I was underwhelmed by this 'workout' footage. IIRC the report last summer was that Travis was working on his game like crazy. I think it showed during the season. Early in his career he did say when he went back home for the summer after the long NBA season he liked to go fishing. Who doesn't? IIRC he has pretty much always come into camp with less than stellar 'wind' but it seems he's been coming in better conditioned the last two years. He still can't pass Nate's test, though. How much of that is a better workout regimine in the off-season and how much is better asthma treatment, I obviously can't speculate. Like Story said though, the reports about Travis working hard on his game are always about how he's working on his shot or his moves -- individual offensive stuff. Not much about running, or wind sprints, or conditioning, or working in the weight room, or working with a defensive coach. We know Travis can score. We know he's working on being able to score in more ways. That footage didn't look like a 'workout' to me.
wrong! http://mikebarrettsblog.blogspot.com/2006/09/training-camp-roster-changes.html His asthma is set off by environmental allergens, so I'm sure he has good and bad days depending on the state of the air that particular day. I'm well aware that he has struggled with passing Nate's test, but discounting the affects of having the bronchi constricted limiting the ability to breath seems silly even for a confessed Outlaw hater like yourself. Given that sort of impediment, he's having to be in better shape then the other players to pass the same test. Nate's been so troubled by TO's struggles with his test and overall fitness level that he's increased his minutes every single season. btw, bumping around I found this nice recent Travis read... http://trailblazerscentercourt.blogspot.com/2009/04/no-more-doubt-from-outlaw.html STOMP
You're right, it was only in 2005, 2007 and 2008 that he failed. He passed in 2006. You're telling me that it's environmental allergens, constricted bronchii...fine. My contention was that the idea that Travis is lazy in the offseason comes from the reporting I linked to above. Where it says, among other things, that in 2005 he failed 4 times in a row. In 2007, he had to have closed-door meetings with Nate about his conditioning. Also from 2007: He didn't mention that his bronchii were constricted, and that once the allergens went away he'd be ok. He said he didn't want to hurt himself getting into basketball condition in the offseason and wanted to use preseason games to do so. Last year: It's great that he kept the conditioning up after failing last year. It's great that he was able to play himself into shape. I don't understand where the constricted bronchii come in or environmental allergens come in. If he says he's scared of exerting himself b/c of his childhood emergencies, I believe him. But he didn't say "man, the pollen in the air here makes it so difficult for me to breathe." He said he didn't want to hurt himself conditioning in the summer. His coach says that his conditioning is something he always has to work on--not that on certain days his lungs seize up and he can't run. Once he started doing his cardio, he was fine and kept it up. Nate's been increasing his minutes, true. Then why does he have a test? Let's ask him. So he kept working at his conditioning, even after the "punishment" phase was over, and Nate rewarded him. The test was in place as a marker for people to stay in shape over the summer. Travis obviously wasn't doing that, for whatever reason. Maybe he will come in this summer having worked on conditioning as well as spin moves and floaters.
and you're wrong... not only about Travis not passing 3 years in a row, but as my link conveyed, about him being the only one who didn't pass with the "many players fail it several times before earning a passing grade" comment obviously STOMP
And just as obviously, either do Nate, Travis, or any of the journalists who reported on this. Odd that Travis apologists are the only ones bringing up environmental allergens and constricted bronchii, while Travis just says he doesn't work on conditioning until he shows up in preseason, and Nate says that he always needs help with conditioning.
And the "he's the only one" was in reference to multiple years where he didn't pass. And he's never been (at least, not reported) injured, as Roy, Oden, Raef, etc. were for earning their "punishment".
So that I know what we're arguing about, are you saying that Travis busts his ass as hard in the offseason as everyone else, just that his asthma makes him the only one called out by Nate in the media multiple years for lack of conditioning?
Why does this Asthma issue only manifest itself at the very beginning of training camp? I understand the fall is the worst season for people with Asthma, but it's not exclusive to the fall.
Players and coaches often keep health maladies in house leaving journalists out in the cold on knowing whats what. exhibit 1A Shawn Respert Whats to be gained by involving the press? It's as odd as finding a Travis hater/Martell apologist discounting a real known health malady so as to blast Travis. This ridiculousness is something I've come to expect from some here... I find it amusing. Did you ever hear Greg complain about his inflamed tonsils before they were taken out? Afterwords he revealed that he'd had very real issues breathing for years but yet he didn't make a public peep about them prior. Had anyone here heard about Greg's ongoing breathing issues prior to Portland drafting him? Why do athletes wear those breathe right strips? Jerry Rice didn't get an endorsement for using them but he wanted to tap into as much air as possible just like thousands of other athletes who now wear them. Just my guess that however legit, if Travis were to publicly point to it, some haters (like guess who?) would then be saying he's just making excuses. Unfortunately he can't have a surgery done to make his condition vanish. But as long as his coach knows whats what and that it won't impede him in the regular season, and has confidence to continue to give him bigger and bigger roles, what does it matter what some out of the loop fan thinks? The Oregon pollen season ends prior to the start of the season and TO hasn't had issues staying healthy for games and hasn't had weight issues (like Martell), so why should I care? As far as I can tell dude's overall conditioning has been fine for getting him ready for the grind of the NBA season. I don't have asthma but I understand it can be a pretty big deal... heck, it kills thousands of US citizens every year. Travis's asthma has been described as severe which is enough for me to think it's probably a real issue for him when it gets bad. In your world that seems to be nothing that can't be trained through. To each their own I guess... STOMP
we need to do a minute-by-minute breakdown of this video and base our entire season of complaining about Outlaw on it!
I fear I've reached the O'Reilly/Olbermann point where my posts about Travis aren't even considered relevant to some. The crazy thing is, I haven't "blasted Travis" a single time in this thread. I pointed out to you why the "laziness in the offseason" thought was even out there, myth or not. I asked you what we're arguing about, and didn't get an answer. And to be honest, your guess about me isn't correct...if Nate, or KP, or Jay Jensen, or Bobby Medina came out and said "I've been working with Travis all summer" or "Travis came into camp in great shape and had a bad asthma day" or "I'm not worried about Travis' offseason conditioning--he's fine, and has bad days due to his condition" then I'd believe it and move on to something else. "In my world" has nothing to do with it, since it's his world we're discussing. I'm biased in that I don't get to talk to his brother, or see him in practice, and only get to hear what's reported. I've said more than once that most of the negative things I think about Travis and his game aren't because of floor stuff, though that's always there. It's his view of his game, as quoted by the press. Maybe they're making stuff up, and maybe he's joking sometimes, but that's the basis for a lot of the negativity you see about the man. What I still think is odd is that you haven't answered the question yet...do you think he's been working on his conditioning even as hard as the average Blazer in the offseason? My contention is "no", and it's backed up by his quotes in the press, Nate's quotes in the press, closed-door meetings reported by the press, his performance over 3 of the past 4 years in early-camp conditioning, and columns/blog posts of beat writers and team employees. Never once did they say "Travis was in good shape, but his asthma was acting up so he failed." As I said, that would completely satisfy me as far as Travis' conditioning was concerned. As far as Webster goes, I have read things like "Martell came into camp in the best shape I've ever seen him" and "He's worked extremely hard this summer" and "He's breaking conditioning test records". So I don't think at all about his conditioning. This isn't an "is Travis a good player or not" thread. This isn't a "will he help the team" thread. It's a "travis outlaw working out" thread, in which more posters than just my hate-riddled self have questioned whether or not conditioning is a big enough part of his workout regimen during the summer. Just about all the evidence points to "no", and instead of attributing that to something Travis can control (like laziness, or too many other things going on during the summer, or not wanting to hurt himself, or not knowing how to set up a program or whatever) you're trying to tell the board...what, exactly? That he's in great shape coming into camp, really he is, and we need to stop drinking the Hatorade and get behind the guy?
I just think it's odd that you dedicate so many thousands of negative words toward a bench player who has been a productive member of the team and a class guy for the organization. It's amusingly perplexing. I just assume that anything you post about Travis will show him in the absolute worst possible light. It's almost like you are angry at him, for some reason, and that people pointing out that he has severe asthma should not be relevant in addressing your very biased criticisms of him. Calling him "lazy" is subjective and silly, and no one is excusing Outaw other than to bring facts (like his asthma) into your very negative criticisms. Who cares if he passes the intial test? He stays healthy, and for a bench player on a low dollar contract, he adds value to the team. Frankly, your obsession with Outlaw seems unhealthy and unnecessary.
yup, this is one of those reap what you sew deals. It's not me making excuses for him (as you allege) when I point out the basic characteristics of the serious condition he has, it's listing facts he undoubtedly deals with every fall. Travis has asthma which reportedly flares up in the Oregon fall. That means his breathing ability is compromised for camp. No question about it. Activities that require elevated breathing (like a series of sprints) are not going to go well. Do any research on asthma and terms like constricted bronchi and inflamation of the lungs/airways are described in detail starting the first paragraph. Read a little more and you'll come to the causes of asthma attacks... typically environmental allergens it's funny that you're complaining about me not answering your questions as I pretty much already have, while you've left so many of mine tabled. As I've stated, I'm not an in the know poster... I don't have any access to watch guys work out or really much context as to what is a normal amount. Years of following the team have left me aware that the coverage/look we get into the lives of the players is very incomplete with a good portion of what we do get focused on pot stirring. I am well aware Quick is prone to irrational man crushes on some and conversely snide/jilted BS directed towards others... as near as I can tell this is based mostly on who he thinks is a good interview. Sure I read reports about guys working out with trainers or being involved in high level pickup games, but I don't really know the details on how long and often this takes place. I don't know what closed door meetings with Nate are about... for all I know it's Nate telling him not to get bummed out about his asthma hampering him since they both know that the problem is only temporary. Heck, Travis Twitters on his workouts have been relayed here several times this summer. But that doesn't fill me in on if he's eating healthy or deep fried food, or if he's getting his rest or a fixture at the club. So as a not in the know poster who is fully aware of how limited and distorted the little insight I have is, I'm not kidding myself by pretending I know how one guy's workouts compare to another's. I am aware when a player repeatedly comes into camp fat though and which guys always seem to be lean, focused, and game ready. Warts and all, Travis has played 82 and 81 games the last two seasons while logging the biggest minutes of his career. Hoops is a rough game thats very hard on the body. From my poor vantage it seems he's doing something right or at least enjoying an extended run of good luck avoiding the injury bug. what are we arguing about? You responded to my contention that it's a myth that Travis doesn't work out in the offseason. Just my speculation here, but I find it unfathomable that he doesn't now or any offseason since he came into the league. STOMP
Not exclusive, but according to the one report I read thats when he suffers the most... of course he spends a good portion of the summer out of state. The particular allergen(s) that sets off an asthma attack varies on the individual. I'll speculate that once the rains start, the air is cleansed and Travis's issues subside. STOMP
Addressed below. I didn't. Not once in this thread. Go_time did, STOMP said it was a myth, I said it's from reporting, and this whole thing started, ending up where we are now So, before this becomes an all-out attack on me, instead of the basis of the thread, I'll recap the facts... Post 21 was the first time anyone (its_go_time) brought up negativity about Travis. STOMP responded with and This was the first point of contention I felt the need to opine about on the thread. As I ended up showing later, it's not a matter of me "not being in the know" (which is correct, btw...I'm not), it's a matter of what's been reported. All I said was It turns out that I didn't recall correctly, since it's actually been 3 of the past 4 years that he's failed, not the last 3 years. And he's the only multiple failure that's been reported. Then, after a remark about how I can't understand how asthma affects breathing, I responded with Which I hoped cleared up the misunderstanding about what I said about asthma. I then asked the question about why he can pass tests after doing team conditioning, but not showing up that way (or, as NateBishop pointed out, show up early with teammates?). PapaG then chimes in with a pollen report and and ohno smiley and says the first derogatory thing on the thread, that Travis is Then STOMP calls me out for the wrong info, that he'd failed 3 out of 4 years instead of three in the row cheers, and brings up that I'm silly for discounting something that not a single reporter, player or coach in four years has attributed as the problem. I then quoted extensively in post 43 to ensure that it wasn't my opinion that I was stating, but facts and reporting and Travis's own words! But that's still not good enough, b/c I get a sarcastic "obviously". So, to summarize, the only point I've been trying to make this entire thread is that the "myth speculated on by those not in the know" (STOMP, post 21) is not a "myth". It's based on reporting, on Travis', Nate's, and KP's own words and the reports of Barrett, Quick, Freeman and others. I haven't "blasted Travis" a single time in this entire thread. Try post 51 again. And as a response, I get "you reap what you sow" and that I "dedicate thousands of negative words" on a great guy and team player. It's probably just a sign of my innate stubbornness that I'll write a post like this. But I felt some need to figure out what got two posters I generally like reading to dump all over me personally for asking a question and posting actual reports, not things like You ARE making excuses...excuses that Travis, Nate, KP, his teammates and the reporters haven't. I'm not even saying you're wrong. I'm saying that the original point from post 21...that (due to laziness or not) Travis has not, in the past 4 years, consistently showed that he works out in the summer enough to pass Nate's initial conditioning test--is not a myth. You said that's a myth, I showed (to the best of my ability) that it wasn't a myth, it was what the team and the Oregonian have been reporting for 4 years. I've stayed away from putting in my commentary, what I think he does or why he does it. I haven't said we should dump him or bench him or anything. I refuted that his reported "laziness" was an unsubstantiated myth....and I get that to two people who disagree with me I'm alternately "obsessing unhealthily and unnecessarily" and "showing him in the worst possible light". And to STOMP, I'm happy to answer any questions. I didn't see any that I missed. We agree that I wasn't talking about any roles, or contracts, or anything else...other than when you said his "laziness" (as stated by GO time) was a myth speculated on by people in the know. That's what I was trying to refute. To PapaG, I don't care that he doesn't pass the initial test. I don't think I posted on it last year, and I probably won't this year if it happens again. What I've been responding to is the contention that it's a myth from people not in the know that he's lazy in the offseason. BTW: this says peak season in the Willamette Valley is June. I guess that means that we need to ship him off before the Finals run, huh? And just for my own curiosity, are there any other topics you'll automatically blow me off if I discuss, and say that I'm heaping thousands of negative words?
Wow Brian. I'm sure I'll read this all at one point. Until then, my point about your obsession with Outlaw remains, and I know A LOT about asthma in the PDX area, your Google search about allergies in June aside. I think that you don't have a clue what you are talking about, but I enjoy your digging in deeper. I am personal friends with Travis' asthma specialist. I've gone to the Blazer practice facility with Travis when he puts on clinics for kids with asthma. You don't know what you're talking about, Brian. For real.
I will say this, in the entire time I spent covering the team, which was three seasons and starting when Travis was a rookie, I never saw him exhibit any kind of asthmatic symptoms or conditions. I was around him on the court and I was around him off the court. That's not to say he doesn't have them, but this is the first I've heard of Travis having any kind of condition.
I first read about his issue when he was drafted, and have read several articles since. Here is the first one google spat out... it was a JQuick one so I feel dirty. http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindblazersbeat/2008/10/conditioning_test_la_martell_s.html STOMP
man, this far in to your novel of a post and there are two glaring inaccuracies in your recounting of the "facts"... no way am I going to wade through the whole thing. Whats especially annoying is that I've already pointed both of these things out. the myth I confronted was that Travis didn't work out at all in the offseason. The words used by it's_GO_time were"Isn't Travis notorious for not working out in the off season..." and later speculated... "I remember stories about Travis cat fishing all summer and taking it easy". and of course in the link I provided, while MBarrett doesn't name names, he claims that..."Each season during training camp, Nate McMillan demands that his players pass a conditioning test, that involves timed, full-court sprints. It is not easy, and many players fail it several times before earning a passing grade." you can claim you're recapping facts, but that would be untrue too btw... here's the first hit from google when you punch in asthma. Read it and not only will you notice quite a few of the things I've already pointed out, but consistent references to exercise setting off asthma attacks. Guess what happens when you combine several of an asthma sufferer's triggers? STOMP
Seriously? Travis puts on at least one clinic a year for kids with asthma at the practice facility. I find it hard to believe that someone who covered the team was in the dark about the severerity of Travis' asthma.
