Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by BonesJones, Apr 28, 2018.
Cj,trent,collins 16 to indiana for sabonis and brogdon.
That would downgrade our sg depth significantly for a guy who isn’t even better than CJ. Trent will also hopefully be re-signed for alot less than what Brogdon is making.
The noticeable upgrade wouldn’t be at a position of need. I think Sabonis is too good want to be the first big off of the bench, and you’ll also have to find a starting pf. And Indiana seems to think Turner/Sabonis can’t work, I don’t think a Nurkic/Sabonis frontcourt would work either.
there is no way in hell indy does that.
look to them moving oladipo
OK the season is over so here is my trade idea and what I would do after that. Before the draft... in fact tomorrow if it was allowed I would trade CJ and Ariza to the Sixers for Josh Richardson, Tobias Harris and the #21 pick.
I know that is a lot but the Sixers want to offload Harris' contract and CJ is ideal for that team so they've got to pay. In free agency I would go after Michael Carter-Williams and Nerlens Noel splitting the MLE. We would draft the best players available at 16 and 21. Re-sign Wenyen, let Melo and Hassan walk, Rio can opt into that 1.9 mil or walk... no one else really matters. I would do what I could to get Gary to sign an extension that averages around 15 mil over 4 years. A rotation of Dame, Gary, Richardson, Harris, Nurk, Zach, MCW, Hoodie and Noel would be great... much better than what we had this season. Our depth would be great too with Simons, Little, Wenyen, #16 and #21 all having a chance to earn minutes (Rio might be on the bench too but I bet he could get more money in Europe). If Hoodie isn't ready obviously we would hope that Little could step up and take his minutes but I think a somewhat diminished Rodney Hood will be ready by the time next season rolls around. With Dame getting a little better or just being as good as he was this season, Nurk getting better (just more consistent, in better shape and being aggressive with every field goal he attempts), Harris as a very potent third scoring option, excellent 3 and D from Richardson and Gary... and a fucking bench for once, we would be real contenders.
There isn't a Sixers fan in the world who wouldn't love that trade and that should give us pause.
Let them love it. We improve defensively and actually we get better on offense too. The defense is obvious. Offensively though Dame would stop getting the ball to MeJ so often so he could go one on 5, so Dame's usage would go up which would be a good thing but Nurk would still facilitate and much like Melo this season Harris is more than capable of getting his own shot... only Harris isn't 90 years old so he can get by some defenders. The guys in the starting lineup would stretch all defenses we would play. Dame and Nurk would find open shooters like they do but instead of putting the ball on the deck to try to set up their own offense (see CJ and Melo in all but the last two minutes of the game) these open shooters would take the fucking shot or rotate the ball to the open shooter if they were closed on by opposing defenses. We would get so many open threes and we would make them. Nurk would have the floor so spread out for him that he would dominate the paint on offense... our offense would be even better. Our defense would be much improved as well. Gary and Richardson are a huge huge upgrade over CJ and Ariza. Harris at the four would be very mobile and at 6'8" with a 6'11" wingspan he is very long. Nurk would anchor that defense.
If you don't think that we're getting enough from the Sixers then we should demand a future first as well but the trade makes sense for us. Just because it makes sense for them too doesn't mean you don't do it. Win win situations are a good thing, especially when we aren't in the same conference.
Edit: I forgot to mention that with Gary and Richardson on the wings we would have two guys and Dame, all capable of turning opponents over which would give us this thing called transition offense or some call it a fast break... I'm having a hard time remembering because it's been like a decade since we've seen that. Also Harris is athletic enough at the four to get out on those breaks with the other guys.
I'm starting to think that our greatest need is at PF, not SF. We have Ariza for one year while Little gets better, Hood gets well, and hopefully Gabriel could also play as a SF. I also think we need a fourth guard, someone who can shoot and pass (and hopefully defend).
seems nurk would be best suited to under 30 minutes a night, zach might just be the perfect back up to both he and whom ever becomes our starting 4.
I would love to see if Ben Simmons could be had for a package surrounding CJ and Collins with multiple draft picks going to Philly
Yes, if he is healthy.
I would love that trade. If we did that we could very well meet the 76ers in the finals. How awesome would that be?
Dame vs CJ
Trent vs Milton
Richardson vs Ariza
Harris vs Simmons
Nurkic vs Embiid
That would be fantastic, so much drama. Simmons and Harris have had to had a lot of practice time against each other and I know Dame and CJ have gone against each other a lot. Both teams would be so strong on both ends of the court. It would also be interesting historically obviously since the Sixers are the team we beat for our only championship.
Why would the Pacers want CJ when they have Oladipo?
Whiteside for KLove is coming folks! Get some championship pedigree on the team.
Geez, come on. I'm trying to eat.
I think that trade would work under the cap if we did it after the new NBA year started (meaning after the draft) and it was all future draft picks which didn't take up any cap space, if we drafted for Philly at #16 then Philly would have to send some salary back with Simmons. Obviously this trade couldn't work before the NBA new year because of Simmons' new contract making him a poison pill player. I love Simmons abilities on both ends but in today's NBA if we were giving up that much I would like a superstar back that can shoot the three. However if Philly offered it to us and it was two first rounders, Zach and CJ for Simmons and filler I think we'd have to do it.
I guess the starting lineup would be Dame, Gary, Ariza, Simmons and Nurk. I really don't see how we would start Melo since Simmons, Gary and Ariza would being so good defensively. Joined to Dame and Nurk we would have one of the league's top defenses along with an incredibly potent and versatile offense. I don't know how much we would want to give Melo or if we would want to bring him back at all if we did this trade because we would want to add two guys with the MLE, we would need a back up that could play the 5 and another player that could contribute right away and Melo is that. Also if that 5 wasn't a vet then our bench would be incredibly young, which while that would be exciting it could also be problematic if Simons, Nas and Wenyen didn't progress. If we could get Melo and lets say Nerlens Noel coming off of the bench and any two of Simons, Nas and/or Wenyen popped we would be able to beat the likes of the LA teams, the Bucks or the Raptors. We would be contenders and maybe even favorites immediately.
I just don't know how serious Elton Brand is when he says he is intent on building a champion around Simmons and Embiid... he sounds very serious and resolute and I always thought that their interest in CJ was due to the idea of how CJ's and Simmons' strengths and weaknesses offset each other and in theory would play so well together but who knows... I would pull the trigger if they offered the trade to us, I don't think it would happen if we were the pursuers.
Totally agree with this. If this were my decision, and I give up CJ to PHI and don’t get Simmons or Embiid back, I’m going to require Mattise Thybulle in the deal. LAC loved Shai too, and they had to give him up to get PG—and I don’t expect Thybulle to be nearly as good as Shai in his year 2.
If PHI wants CJ, they’re going to have to value him as much as we do. If they don’t, there’s no point in trading him for less than he’s worth to us. We’ve only seen Harris in the playoffs three times, two of them being the last two years where he’s been very pedestrian. Even though CJ can drive me nuts sometimes during the regular season, I know I can depend on him in the playoffs most of the time. These are CJ and Tobias’s playoff averages (since CJ’s first year as a full time starter vs Harris career):
Games CJ Tobias
PPG 23.2 15.4
RPG 4.5 9.3
APG 3.2 3.8
Shooting 44.1/39.1/77.1 42.1/31.1/78.9
CJ has also played in twice as many playoff games in that timespan, 40 vs 20. If these are the two guys we’re swapping, I’m expecting more revolving pieces on their end. Richardson will probably expect more money and decline his PO after this year and he’ll be just as indispensable as Ariza was.
I’d offer CJ, Ariza, and #16 for Harris, Thybulle, Richardson, and #21.
Trent, Richardson, Thybulle, and Little would be a good rotation at the wing position and having two guys in the game at all times would make sure Dame never has to guard the opposing best perimeter player. I’d be really concerned about not having another guy that can create his own shot though.
I would do that trade. Don’t forget about Hood on the wing too. And with melo likely returning, we would have Trent, Richardson, Harris, Thybulle, Hood, Little, and Melo covering the 2-4 spot. Those are solid guys there
This trade would allow us to focus on getting a back up point guard (Dragic/Teague) and a veteran big man
Um yeah... OK. That's not a demonstrably better deal in any way shape or form. If CJ is so valuable why do we have to trade back in the draft to acquire a guy who plays behind Glen Robinson III when everyone is healthy? Don't get me wrong, I like Thybulle as a throw in, he shoots well and defends well against second stringers but the idea of the trade is that for us Josh Richardson is an upgrade at the wing over CJ because he is a great defender and a guy who knows his role and will take an open three when someone like Dame sets him up with one... instead of looking at that open three and then putting the ball on the floor to go one on one with a defender that for some reason CJ always wants to give time to recover. Harris is there because he fills another need for us and like CJ is overpaid, so he also makes the trade work as far as salary cap goes. If the Sixers would throw in Thybulle I'd be cool with it and if we had to trade back 5 spots I guess I'd be cool with that too. If they didn't want to include Thybulle but instead wanted to give us the 21st pick that wouldn't be a deal breaker for me. We would still be improving our defense immensely and we wouldn't be losing any outside shooting.
The idea is that Gary slips into CJ's spot, Richardson slips into Ariza's spot, Harris sends Zach to the bench effectively taking Melo's spot and thus giving us our full MLE to get another rotation player or two. Our front line then has better scoring at the 4 and better defense everywhere. We are also deeper with or without Thybulle being included but like I said, if we can get him great. Also that CJ/Tobias comparison is whack you have some of those stats from career numbers and others from this season but however you got them they're not an accurate representation. Look at this season's numbers because that is where these guys are at right now. Tobias shoots a percentage point worse from three and a couple percentage points better overall, he gets like an assist less than CJ and a couple more boards per game but that would likely be better if he was playing defense at the 4 instead of at SF like he was this season. One good thing that you're not remembering about both Harris and Richardson is that even though they usually just play their respective roles, both can get their own shot... just remember when Richardson went off on CJ in the bubble and watch video on Harris.
Id like to bring in Damyean Dotson. Good shooter and good defender. Strong guy, too, and a pro with a chip on his shoulder. Could be a good fit, and shouldnt cost too much.
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