Trail of Tears

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by TBpup, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    It's interesting how you have this conclusion. I think 11th is actually pretty good.

    How would we rank teams like Dallas or Miami? Boston is thought to have a great GM. Houston has been good. I certainly dont think Olshey is one of the best, but I think he's a bit better than average.

    After the Kevin Pritchard Rich Cho Chad Buchanan era I think better than average isnt bad. My fear in replacing Olshey is we get a bad GM.
     
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  2. kjironman1

    kjironman1 Well-Known Member

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    This was a very good conversation guys. i learned some things from it.
     
  3. kjironman1

    kjironman1 Well-Known Member

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    It's a bad look for sure.
    I read a comment somewhere questioning if the team was for sale now? At first i wondered if that could be the case? But even that doesn't really make sense. Paying to get rid of a player that doesn't even really get you in a better position just seems like a total fail?
    If Olshey tried to get rid of Whiteside and there simply was no market? That would make more sense? I also can understand him not coming out and saying that. "Well we wanted to dump Hassan but there wasn't a team willing to take him" would not be a good way to address the situation either.
    It seems to me the "Human" factor came into play this season.
     
  4. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers RipCity

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    Bro, an injured Skal is not worth all the heartache.
     
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  5. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    What's interesting is that nobody has any inside information as to what was tried and what was available as far as being able to get under the tax. The attempts could have very easily been tried but no takers. Skal was a fun player, but if he can't play then he has no value and thus why he was possibly off loaded. No reason to continue paying a player that can't play but posters still complain without knowing the whole story of what transpired up to the trade deadline. :dunno:
     
  6. kjironman1

    kjironman1 Well-Known Member

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    @hoopsjock has some valid points though. From a business point of view and as far as creating a team that can compete or can be in a position to get better this might well be the worst case scenario that happened. I'm going to just hope the returning players and the players they are invested in at this point can make a run. The Blazers now need to get through not just this season but for the most part next season as well to make any real moves. We don't need "INSIDE INFORMATION" to know this.
     
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  7. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    since Nurkic has joined the Blazers he's missed 93 of 266 games. That's 35%, or about 29 games a year. He's been a Blazer for 3 playoffs and has only been healthy in one. Now, this could all just be random, but considering he missed 50 games the season before he was traded to Portland, he has a scary injury history. Add that season, and he's missed 143 of 348 games....that's 41% of games
     
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  8. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    Worst case scenario? I think it's being over blown. We have the possibility of re-signing Whiteside, we have around 10 mil to go after a free agents, a few TPE's as well as some young players on rookie or low cost contracts that can move. This year is looking like a down year with a possibility of getting the 8th seed but that's probably the best to expect this year. Next year the team will be retooled and players will hopefully be healthy and then make a run. That's where I disagree with hoopsjock as he acts like this team is done now and in the future where as I see it as a one year hiatus and then back to the grind. Trading Whiteside appears to not have been as lucrative as we had hoped and after seeing the Drummond trade that pretty much shows that to be the case.

    By the way, my INSIDE INFORMATION comment was based on complaining about deals that didn't happen without knowing if deals were even discussed. It's like deciding a verdict without hearing the testimony or evidence.
     
  9. kjironman1

    kjironman1 Well-Known Member

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    10 Million max. Most likely 6-8 million. Not enough to retool. This is not enough money to go after a player that will really make a difference. Looks more like 2 years and possibly 3 to me. This year and next are in the books. They have to perform with what they have.
    I'm hoping they can gel with these players and really start to compete. But look at the obvious issues. Hood has to come back and come back strong. Collins has to come back and come back strong. Nurk has to come back and come back strong. 1M has to develop into a better player than can run the second unit. Little has to continue to develop and become a much better player overall. Melo has to start actually making shots. Whiteside has to not only decide to stay but sign for a contract they can afford and not pay excessive amounts of tax for. Then he has to be willing to play with and around Nurk. Ariza has to not get older? I'm not worried about Lillard or CJ. We know what we have there.
    So many things have to go right at this point and they are now going to be a repeater tax team.
     
  10. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    in a 30 team league, I don't think averaging 11th best is good. Yeah, it's better than average and 15th. But it's not in the top 1/3rd. It may be good enough for selling tickets in a one-team town, but it sure isn't what I'd call 'good'.

    I agree he's probably a "bit better than average". Is that really what the Blazers should be shooting for?...a little better than average?

    I'd also say you have to put an asterisk at that 'bit better than average' claim. He was gifted Damian Lillard and Dame is the reason Portland is not in the purgatory of low lottery picks. And I give Olshey lots of demerits for coasting off Dame's talent, and doing a poor job of building a contender around Dame. Dame's prime is burning away and that's covering Olshey's fence-straddling ass

    well then yeah, I see why you're advocating for Olshey. Basically content with a bit above average and fearful of taking risks.
     
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  11. kjironman1

    kjironman1 Well-Known Member

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    Sad but very true. Nurks next injury might only be a few games from when he starts playing again.
     
  12. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    I don't necessarily but let's go with your scenario. How would that have changed had we traded Whiteside for scraps? Let's take the Batum trade and a 1st round pick that would likely have been lottery protected at minimum. How would that have changed things? Adding a player in the buyout market would be a short term fix as the player would be an unrestricted free agent at the end of the year. Next, let's say we didn't trade Skal, but he couldn't play this year. Sure he would have been a restricted free agent, but if Nurkic and Collins both come back fine, Skal's usefullness would have been much less needed and money spent might be better used somewhere else. 10 mil in cap space, or the full mle plus the TPE from the Bazemore trade are 2 nice pieces to fill in for depth along with the growth of Simons, Trent and Little. I guess I don;t see it as dark and gloomy as you do and not sure how it changes much with trading Whiteside and retaining Skal.
     
  13. kjironman1

    kjironman1 Well-Known Member

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    This is not "My scenario" at all.
    All i'm saying is i understand why some are not happy with this and why it is not a good situation for the Blazers.
     
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  14. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    well, I was looking for more of an explanation why you think we are stuck for 2-3 years more and what would have changed that if we traded Whiteside? We pretty much saw what the market was for a center with the Drummond trade.
     
  15. kjironman1

    kjironman1 Well-Known Member

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    It's pretty obvious there will be little ability to make any real changes this summer or even this next year. Lets hope this group can compete. a lot of variables have to go right to make that happen. Some are not happy about those issues.
     
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  16. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    but you keep ignoring my question as to how that would have changed by off loading Whiteside and/or retaining Skal?
     
  17. TorturedBlazerFan

    TorturedBlazerFan Well-Known Member

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    Interesting question for you, Ive been thinking about this. What do you believe is a good way to stack up teams and rank them by like how good were they in the last decade (the amount of time doesnt matter just multiple seasons), I remember some Team power ranking stat ELO(?), would an aggregation of those for every team averaged out and ranked do it?
    I think its an interesting conversation just thinking about the last Decade, Miami won some championships, have some bad years, GS started mediocre and became a Juggernaut. Do we count championships, purely go off of overall record? Seems like a lot of ways to go about it.
    In that sense the Blazers have been all over the place with bad years and good years and a few “average” years.
    Do we go purely off of stats or let our eye test get weighted in?
     
  18. kjironman1

    kjironman1 Well-Known Member

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    I responded to hoops. I understand his frustration.
    You moved in on the conversation with this-
    I agree with you here. But i still understand what hoopsjock is saying.

    Then you try to make an imaginative "Scenario" i never had-
    I don't have a "Scenario"
    But you continue-
    Here it is-
    Again i understand why people are upset.

    Lets put it as clearly as possible. I don't care one way or another. I understand why some are upset. I'm going to hope they pull this together and this team can compete.

    If you continue to ask these questions i will continue to tell you i don't care. Simple.
     
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  19. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Franco, c'mon man don't trivialize my post.

    Olshey said part of the reason for the trade was because they needed healthy bodies. So I think okay if they sign someone to the roster spot that's actually healthy that makes sense!

    But then he says they will not be signing anyone to that spot and that the trade was to save money which would be undone by a signing.

    Obvious lies!

    How does trading Skal for nothing give us more healthy bodies if we aren't using that roster spot?
     
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  20. CupWizier

    CupWizier Well-Known Member

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    Ok, i was merely asking for explanation why we are essentially capped at being able to improve the team. Nothing more and nothing less. We can just move on if you don't want to explain. :cheers:
     

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