought up the Grizzlies-Spurs match-up. You introduced the Nets-Spurs finals. Different scenario</div> Common you said that K-Mart backs down from tuff frontlines.And then in the very next sentence you said what Gasol did against the Spurs. The Spurs are the only only team they have in common of facing for a 7 game series, which pretty much tells me you where trying to say that Martin backed down in a 7 game series vs Spurs (which you have said several times in the past) and Gasol didnt. In your very 1st or 2nd post. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You don't even know what Spain's media does, do you?</div> Of course not but common sense and knowing New York media, tells me that Gasol being their native son & main NBA representative would get treated pretty well by them 24/7, while New York Media will kill him at the 1st sign of something going wrong. I dont think I need to know Spain media to figure that out. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It doesn't help. It means that he has to fight for minutes with other good players. He has to fight with Lorenzen Wright, Stromile Swift for playing time because each of them are good, talented players. And if Hubie isn't liking what Pau is doing he could replace him and then Pau's on the bench, whereas in Jersey where Kenyon isn't playing well there really isn't an alternative player as good as he is.</div> He played about 32 minutes a game compared to Martin playing 34 minutes, not much difference. And it does help, you dont have to battle on the boards alone, he doesnt have to play much on ball defense on the best Power forward and post players, frontlines cant only focus on him like the did Martin etc. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What is this, the 70s? Anti-establishment? That implies he was against the Knicks management, which he wasn't until there was serious trade talks about Sprewell. And he wasn't anti-Allan Houston. Numerous times Srewell said they were friends and Houston confirmed that.</div> Yes he did, he went against Knicks management his enter time hear basically from the contract dispute, the broken hand inncident etc. He is Anti-Allan Houston in the fact that Houston is consider to be clean cut, never goes against the grain. Sprewell is the total & was the total opposite he had the Allen Iverson like locks flowing, he always went against the grain and he seem to have human flaws. And thats why the people embrassed him so much. And that just the start of their differences <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Because essentially it's who's better for the team. You think Howard will solve the problem in the frontcourt, I think waiting for a younger, better player will.</div> Ok thats understandable that isnt going to come to the Nets thru FA with a max player while they are still located in NJ, I have stated why a million times. It going to have to come thru the draft maybe, but until then Howard keeps the Nets competive until then imo. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">essentially you don't like my idea because it interferes with what you know about Ratner, yet you think your plan will work. I seriously doubt that because I think if Ratner doesn't want contracts then he wouldn't take on Howards long term garunteed contract.</div> Th Nets will be moving to New York in late 2008-09 from what I have heard(and it might even be later then that now because Ratner hasnt even gone infront of the NY review board and he going to have a hell of a time getting it approved, which is going to make it take longer) , his contract ends at that same time which means he will more than likely not being coming with the Nets to the new building, therefore affecting none of Ratners New York plans for the team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know. I can't see the future. But I can calculate probability and it's higher than Howard's chances. That's poor logic. Management always had Sprewell as trade bait and I used to read whacked out articles about how managment tried to get Stackhouse and Kwame Brown for Spre and Othella Harrington. I also read reports about Sprewell for Vince Carter trades. However, fans bashed management for even wanting to trade Sprewell. Fans loved him and didn't want him to leave</div> Sprewell could never go bad in the eyes of New York fans, btw Stackhouse on the Wizards was not an upgrade or a fantasy deal that New York would go crazy about anyway. Kurt Thomas has been on the Market for everybody you can think of. Kurt thomas was on the trade block for Rasheed Wallace before he went to the Pistons. A couple of years ago going to Dallas for Van Exel when Van Exel was hot, and everyone in NY was screaming for a top pg etc. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There's no difference with Kurt Thomas, except the fact that Kurt isn't a high octane energy player like Sprewell, the real reason fans loved him, not that anti-establishment stuff. Thomas works hard but he doesn't show enough emotion.</div> Yes the Anti-Establisment stuff had a large part to do why people where drawn to Sprewell and the energy & emotion of course is a apart of that, it was all about he had characteristics New Yorkers could relate too. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Grizzlies offense runs in a fashion where Gasol gets the ball and isolates to score. That's his main objective. They rotate for shooters on the wings, but it's very limited when Gasol touches the ball. It's different with Martin who when he gets the ball players sort of cut within sight for Martin to pass to or they're in the fast break</div> That still doesnt make up for the fact that Gasol had better shooters around him, & better options to make high low pass in the post to yet, he still managed not to average more assist then Martin. If he was the great passer like you have been claiming in the debates over the last month, he clearly would have, I you said he gets Isoliated in the post alot, Isolations also create alot of assist opportunites as well as scoring opportunites. And as far as the Nets motion offense with Cutters etc, JC is the main high post passer in those situations, so he benefits from that alot more than Martin does. And yes K-Mart gets a decent amount of assist on the fastbreak because when Kidd gives him the pass as the trailer, he can make either the basket or the play for someone else by dumping of the pass to someone else. But that should be a testament to his ablities to make plays. Because you give some bigmen the ball as a trailer on the break and they can only do one thing with it, make the basket. And if that isnt available they cant make the another play for someone else, Amare imo has been that type of player so far in his career. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What? Every player plays on the ball defense at one point or another and with all the bigmen in the west Gasol has to play against these players on a nightly basis where as Kenyon can take a night off when he's playing any other eastern team but Indiana.</div> He plays against them but he doesnt have to guard them much because he has players & bigmen around him that take that pressure off. If he isnt guarding TD, then he is guarding Rasho. Thats a major drop off, dont you think? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">My comparisons were in response to yours. I started with comparing Howard and Gasol, the player you proposed vs the player I proposed. Then you brought Kmart in for a reason yet explained, and I responded. Simple as that.</div> No once again you should read your 1st or 2nd post to see who brought Martin's name into the conversation, with all the comparisons <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I asked the opposite and you didn't explain to me how saving benefits him. With a guy like Ratner, who has visibly unlimited resources I think investing in the team can get him somewhere. However, he's smart, he only wants to spend money for people that are worth it. Gasol is worth max money, while Howard isn't worth the garunteed money he's getting and the length of it. If he's willing to pay RJ max, then throwing some money Gasol's way to keep the fans interested in the team would go a long way for the opening of a new arena. In fact, I think the NY media and fans thing apply just as much as to Gasol as much as it does to Ratner. If Ratner is messing up the team then the fans and media will slander his name</div> I have explianed a million times? if you go into a new building with a team that will be affected by the luxury tax, then you go into a new building with extra expenses, which Ratner is not going to do for Rau Gasol, dont see it happening. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You keep bringing up Martin vs. Gasol. Martin is making nearly 30 million dollars this season alone. Tell me that the Nets should match that offer. Any real business man would say that's foolish and stupid, unless Martin's gonna get them a championship.</div> Where did I say the Nets should match in this conversation. I said it in the past of debates before Denver came with their front loaded offer. And when the shock 1st hit me that all we got was draft picks, But I never once even discussed K-Mart being matched or not being a Net next. And once again you are the one talking about Gasol does this better than Martin & that better than Martin <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There hasn't been one article of him saying that. You keep assuming it.</div> Hmmm.... Iam going under the assuption that the guys main goal is making & saving money, thats it thats all. And you say you listen to Mike & the Mad dog, well based on the calls they get on this guy from people discussing the Martin situation, the move to Brooklyn etc a large part of the tri-state area is under the same assumption as me. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Team is affected by luxuary cause of the Deke buyout and Zo contract. Once Deke's buyout ends and Zo's contract is discounted from the cap then its a whole new situation. There's room to spend money to keep the fans from rioting</div> Yes but the Nets will aslo have alot of other roster spots to fill then just PF. If you give Gasol max, and Jefferson max, with kidd getting max please explaint to me how you do this without getting affected by the luxury tax. Because you cant sign a bunch of one year stiffs, with three max players you better put parts around them that will garuntee them being competive. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">More and more assumptions, you don't know much about real estate, do you?</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Perhaps not initally but after awhile when the fans start checking out the highlight reels they'll know how good he is. Isn't that how it worked with the first championship run? Everyone thought the Nets weren't gonna be that good and all of the sudden they started making some noise and viewing increased</div> Ah.. where have you been people havent been exactly running the arena to see us during our 2 back to back finals run. And thats Marin and all his fastbreak antics. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You just don't like Gasol, do you?</div> Could careless about Gasol to honest, But the chances of him getting max from the Nets at this time is unrealistic. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There you go using your Ratner cop out excuse.</div> excuse? hmm.. more like reality, you have fantasies of Ratner paying max to 2 players the same year, if RJ elects not to take the extension this year. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">whoa whoa whoa, weren't you the one who was bashing me for bringing up Martin before? Hey now, what are you doing here? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Is this after the other team catches up with their transition defense or before the transition defense stops us</div>? You act like Gasol is some super transition player, niether one is going to jump out the building to catch a kidd pass or run neck to neck with kidd like Martin did. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And what has Howard won in his 10 year career</div> He has won just as much as Gasol. So you're saying without Gasol they wouldn't be that far off from where they were? I think a large part is Gasol. Ask Hubie brown or any other player on that team and they'll say that Gasol was a big, if not the biggest factor they won games</div> They won regular season games because of the depth simple as that. Not because of Gasol being some great leader like you make him out to be. I have seen some Grizzlies fans on this very board say that James Posey was their team MVP this year not Gasol. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I never said that. I said Howard won't add wins to the Nets. Gasol would add wins.</div> Howard is an upgrade from our current frontline players of Kyle Davis, Jason Collins, Nenad Kristic, that in itself puts more wins on the table for the upcoming seasons <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> In production it would be worth it. Miscalculation on my part. There you go talking about your good buddy Ratner. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?</div> You should tell me your the one getting all crazy with your fantasy of bring another max player to go along with Kidd's outragous contract and Jefferson's expected contract. If the Nets were already in the brooklyn building I could see where you are coming from but right now the Nets will be living off cost effective players & draft picks. And stay competive with that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Perhaps, but Zo comments were not far off</div> Yes they were, thats stupid to play on an injured ankle if you have a past ankle problems come on. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You said the Nets with Howard would have a legit chance at beating Indiana and Detroit. Which I find far from true.</div> I said with a healthy Kidd, RJ & Howard, they have a legit shot, meaning Kidd & RJ are still the main difference makers. And Howard is their to compete against O'neal etc and keep the power forward postion competive. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Either Reggie or Stephen off the bench will produce enough points.</div> Stephen Jackson needs to be a starter to truely effective imo, because he is a high volume type player. Meaning needs alot of shots, alot of minutes etc, part of the reason he left Spurs is becuase he didnt want to risk Manu starting over him. And Reggie can still hit big shots but he wont be a Al Harrington consistent type scoring option off the bench <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Can't really compare cause one is a great player and the other has been a let down throughout most of his career</div>. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Then you'll be "in touch" with how Howard frustration of many fans if this happens.</div> Yes but Gasol at 80 million will frustrate Nets fans much more if he is a flop. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Then why get him and kill valuable cap space</div> No he affects cap space, Gasol would kill cap space. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That doesn't make sense</div>. Juwan Howard doesnt cost anything close to what Gasol will cost which makes him more of a reality. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You said yourself you haven't watched many Grizzlies games. Then what is to say Gasol's defense isn't decent? What about Howard? Have you seen any of his games? His defense is just God aweful and I wouldn't pay him 6 million just to score which is all he can do.</div> Neither one is that great denfesively on ball, I so why do you keep focusing on just Howard defense being bad, his defense wont be costing a 80+ million dollars is my whole point, What so hard to understand <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Duhon isn't a lottery pick. His scoring is erratic and he's inconsistent. Nelson could've been a lottery pick but unfortunately he's too short. Yeah cause the season hasn't started yet...</div> Exactly Unsurprisingly, I have no idea what you said again.[/QUOTE] What so hard to understand players get a certain amount of time where they stay in the league or a considered future superstars based on potenial. Once that ends alot fall by the waste side. Iam pretty sure that their will be some from the 2003 & 2004 class to fall waste side soon. Lets just end this debat by both agreeing to wait to hell freezes over until Gasol being a Net in the near future, because it aint going to happen next offseason.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Common you said that K-Mart backs down from tuff frontlines.And then in the very next sentence you said what Gasol did against the Spurs. The Spurs are the only only team they have in common of facing for a 7 game series, which pretty much tells me you where trying to say that Martin backed down in a 7 game series vs Spurs (which you have said several times in the past) and Gasol didnt. In your very 1st or 2nd post. </div> Well, not surprisingly, you assumed wrong. Kmart went up against the Pistons and faded, not just the Spurs. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Of course not but common sense and knowing New York media, tells me that Gasol being their native son & main NBA representative would get treated pretty well by them 24/7, while New York Media will kill him at the 1st sign of something going wrong.</div> If you don't know anything about Spanish media, then don't say anything. There are plenty articles that bang on Pau's game, and some that praise it. Right now he's with the Spanish National team and he's been playing hard. It's the same Spanish team that gave Nenad Kristic a cut on his face. They don't back down. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I dont think I need to know Spain media to figure that out. </div> You don't need to know a lot of things, huh? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> He played about 32 minutes a game compared to Martin playing 34 minutes, not much difference. And it does help, you dont have to battle on the boards alone, he doesnt have to play much on ball defense on the best Power forward and post players, frontlines cant only focus on him like the did Martin etc. </div> You can only have 5 players on the court so it's not like Pau was an extra 6th man on court. He has to play defense like everyone else. The Pistons have a deep front court, does that mean less defense responsibility for Ben Wallace and Sheed? Hell no. It's less for players like the gaurds who gamble for steals. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Yes he did, he went against Knicks management his enter time hear basically from the contract dispute, the broken hand inncident etc.</div> The was the latter of his Knicks career, which I wasn't addressing. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> He is Anti-Allan Houston in the fact that Houston is consider to be clean cut, never goes against the grain. Sprewell is the total & was the total opposite he had the Allen Iverson like locks flowing, he always went against the grain and he seem to have human flaws. And thats why the people embrassed him so much. And that just the start of their differences</div> Ok, obviously you have a misunderstanding in the prefix "anti". What you're talking about is "opposite". Sprewell was the opposite of Houston is what you're getting at. When you say anti, it means that he's against something, and in this case Houston. So when you said Anti-Allan Houston I used the defintion of anti and thought you mean that Sprewell didn't like Houston. Here's the definition, courtesy of dictionary.com: anti Audio pronunciation of anti ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nt, -t) n. pl. antis A person who is opposed to something, such as a group, policy, proposal, or practice. adj. Opposed: Douglas MacArthur had a coterie of worshipers, balanced off by an equal number... who were vehemently anti (Joseph C. Harsch). prep. Opposed to; against. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Ok thats understandable that isnt going to come to the Nets thru FA with a max player while they are still located in NJ, I have stated why a million times. </div> No you haven't. You kept asking me the oppsoite question. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Sprewell could never go bad in the eyes of New York fans, btw Stackhouse on the Wizards was not an upgrade or a fantasy deal that New York would go crazy about anyway. Kurt Thomas has been on the Market for everybody you can think of. Kurt thomas was on the trade block for Rasheed Wallace before he went to the Pistons. A couple of years ago going to Dallas for Van Exel when Van Exel was hot, and everyone in NY was screaming for a top pg etc. </div> Stackhouse and Kwame Brown and Jarred Jefferies for Sprewell and Othella Harrington is one hell of a deal for New York, if you ask me. Sprewell for Vince Carter is also one hell of a deal. In the end NY just didn't want to get rid of their favorite player. It's simple. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Yes the Anti-Establisment stuff had a large part to do why people where drawn to Sprewell and the energy & emotion of course is a apart of that, it was all about he had characteristics New Yorkers could relate too. </div> I think you just have a misunderstanding of what anti-establishment means. It would imply that he's against everything that has power and authority. It entails so much more than contract issues and being traded. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> That still doesnt make up for the fact that Gasol had better shooters around him, & better options to make high low pass in the post to yet, he still managed not to average more assist then Martin. If he was the great passer like you have been claiming in the debates over the last month, he clearly would have, I you said he gets Isoliated in the post alot, Isolations also create alot of assist opportunites as well as scoring opportunites. </div> I never called him a great passer, just a better passer than Martin. He's a good passer. He has decent court vision for a bigman and has been known to pass out of the double team. Kmart hasn't really done that much. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> And as far as the Nets motion offense with Cutters etc, JC is the main high post passer in those situations, so he benefits from that alot more than Martin does.</div> Cause Collins is a smarter player and a better passer than Martin is. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> He plays against them but he doesnt have to guard them much because he has players & bigmen around him that take that pressure off. If he isnt guarding TD, then he is guarding Rasho. Thats a major drop off, dont you think? </div> Yeah so he has help. This is one time I brought Martin into this. Martin had help. Aaron Williams. Jason Collins. Deke. That's a pretty solid defensive help line up for Martin. From my recollection, Deke did the best job on Duncan. Defensively that line up is solid. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> No once again you should read your 1st or 2nd post to see who brought Martin's name into the conversation, with all the comparisons</div> This is so adolescent. And I did read the posts and you brought his name in first. Read your 2nd post #3. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I have explianed a million times? if you go into a new building with a team that will be affected by the luxury tax, then you go into a new building with extra expenses, which Ratner is not going to do for Rau Gasol, dont see it happening. </div> The Luxuary tax entails that we have a payroll greater than 56 million. So if we had Jefferson making 10 mil a year, Pau making 12, and Jason making 14, added with Jason Collins, who should make 3, that's 39 million all together. That still leaves 6 mil of cap space and another 11 million before we pay the luxury tax. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Where did I say the Nets should match in this conversation. I said it in the past of debates before Denver came with their front loaded offer. And when the shock 1st hit me that all we got was draft picks, But I never once even discussed K-Mart being matched or not being a Net next.</div> Heh. I could find it, but this is my lunch break. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And once again you are the one talking about Gasol does this better than Martin & that better than Martin </div> It's true. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Hmmm.... Iam going under the assuption that the guys main goal is making & saving money, thats it thats all.</div> Which owner's objective is not that? Which owner is like "hey I'm gonna blow all my money just to lose." <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And you say you listen to Mike & the Mad dog, well based on the calls they get on this guy from people discussing the Martin situation, the move to Brooklyn etc a large part of the tri-state area is under the same assumption as me. </div> All interpretations, analysis secondary information. Till I hear him say it, I don't mind much what the public at large believe. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Yes but the Nets will aslo have alot of other roster spots to fill then just PF. If you give Gasol max, and Jefferson max, with kidd getting max please explaint to me how you do this without getting affected by the luxury tax. </div> Read above. Brush yourself up with the CBA before asking. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Because you cant sign a bunch of one year stiffs, with three max players you better put parts around them that will garuntee them being competive. </div> Ratner's a savy buisnessman. He's a bit too frugal, but he's smart. He's not rich by being stupid. He should know which players to invest in and which players to hold out on. And I understand that. In today's NBA, too many players are being overpaid. Hedo with a 39 million contract? Foyle with a 42 million? I think Ratner wants to avoid that and pay the right players what they deserve, and it's apparent in the Jefferson talks. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Ah.. where have you been people havent been exactly running the arena to see us during our 2 back to back finals run. And thats Marin and all his fastbreak antics. </div> Martin wouldn't have any fastbreaks without Kidd. Kidd makes a player a star. Did it with McDyess. Did it with Marion. Did it with Jefferson and Martin. He should be able to do it with Pau. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Could careless about Gasol to honest, But the chances of him getting max from the Nets at this time is unrealistic.</div> Atleast it comes out. And unrealistic, probably, but no more unrealistic than the Nets taking on Howard. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> excuse? hmm.. more like reality, you have fantasies of Ratner paying max to 2 players the same year, if RJ elects not to take the extension this year. </div> And your fantasies of overpaying Howard and unsubstantied claims don't affect you? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> They won regular season games because of the depth simple as that. Not because of Gasol being some great leader like you make him out to be. I have seen some Grizzlies fans on this very board say that James Posey was their team MVP this year not Gasol. </div> There would be no depth without Gasol. Depth means that it extends beyond the starter. Who led the team in points. What about rebounds. What about blocks? I would say he was a big contributer. Posey is a a good swingman but it's rare to have a talented bigman like Pau. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Howard is an upgrade from our current frontline players of Kyle Davis, Jason Collins, Nenad Kristic, that in itself puts more wins on the table for the upcoming seasons</div> Skill wise yes. Future, no. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> You should tell me your the one getting all crazy with your fantasy of bring another max player to go along with Kidd's outragous contract and Jefferson's expected contract. If the Nets were already in the brooklyn building I could see where you are coming from but right now the Nets will be living off cost effective players & draft picks. And stay competive with that.</div> Howard isn't a cost effective player. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes they were, thats stupid to play on an injured ankle if you have a past ankle problems come on.</div> You don't know how injured Martin's ankle was. Zo knows more than both of us. Maybe Martin just said "man my ankle hurts" all practice and it was really nothing more than a small twist and there was no visible further injury. We don't know. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I said with a healthy Kidd, RJ & Howard, they have a legit shot, meaning Kidd & RJ are still the main difference makers. And Howard is their to compete against O'neal etc and keep the power forward postion competive. </div> Howard is not gonna stop O'Neal, is what we need to do. Trade for PJ Brown if you want that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Yes but Gasol at 80 million will frustrate Nets fans much more if he is a flop.</div> No one has called him a flop yet. What if he turns out to be a big star for the Nets? Don't be so pessimistic. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> No he affects cap space, Gasol would kill cap space.</div> Read above. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Neither one is that great denfesively on ball, I so why do you keep focusing on just Howard defense being bad, his defense wont be costing a 80+ million dollars is my whole point, What so hard to understand</div> And what's so hard to understand that Gasol is a better upgrade than Howard? Gasol's on the ball defense is solid. I can't say that enough for you to get that. He's a good shot blocker, better than Martin. He has a big wingspan and quick feet. He has the making to be a good defensive player on the ball. He just needs to work at it. And I don't think you watch Howard play enough on defense to realize how bad he is. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> What so hard to understand players get a certain amount of time where they stay in the league or a considered future superstars based on potenial. Once that ends alot fall by the waste side. Iam pretty sure that their will be some from the 2003 & 2004 class to fall waste side soon.</div> You're so unequivocal when you say things. I'm not your teacher so I'm not going to sit here and try to decipher your english. I make an effort to be clear. I expect the same. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Lets just end this debat by both agreeing to wait to hell freezes over until Gasol being a Net in the near future, because it aint going to happen next offseason.</div> I never said it was going to happen. I never said it was garunteed. What I did say was that I don't like your Howard proposal and interjected what I think the Nets should do. Both are proposals, and both have the same probability of happening, which is very low.
Anyway,you bring up Martin & the piston's again etc. man please I am not going thru this long process all over again. Iam just eding this debate by saying this go read the bottom sentence in today's post. I know what your going to say the post isnt legit anymore or what ever. But it clear talks about the Nets rebuilding so to speak over the next 4 years. Why do they say 4 years? because thats how long from now the Nets (if lucky) will be moving into their new building. Which means it makes no sense to have 3 max players on your roster during a time when you are trying to re-build. With three Max players you better be garunteed of being in the championship hunt, which the Nets want be unless those three have serious parts around them, which would end up costing Ratner money, so he isnt going to do it. If you have Howard and even if you are just a competive team, to keep the fans interested in the Nets until they move to brooklyn, you are not killing your cap situation. BTW, I never said the probablity of getting Howard was high, I said it was more realistic way to go then Gasol, nothing more nothing less.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyway,you bring up Martin & the piston's again etc. man please I am not going thru this long process all over again. </div> I honestly think you didn't read my entire post. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Iam just eding this debate by saying this go read the bottom sentence in today's post. I know what your going to say the post isnt legit anymore or what ever</div> What post, New York Post? If they're re-building then they might as well not take on any long-term contracts, including Howard. And keeping Howard wouldn't be enough to keep the fans interested. Die-hard fans wont leave if we went back sucking. The Nets fans that's been with us in hopes of a championship will leave because the highlight reels are over. The championship will be just a dream. So if you're gonna get wet, you might as well go swinning; meaning if we're gonna rebuild we might as well go full into rebuilding mode and get the big cap space we need.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I honestly think you didn't read my entire post</div> Nope because it was once again getting off the main topic, Once I read K-Mart & Pistons in the same sentence, I was pretty much done with that situation. If you feel K-Mart wasnt productive they way he should have been then so be it. Iam not going to try and convince you differently. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What post, New York Post? If they're re-building then they might as well not take on any long-term contracts, including Howard. And keeping Howard wouldn't be enough to keep the fans interested. Die-hard fans wont leave if we went back sucking. The Nets fans that's been with us in hopes of a championship will leave because the highlight reels are over. The championship will be just a dream. So if you're gonna get wet, you might as well go swinning; meaning if we're gonna rebuild we might as well go full into rebuilding mode and get the big cap space we need</div> I totally 100% agree, but from Bruce Ratner's standpoint he has to keep some interest in the Nets because the board isnt going to even approve bringing a dead franchise to NY. It just wouldnt benefit the city of New York, with the Knicks, Yankee etc. He plans on moving millions of people out their homes etc, so he got to give them a good enuff reason for the NY board to approve such a thing. And bringing the clippers-east isnt going to cut it. So a somewhat competive, fan interested team will be needed. If this was Charlotte any other major pro basketball franchise(before the Bobcats) around then I can see just bring in any expansion type team(which the Nets would be if the lost Jefferson & kidd, if they werent willing to be somewhat competive) But this is New York.
Well theres no use in arguing about trading players cause have lost all all our real trade bait. other then Kidd, jefferson, harris, and williams.
