Trade Scenarios?

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by Custodianrules2, Apr 17, 2006.

  1. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    Ah okay, thanks -- <scratches chin, gets out calculator and says to self: "Hmm, now where can we ship Foyle's a$$ for $6,093,750 worth of contracts?">

    Lol it's funny that Chad Ford actually mentioned Foyle's name in a serious trade proposal. Who the hell will take the big fella?
     
  2. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, thanks. But I thought, according to NBA trade rules, the total value of the respective deals needs to be within like hundred thousand dollars of eachother. So, if you wanted to trade Foyle's $7 mil contract, you had to take back contracts which total between like 6.9 -- 7.1 million or so. But maybe that's just for teams that are over the cap. I guess teams under the cap don't have to follow that rule?</div>

    Correct. If there's cap available, the team with cap just has to absorb the dollar amount remainder from the contracts being swapped. So Foyle can be traded to a team for another player with a smaller deal so long as that other team can absorb the difference in dollars from Foyle's contract minus their player that they are trading.

    If two teams are both over the cap, then the "25% trade rule" or Traded Player exception comes into play (this often pops up on RealGM or ESPN's trade checker quite a bit for most people LOL). If both teams are over the salary cap and they are trading immediately, then this happens:

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The Traded Player exception is the primary means used by teams over the cap for completing trades. It allows teams to make trades that leave them over the cap, but it places several restrictions on those trades. Trades using the Traded Player exception are classified into two categories: simultaneous and non-simultaneous. As its name suggests, a simultaneous trade takes place all at once. Teams can acquire up to 125% plus $100,000 of the salaries they are trading in a simultaneous trade. For example, a team trading a $5 million player in a simultaneous trade can receive one or more players whose salary is no more than 125% of $5 million, plus $100,000, or $6.35 million in return.</div>

    http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm (This is a very credible source in terms of online CBA stuff. If you don't believe it, then we can quote the original CBA document if preferred, but I won't.)

    What they don't go into right away is that some players's contracts have trade kicker clauses or BYC rules or poison pill provision rules which mess with the way the dollar amount counts in those trades.

    Any further CBA information is stickied in the Warriors Lounge.

    Hoopshype is a good estimate for salary information, but I think RealGM and ESPN have better information if you want to know what contracts have BYC, PPP, or rookie scale contracts...
     
  3. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Update: Warriors worked out these guys so far:

    Hilton Armstrong - 6'11 235 lbs PF/C
    Paul Davis - 6'11 250 lbs PF/C
    Sheldon Williams - 6'9 245 lbs PF/C
    Daniel Kickert - 6'10 240 lbs PF
    Christian Maraker - 6'9 235 lb PF

    James White - 6'7 190 lbs G/F
    Tarence Kinsey - 6'6 189 lbs SG
    Shawne Williams - 6'9 210 lbs F
    Guillermo Diaz - 6'2 186 lbs G
    Curtis Stinson - 6'3 215 lbs G


    http://www.hoopshype.com/past_workouts.htm
     
  4. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    Huh - no O'Bryant yet, eh?
     
  5. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    It would be wierd for the Warriors to deal for a Big salary-31 year old,whether it's Iverson, A Walker,Ilgauskas or ? We ranked 23 of 30. If we were a top 10,and could get a bargain deal...way different. The thing of us getting Iverson AND Webber for MOST of our talent...and budget..that's nuts.
    ...I'd hate to even watch that. Webber,Dun,Iverson,Fish,what a lineup Monty could infest us with...
     
  6. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">Huh - no O'Bryant yet, eh?</div>

    Would it be feasible to get two center projects at once? I mean look at the Sonics... or even the Celtics. It's almost like who do we focus on developing?

    I'm also starting to wonder if skill should speak louder than the athletic potential of some project who played basketball overseas for only a few years. I mean we'll never get a star if we keep landing in weak drafts or falling in the mid lottery range or going for guys that never realize their potential.

    I just hope we bet on a winning horsey and surround him with as many capable basketball players that can perform and also mentor him. I can be patient with Biedrins, but give us a guy that can fill in in the mean time. Foyle is doing a sht job so far. I mean how do you run a offense when your guy in the post can't even catch and has the clumsiest footwork and some poor finesse around the basket. I mean how many dunks has he missed total in two seasons compared to everyone else? Perhaps, Foyle should use two hands next time to flush it down, granted he actually leaves the ground high enough to get his wrist over the rim. But I guess two hands would double complicate things since one or the other would bobble or drop it into the stands.

    Anyway I ramble. Guys like Biedrins should be surrounded by capable and consistent vets + some star players. I mean guys like Jermaine O'neil must have had some good players around him before he became a star. I'm sure he wasn't surrounded by a bunch of rookies or 3 year guys still figuring out the game. Let's also hope Biedrins even has a ceiling somewhere near Jermaine O'neil otherwise we bet on the wrong horsey. I think Biedrins can be a nasty in your face JO/Kmart type of guy, but he's doing his job as a role player. As he gets stronger I think he can be more of an intimidator that can stare somebody down. He's just not strong or skilled enough to seal off most guys and our own guards don't look for Biedrins enough. Still 7 feet long and 36 inch standing vertical, rebounds, great hands, shotblocks and plays rough and has some drop step moves with some nice finesse within close range of the basket. That's something nice. He just needs to get stronger and a little smarter.

    Back to POB, he has a different body type compared to Biedrins, but there's a different kind of potential waiting. I just wonder if he's got the motor to be a star. He did some nice things in the NCAA tourney, but one can only wonder if he's as good as he's cracked up to be or if he's just all height and good athleticism. One thing I like about POB is he shoots free throws. 70% ain't bad for the biggest dude on the floor who naturally doesn't have much shot range to begin with. I wouldn't pay attention to the predraft combine testings. They totally rated Monta Ellis as a poor athlete last season and Taft didn't do that well either. Go figure.
     
  7. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">It would be wierd for the Warriors to deal for a Big salary-31 year old,whether it's Iverson, A Walker,Ilgauskas or ? We ranked 23 of 30. If we were a top 10,and could get a bargain deal...way different. The thing of us getting Iverson AND Webber for MOST of our talent...and budget..that's nuts.
    ...I'd hate to even watch that. Webber,Dun,Iverson,Fish,what a lineup Monty could infest us with...</div>
    If we go the Knicks route that would kill us. All Mullin has to do is figure out for sure what kind of team he wants to build and go with it. Its not as unfixable as it seems, but back in '04 he really built a team with lack of vision and no solid direction. He even decided that Richardson/Murphy/Dunleavy was our core. That's a really mediocre core.

    Now that we're finally getting some nice big man prospects I think we can finally have some inside game and interior defense that we've been looking for. If the team gets built with promising talent with lots of strengths, that wants to be here and doesn't let their ego get in the way, I don't see why these guys couldn't grow up to be playoff contenders. The problem is too much of our roster is built from guys who just aren't fitting or aren't going to help our club win more than we lose. We got Jason Richardson and a few nice prospects, but I'm not sure about anyone else. I think they all suck at one aspect or another. Now if we had a balance of inside/outside offense, it should have better ball movement if guys are smart enough to make the right decisions on offense. If we had a solid defense and suitable quickness in transition, we could run all day or force the game to a grinding halt. Either way we control the tempo rather than being forced to run because "that's the only way our offense really does anything and then we get killed going back the other way". Now free throws is another separate issue... luckily Ellis/Taft are supposed to be pretty good and Monta Ellis is yet to be consistent.

    I wouldn't count on Baron Davis being healthy much, so I'm assuming its another year where he'll play 40 or so games and then ride the pine. He's like like Speedy Claxton part II only more disruptive to the offense when he lets his emotions go wild.
     
  8. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Alright, back to trade scenarios.

    Out: Adonal, Pietrus, 9 pick
    In: Camby, Buckner

    Denver supposedly is willing to deal anyone except Carmelo. It looks like they're keeping Nene who can play PF or C as well as Francisco Elson. Camby is 33 years old, always injured, and they hae no first round picks in the draft. With this trade they get a lotto pick to help them with their mini-rebuilding process (more like re-tooling process), with it they can take Foye, Brewer, Shelden, POB, Simmons, Carney, Marcus Williams, whoever. Pietrus gives them some instant production at SG, he can guard the star swingmen since Carmelo is allergic to defense and he can score a hell of alot more than Buckner and Dermarr Johnson. Foyle is a bad contract but 3 years isn't too long and he's a good shotblocker who is never injured. Warriors may also throw in the Philly pick or Zarko to sweeten the pot.

    New lineup:
    Andre Miller/Boykins
    Pietrus/Hodge/Dermarr Johnson
    Carmelo/Rueben Patterson/Kleiza
    K-Mart/Najera/Nene
    Nene/Foyle/Elson
    (Plus the 9th pick will be somewhere in there)

    Warriors ditch Foyle's crappy contract and get back an all-star and DPOY calibur center, albeit an injury prone, 33 year old one with 4 more years on his contract. Buckner is a good defender and 3 point shooter and an expiring contract, somewhat one dimensional but he can contribute since he adds in areas which we need help with. I like that both the players we get in return are experienced veterans who can teach the young players how to play defense properly. We can draft a swingman with the 38 pick (Bobby Jones, PJ Tucker, Shawne Williams, Hassan Adams, Renaldo Balkman, etc)

    New lineup:
    Baron/DFish/Monta/Bynum
    J-Rich/Monta/Buckner
    Dunleavy/(38 pick?)/Buckner
    Murphy/Ike/Zarko/Taft
    Camby/Biedrins/Taft
     
  9. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Actually, I wouldn't mind that... How about start Ike? Something about Dunleavy + Murphy being on the floor together just really doesn't seem appealing.
     
  10. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    What, you don't like the slow-mo one-two punch of that beefy forward tandem? Between the two of them they have like a 35 inch vertical leap!
     
  11. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AlleyOop:</div><div class="quote_post">What, you don't like the slow-mo one-two punch of that beefy forward tandem? Between the two of them they have like a 35 inch vertical leap!</div>

    Holy crap, Dunleavy jumps 34 inches??
     
  12. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    You're forgetting the pink duns he wears -- without those it's more like 4 inches
     
  13. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    Still beats Foyle in the hop over a phone book contest.
     
  14. taurus515th

    taurus515th JBB JustBBall Member

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    Jason Richardson for Bulls #2, #16, Chris Duhon, and Michael Sweetney l[​IMG]l i wish.
     
  15. boogiescott

    boogiescott JBB JustBBall Member

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    I wouldn't count on Baron Davis being healthy much, so I'm assuming its another year where he'll play 40 or so games and then ride the pine. He's like like Speedy Claxton part II only more disruptive to the offense when he lets his emotions go wild.


    I have to disagree with you about BAron, I think he realizes that this upcoming season could be a career defining season. Will he return to all-star form or continue to be the oft injured "it's my way or no way " kind of guy.

    I have read that he is working out in oakland. I think he comes to camp in the best shape of his career. I think he plays a healthy season 70+ games, and becomes the player we all know and expect him to be. I think he might even return to all star form this season, though it might only last a season or two before he returns to the old baron. So the time is now, BAron will have a big season this year. Start grooming Ellis to be our back up point ala Tony Parker. They have similar styles and skills. And get the best we can out of baron the next two seasons.

    The only thing that worries me is the mistake of retaining Monty as coach. Hopefully, Baron can bite the bullet and accept Monty's Incompetencies and failings as our coach. Ijust don't see those to aligning.

    Perhaps we can get rid of or move fisher and foyle, the two guys that are incapable of playing in a motion or running offense.

    My point .... i think Baron has a statement type season.
     
  16. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    Mullin's contract boo-boos,and him getting and keeping Monty may have him on fairly thin ice. He sticks with a Monty who's just the same thing-and He's Ahab lashing himself to a dying whale...not a good career move.

    He's kind of used his slack. We traded Jamison for zero to clean up $ issues-then did the Dampier-Najara deals same-same. If we go dealing Foyle + Murphy for a walkaway-it shines a very bright spotlight on how damaging that bad signing was and raises also the question of what's the price to unload Dunleavy.

    So...Mully can't go high risk on some big costly deal. He adds Iverson (for example) at a high cost..and it backfires..he's in trouble.
     
  17. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    I agree with all those points, and these things could easily be fixed if they just pick the right balance of players who can defend, score, act as a team. Coaching experience is probably only part of the problem. The right talent and teamwork that is keeping us from having that sought after identity, is a major one. Because ultimately how does one find an identity for a team that has no identity because of their player makeup and long term investment. That and not having the experience to give coaching staff the benefit of the doubt that they will perform as expected. I just don't think it is a healthy or wise thing to develop so many young guys at once with our current starting vets in place. If Pietrus is failing Dunleavy ain't going to bail him out and Pietrus won't necessarily do those things that Dunleavy does well. If Foyle is failing, Biedrins ain't going to bail him out and Biedrins won't physically keep guys out of the paint as well as Foyle. Both Foyle and Dunleavy provide safer role playing than any of their replacements off the bench and its obvious those type of players get in the way of deciding what kind of team we want to be. We can't really run with those guys if one guy can't shoot and another guy can't finish. Then Murphy in the running game is basically a trail three type of guy rather than his catch and shoot midrange shooter on the drive attack by one of our guards. It's jumbled collection of talent signed with big contracts and not a team that has any sort of vision. I think that's the biggest problem. All this has caused us to really put Baron and Montgomery and Mullin under intense scrutiny because those were all guys who were supposed to make things better. Next will probably be a few other guys like maybe Ike or Ellis or Jrich even. If we dig deeper, we'll probably find out in due time that some of our rookies off the bench weren't as good as they were hyped up to be because they can't stay consistent.
     

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