Trade Ideas Thread

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by BonesJones, Apr 28, 2018.

  1. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    The trade I proposed increased Portland's payroll by ~$5M. So the question should be: Is Porter worth $5M more than Ariza. Given his age and the opportunity to re-sign him (to a lower $), I think the answer is yes.
     
  2. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I wasn't analyzing your trade in a vacuum--I was contrasting it with mine directly above, which would net us Elfrid Payton as a backup PG, and lower our payroll by $2M. So essentially I'm asking, is Otto Porter over Ariza worth $7M and a legit backup for Dame?
     
  3. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this trade has to leave our bench too bad because our MLE, Hood coming back, Nas and Wenyen will all be able to contribute and a lot of people in here think Melo is going to come back for the min. However I don't know if we get Oladipo for Zach, Ariza, Ant and the 21st pick. If we were going to do a trade with the Sixers for CJ and get Harris back I still think we would could and should just go with:

    CJ and Ariza

    for

    Harris, Richardson and the 21st pick.

    I honestly think both teams do that and we wouldn't have to give up as much. I realize that Richardson isn't as flashy of a pickup as Oladipo but I think he fits better on the perimeter with Dame and Gary. I think we would then just use our MLE on a PG and then if we get a good enough backup PG for part of the MLE, get a big with the rest. I don't think we need two or three rookies and I think future picks wouldn't be great, so I would try to package picks together to move up to a place in the draft where we get a player that has more potential to make an impact in the future maybe someone who has slid down the draft quite a bit.

    Dame, Gary, Richardson, Harris, Nurk, Zach, Backup PG, hopefully Hood, with Nas, a re-signed Wenyen, whatever rookie we get, and Ant competing for minutes after that. I really think especially if Hood is healthy, that is a contending lineup/rotation. Some might ask who our second guy who can get their own shot is and I would say that both Harris and Richardson are capable of doing that although Harris would be the guy with that role on this team. On offense Dame would do even more than he does now probably getting more assists not necessarily having to score more and then Nurk and Harris would be options 2a and 2b. On defense we would be worlds better our perimeter would no longer be a weakness but a strength and Harris is much better suited to defend the 4 than the three... he would be good and Nurk would be really good. Zach, a solid PG and Hood off the bench would be a stronger bench than we had this season, plus I know that Wenyen and Nas are going to be ready to contribute and if we can trade up for the right guy who falls that player might be ready to contribute too. Obviously after the trade we would try and get extensions done with Gary and Richardson.
     
  4. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Know where you are going or end up somewhere else!

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    Ok, here's my contribution to trade talk involving Blazers.
    New York needs star scoring power in the garden, so I think CJ would be the perfect match in New York. He would probably be an all star in NYC and he's also a media disciple, what better place for him to be? Fans there would love CJ and he would leverage the market to the max and not have to be in Dames shadow anymore.

    CJ & Little for Randle, Ellington, & Smith or Nit
     
  5. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I want Payton in any CJ for Randle+ deal.
     
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  6. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Busta!

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    You are correct, sir.
     
  7. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    And if the #8 accompanied (without the 16 outgoing)?
     
  8. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    See, I think the Knicks would give up Payton, Randle and #8 for CJ. They would then have CJ and Barrett in the back court and over 30 million to spend on free agents. If they started Bobby Portis at PF they could probably add a guy like Jerami Grant to start at SF and still have enough cash to get one of the bigger name Cs on the market like Gasol, Drummond or even our former guy Hassan. If it was McCollum, Barrett, Grant, Portis, Drummond, MLE, and either Smith or Ntilikina stepped up the Knicks would be a big time team in the East. We would have an opportunity to trade the 8th and 16th pick to go up and get someone higher that could make a difference on this team. Then we'd still have our full MLE to get another rotation player or two. I think we would be a far better team than we were this season and a better team than we were in the bubble. Dame, Gary, Ariza, Randle, Nurk, Payton, Zach, Hoodie, #4 pick, MLE, Little. That's a better starting lineup in my opinion and by far a better bench than we've ever had with a Dame led team.

    For the record I would still rather trade CJ and Ariza for Harris, Richardson and the 21st pick but that's a completely different trade.
     
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  9. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I'd love that if it were possible. Honestly, that seems super imbalanced for us, but maybe I'm just undervaluing CJ.
     
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  10. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Busta!

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    Still no. I think that those two players are actually subtraction by addition. Randle's a me-first, no-defense stat-chaser, and Payton can't shoot, which is a deathknell in the NBA now.
     
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  11. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Sounds like CJ.
     
  12. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Busta!

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    Not to me.
    upload_2020-10-6_17-51-18.png

    upload_2020-10-6_17-50-23.png
     
  13. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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  14. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    How the fuck can you value a stat that shows that CJ's contributions are equal on defense and offense? Surely you recognize that CJ is a far superior offensive player than he is a defensive player, right? So that stat has to be garbage, right?
     
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  15. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    This is the hallmark of a deal that should happen. One guy in here thinks the Knicks get screwed, another guy in here thinks we get screwed and I think both teams get better. @Rastapopoulos I see your complaints and think there is some validity to them but I do think you need to watch some film. Randle is incredibly capable as a defender on the perimeter and in the paint, he also has the athleticism to transition from one to the other. He has really good hands defensively and doesn't foul a lot. He's also a rebound machine. On offense the guy is very good... again I know his numbers don't show it but he has a really nice jumper with three point range, he just can't shoot them contested. He can handle the ball but shouldn't as much as he has had to on both the Knicks and Lakers. He is a good passer when he keeps the play in front of him. He scores in the paint like an athletic ZBo. The problem with him this last season was the team he was playing on. He was their first option and he's just not that. If Dame is initiating the offense and Nurk is our primary inside scorer Randle will be able to do a lot of good things for us offensively. I think that Randle would be a huge upgrade from Zach at PF and that makes Zach a monumental upgrade from anything we had on the bench at PF and C last season. In this trade our front court gets much better. As far as Payton is concerned we don't need another shooter, we need a play maker and defender off the bench. We have Dame, Gary, Ariza and Hoodie who all play on the perimeter and can all hit the three, we can afford to have a legitimate backup PG that doesn't shoot well... he's not starting. We also get the 8th pick in a less than spectacular draft but it's still the 8th pick.

    I know I just made your argument for you @PtldPlatypus but I really believe that the Knicks need perimeter scoring, I think they need someone who will run their offense, they will have the cap space to add another major piece to CJ and all of their young talent. I do think if CJ was given the Knicks as his team, he would lead them to the playoffs consistently. I think CJ has the offensive game and mindset to handle leading the Knicks. If a few of their young players develop, CJ does what I think he is capable of and they get the right complementary piece in free agency they could really make some noise. That's more than what they look like they will do with their current roster even if you add one of the free agents in their price range that are out there.
     
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  16. Buffalo Custard

    Buffalo Custard Well-Known Member

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    Which is what worries me. Shouldn't we be targeting guys who can play both ends?
     
  17. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I think you articulated all my thoughts on that proposal pretty much perfectly.
     
  18. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't call it garbage, but for CJ it's definitely an outlier. ESPN's calculations of RPM have become real noisy since John Hollinger left

    it's the only stat that makes CJ look good. All the others, PER, TS%, Ast%, winshares, BPM, VORP show CJ as only a little above average. And the play-type stats at NBA.com show the same thing

    so when about a dozen different kinds of stats show a player as a little or a bit more above average, and one stat shows him well above average, you have to be skeptical about that one stat

    CJ thrives off of volume opportunity; dominating the ball, burning shot clock, and taking lots of shots. But he's not an efficient player at all

    by the way, RPM says these guys are better than Dame:

    Kyle Lowry, PG Jayson Tatum, PF Duncan Robinson, SG Joel Embiid, C Russell Westbrook, PG Khris Middleton, SF Christian Wood, PF Zion Williamson, SF Kristaps Porzingis, PF
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
  19. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Busta!

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    Wow, with a single insight you have destroyed an entire stat!
     
  20. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Viva Busta!

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    There are some guys who can put up stats but nobody (but terrible franchises) wants. Randle is one of them. Maybe he'll work it out - Zach Randolph did. We'll see. All I know is that he hasn't yet.
     

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