Trade Ideas Thread

Don't like RPM? Try WINS:

Interesting that both of them make Tobias Harris look good, too.

 

To be clear: I'm not against trading CJ. I've suggested roughly 5000 CJ trades over the years. I'm not even against trading him to the Knicks. But I'd want these three things as part of it:
1. 2021 First round pick: must be COMPLETELY UNPROTECTED
2. Mitchell Robinson
3. Frank Ntilikina (I'm a fan)

I'd settle for the first two.

 

Got to love these statistics where they will not share how they are calculated....
At least they let you know that WINS is a function of RPM scaled up with playing time. It's basically the same stat.

 

it's the same stat simply weighted in favor of minutes. RPM x Minutes. The higher the minutes, the higher RPM wins. All those columns are just RPM

you keep arguing in favor of CJ, or at least against trading him, and you keep using that single stat as your argument, as if that stat is primary in setting CJ's value. If that's true, then Duncan Robinson, Russell Westbrook, Christian Wood, Daniel Theis, Joe Ingles, Shaquille Harrison, D.J. Augustin, Brook Lopez, Patrick Beverley, Nikola Vucevic, Ricky Rubio, Danilo Gallinari, & Dennis Schroder are all better players than CJ with more value, just to name a few

the problem with basing a statistical argument for a player on all aspects of play based upon one single stat is pretty obvious: it could easily be skewed, one way of the other. I mean, according to RPM, Russell Westbrook is a better player than Dame, and we know that's bullshit

 

Yeah, I see him as a much more athletic ZBo. I think what would have accelerated ZBo's ascension to all-star/all nba status would have been a leader like Dame and being able to be the second or third option on a really good team instead of so often being tasked with so much on such bad teams that it stunted his development. Look at Randle's performance the one year he wasn't asked to be the man... he was fantastic for the Pelicans. Especially when AD was playing but when AD sat out Randle was still very good because he was still the number two guy, maybe the number one scorer, but definitely the number two to Jrue. He would flourish here especially if we had the ball in Dame's hands the overwhelming majority of time, then had it in Nurk's and third had it in Randle's on offense. On defense he has all of the talents and skills to be very effective defending inside and out. Again, try not to be too enamored with stats for a guy who has only ever been given one season to play with other good ball players. When looking at someone like Randle as a third option you really have to look at the tape to see what skills and talents are there because that's what this team will be getting... not someone who is asked to do everything on his own on a failing team.

 

So we get cap relief, a guy who is redundant to Nurk, a future first that will undoubtedly be worse than this year's because CJ will help that team so much especially because you are letting them keep a great number two option to CJ in Randle. Oh and then maybe a backup guard that does make more sense for this team. I just don't know if that's enough or does anything to help Dame now. I'd much rather get a guy who has shown he knows how to score and rebound very well and has shown he has the skills and talent to do much more at PF and a proven backup PG who knows how to facilitate offense and defend well... along with the 8th pick this year all of which can potentially help us now.

I think we both agree on one thing, a CJ and Ariza for Harris, Richardson and the 21st pick is a better deal and probably the best deal the Blazers can get to be much better next season.

 

2 Bleacher Report proposals for your entertainment.

CJ+Ariza+Little for Middleton+Hill
Collins+Ariza+Hood for Aldridge

That second one shows just how little people around the league think of some of our players.

 

Well i suppose both of those are fair trades in terms of value. I don't like the fit of Aldridge though, he is slow for PF.

 

I would be hesitant to do Ariza-LaMarcus straight up.

 

If the Bucks would do that first one it would be a really smart and solid deal for both teams. We get a lot better defensively on the perimeter by replacing CJ and Ariza with Gary and Middleton, plus we get the backup guard we need in Hill that can guard both 1s and 2s and can run the offense. I would give up Little in the deal but if Milwaukee proposed the deal I would counter with the 16th pick instead of Little and see if they'd take that but I really like Nas. Hell I might start even lower than that and offer Ant, then if they said no to that offer the 16th and then if they still stuck to their guns I would eventually just give up Little.

 

Well, you'd have to qualify that as "contributed more to their teams," because that's what all +/- stats are supposed to measure. And obviously that's going to be a relative measure.

I actually prepared a post going through talking about each of the players you picked - and then I realized that of your list, only Westbrook is above CJ in WINS. And as WINS is just RPM adjusted for minutes (according to you), I'll go with WINS.

Okay, so that just leaves Westbrook. Would I trade CJ for him? Hell no. Did he have a great season for the Rockets? Hell yes. People forget because he looked so bad in the Bubble, but he put up some pretty amazing numbers for the Rockets. Certainly surprised me, as I thought they'd never coexist. But they did. Until they didn't.

 

GTJ + #16 to ??

Onyeka Okongwu to Portland

 

don't get me wrong Rasta....I'm not so much pushing back against your defense of CJ as I am against using a single statistical category as a benchmark on a player's value. As you may know, I've been hammered here for posting "paragraphs" of stats, because when I do try to make a statistical gauge of a player, I tend to use as many stats as I can find. I won't use one, I'll use a dozen

I mean, if you're talking about 3 point shooting, then 3 point shooting % is a valid gauge when normalized for attempts. But if you're talking about who are the best scorers and shooters, then efficiency gauges like TS% are integral to the discussion

just to be clear, I wouldn't trade CJ for Tobias Harris because Harris has a bigger flexibility-killing contract, and is a lateral trade talent-wise, although perhaps a little better fit. I'd even have some reservations about trading CJ for Khris Middleton, even though I think Middleton is clearly better. He has a bigger contract for one thing. For another, I just don't think Dame + Middleton significantly alters Portland's trajectory over Dame + CJ. Maybe a little but probably not enough to make a difference

rather than a trade like those, I'd rather see a CJ trade that brought in a decent wing and some needed cap-relief, along with perhaps a draft pick

 

I don't know if I'd do CJ for Harris straight up either but CJ and Ariza for Harris, Richardson and the 21st pick is the CJ trade idea I like the most. Would you be interested in that?

 

Because Aldridge doesn't fit next to Nurk. I cannot believe you think Ariza is a better player in a vacuum.

 

As you say - I just can't see him functioning with Nurk. He might have value for some teams, but I'm not convinced Portland is one of them!

 

I agree, Aldridge is a five now due to having lost several steps, so he would not fit with Nurk. For our purposes and frankly any team who wants to keep their current 5 if that 5 can't guard the perimeter, Ariza at least next year is better than LA. Now if San Antonio called and offered Aldridge straight up for Ariza if we could make that work, then I would get on the phone and see what we could get for LA in a three team deal, from a team that A. valued and could use Aldridge and B. had the extra cap room to absorb the 11 million more that he is making.

 

3 more trade proposals, this time from Fansided. All appear to be pure speculation.

Collins+16 to the Wiz for the 9th pick.
Collins+16 to Detroit for the 7th pick.
Simons+16+46 to the Hawks for the 6th pick.

As a bonus, they also mention Simons + 16 for Reddish. Why would the Hawks do either of those trades?

Fire away!

 

I wouldn't give up on Zach just yet so I don't think I'd do the first two deals but it would be a tough call. I'd like Simons and the picks for the 6th the best (Toppin might be there at 6 and he's the most NBA ready player in the draft and can play both forward positions) but I'd also pull the trigger on the Cam Reddish deal.

 

I don't think anybody would want Zach that hasn't proven shit or that he can stay healthy. And he also has upcoming extension. Zach would be the last player i would like to get from the Blazers roster if i was to give back a high pick.

Btw Reddish looked amazing after his terrible start. Great improvement game by game.