Even this is magnified because of his egregious tunnel vision and penchant for dribbling so much on these possessions. The stats are startling. He doesn't ISO nearly as much as people think he does. https://stats.nba.com/players/isolation/?sort=POSS&dir=1&CF=TEAM_ABBREVIATION*E*por He isolates only 3 possessions per game, which is 14th in the league, and gets 0.83 points per possession this year (which is terrible). About the same as he was in the playoffs last year. To put this in perspective, Harden isolates on 14 possessions per game, albeit at better efficiency. It's not that bad. He needs to cut that down or make more passes after isolating, but the MeJ thing is sort of a misnomer. Even getting fouled more here would increase his efficiency to a very respectable level.
Some more perspective on iso stats, guys with comparable frequency and PPP as CJ on isos: Siakam-- 4 possessions, 0.91 ppp Giannis-- 4 possessions, 0.88 ppp Randle-- 3 possessions, 0.75 ppp CJ -- 3 possessions, 0.83 pp Lavine-- 3 possessions, 0.89 ppp LeVert-- 2.6 possessions, 0.67 ppp Hood- 1.1 possessions, 1.42 ppp (insane, leads the league in this) Dame- 4.9 possessions, 1.1 ppp Melo- 2.1 possessions, 0.74 ppp Ant- 1.1 possessions, 1.02 ppp Trent- 0.4 possessions, 0.94 pp Melo is the one that needs to stop.
this might go to my biggest complaint about CJ, and it's actually more a criticism of the offense and coaching. The role CJ plays is not a good fit for his strengths and flaws as you said, CJ is excellent in catch-n-shoot possessions. He leads the team with a 70% eFG and if my math is right, that mark puts him around the 95th percentile in the league. And he's in the 86th percentile is spot-up possessions, same as Dame. (Trent is in the 96th percentile). Those are two types of possessions where CJ's teammates are essentially creating offense for him. He's nearly elite at those types of plays on the other hand, he's in the 69th percentile in PnR ball-handler; the 46th percentile in hand-off; and the 44th percentile in isolation In other words, CJ is worse than average when he dribbles into his shots, and nearly elite when he doesn't. Yet he dribbles like crazy and has a 36% assisted FG rate when it should be 66% or higher. Some of that is on CJ, but a bigger share is on the coaches who don't structure his game to his strangths; and some of it is on the GM who refuses to add better facilitators to the roster that would be more able to find CJ in shooting position
I use those play/possession numbers quite a bit; they have utility and are interesting I'm pretty skeptical about how they define play types though. I think there's a lot of overlap between isolation, PnR ball-handler, hand-off, and off-screen. I think that's especially true between iso and PnR. I suspect if a pick happens anytime when a player gets the ball, it's probably classified as PnR even if the player dribbles a dozen times, changes direction three times, then puts up a shot. By my definition of iso, CJ does it a lot more than 3 times a game. Ive watched Milwaukee several times and I'm damn sure Giannis goes iso more than 4 times a game. I think for a lot of those play types, there's a lot of distinction-without-a-difference going on
I would love to see what CJ's stats would look like if he played the role Trent is playing right now. I'm not saying it would make the team that much better or worse, it would just be nice to be able to compare what is actually the best use of his skill set. There are for sure times when an iso-scorer like CJ or Melo is a great weapon to have. In my opinion, when someone who is a great shot creator (which CJ is) but uses that ability to get his own shot a majority of the time (which CJ also does) it limits the benefits of having that shot creator. When Dame, LeBron, etc. are creating shots you never know if they are doing so to score themselves or to get a teammate open. A truly elite shot creator uses that skill to make plays and draw the defense whether that is for him to score or to get a teammate an open look. CJ constantly draws at least 2 defenders when he gets to the mid-range. The ironic thing is that if he did pass more out of those situations, not only would it lead to the obvious better ball movement but it would also make the defender hesitate just a second when CJ does drive which would give him slightly more open looks. Trent's role is perfect with Dame right now. A low usage sniper. Who knows if he'll keep it up, I have no reason to believe that this isn't sustainable but it could just be a hot stretch. I'm fine with Trent not passing much as long as his usage rate stays down. CJ has way too low of an AST% for his usage rate though. So either his AST% needs to go up or his usage rate needs to go down in order to maximize his fit next to Dame. There is certainly times where they need to turn CJ loose and get buckets and that is fine! In the 2nd quarter of game 34 in the regular season (or whatever) isn't really the ideal time for that. This is also why I feel like it would be interesting to see what a playmaking backup PG would do for this team which would allow CJ to stick to the same role whether he was in with the starters or playing with the 2nd unit. The thing is with how bad our bench has been this year we need both Trent and CJ to be good. So I'm not choosing one over the other. I hope they both play well.
2018-19 Hollinger NBA Player Statistics - Shooting Guards Season: Select Year2019-20 Regular Season2018-19 Regular Season2017-18 Regular Season2016-17 Regular Season2015-16 Regular Season2014-15 Regular Season2013-14 Regular Season2012-13 Regular Season2011-12 Regular Season2010-11 Regular Season2009-10 Regular Season2008-09 Regular Season2007-08 Regular Season2006-07 Regular Season2005-06 Regular Season2004-05 Regular Season2003-04 Regular Season2002-03 Regular Season2018-19 Postseason2017-18 Postseason2016-17 Postseason2015-16 Postseason2014-15 Postseason2013-14 Postseason2012-13 Postseason2011-12 Postseason2010-11 Postseason2009-10 Postseason2008-09 Postseason League: NBA | East | West Position: All | PG | SG | SF | PF | C | Rookies | International Qualified* | All Players Team Statistics » Hollinger Playoff Stats - Player Efficiency Rating - Qualified Shooting Guards RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA 1 James Harden, HOU 11 38.5 .567 16.9 11.8 36.1 2.5 17.0 10.0 25.31 90.5 3.0 2 Caris LeVert, BKN 5 28.8 .612 13.5 9.0 26.0 4.0 13.2 8.2 23.22 27.3 0.9 3 Lou Williams, LAC 6 29.3 .533 24.7 9.7 33.4 3.6 7.4 5.4 21.25 28.2 0.9 4 Paul George, OKC 5 40.8 .583 11.1 13.0 28.6 3.1 20.0 11.4 18.60 24.7 0.8 5 CJ McCollum, POR 16 39.7 .527 12.7 6.5 27.1 2.3 11.0 6.7 17.96 70.7 2.4 6 Tyreke Evans, IND 4 21.0 .563 4.8 9.5 29.9 0.0 24.4 11.0 17.73 0.0 0.0 7 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, LAC 6 28.8 .596 20.5 5.4 17.5 2.4 8.2 5.2 16.60 14.5 0.5 8 Jerome Robinson, LAC 5 9.2 .556 28.9 4.1 16.1 4.6 10.3 7.3 15.69 3.6 0.1 9 Andre Iguodala, GS 21 30.0 .565 29.0 7.3 14.6 5.1 11.4 8.3 15.29 45.0 1.5 10 Klay Thompson, GS 21 39.0 .575 9.6 8.3 20.9 1.7 10.1 6.0 14.60 50.1 1.7 RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA 11 Luke Kennard, DET 4 33.3 .604 11.7 5.0 16.0 0.0 14.0 6.0 14.00 6.9 0.2 12 Gary Harris, DEN 14 36.9 .569 14.7 5.1 16.0 1.8 10.1 5.9 13.60 23.9 0.8 13 Pat Connaughton, MIL 15 21.6 .578 19.0 8.1 11.7 3.2 24.8 14.4 13.57 14.9 0.5 14 Jaylen Brown, BOS 9 30.4 .624 7.9 12.7 17.1 2.3 16.4 9.7 13.00 10.2 0.3 15 Eric Gordon, HOU 11 37.3 .604 6.9 13.3 19.0 1.4 6.1 3.8 12.76 13.8 0.5 16 Norman Powell, TOR 23 15.9 .558 15.1 7.0 17.2 1.5 13.9 7.7 12.27 9.6 0.3 17 Malik Beasley, DEN 14 20.1 .530 11.0 5.5 17.7 4.0 14.1 9.0 12.12 6.8 0.2 18 Bryn Forbes, SA 7 30.3 .625 10.0 4.3 13.1 0.5 12.1 6.4 11.62 3.5 0.1 19 D'Angelo Russell, BKN 5 29.6 .446 12.8 9.9 32.3 1.3 12.1 6.3 11.60 1.3 0.0 20 Terrence Ross, ORL 5 29.2 .537 8.9 12.7 20.7 0.7 13.7 6.7 11.28 1.7 0.1 RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA 21 Sterling Brown, MIL 11 14.7 .525 27.2 11.5 13.8 2.6 15.5 9.3 10.67 0.4 0.0 22 Fred VanVleet, TOR 24 24.7 .534 23.6 8.0 15.2 1.3 6.2 3.7 10.40 -5.3 -0.2 23 Shaun Livingston, GS 22 14.6 .517 24.8 6.4 12.9 4.0 6.9 5.5 10.09 -4.4 -0.1 24 Darren Collison, IND 4 29.3 .504 21.7 13.6 22.1 3.4 8.3 5.6 9.99 -1.8 -0.1 25 Joe Ingles, UTAH 5 30.2 .432 35.7 11.4 13.9 2.0 15.2 8.3 9.62 -2.0 -0.1 26 Evan Turner, POR 16 15.3 .409 34.8 12.9 12.8 5.6 25.6 15.6 8.99 -5.5 -0.2 27 JJ Redick, PHI 12 31.3 .606 10.9 12.7 16.9 0.6 4.4 2.6 8.95 -8.7 -0.3 28 Marco Belinelli, SA 7 18.7 .504 15.8 3.9 14.7 0.0 10.6 5.3 8.80 -3.3 -0.1 29 Seth Curry, POR 16 20.4 .518 12.2 6.6 12.2 1.6 6.5 4.1 8.37 -10.4 -0.3 30 Danny Green, TOR 24 28.5 .503 12.0 12.0 11.9 2.7 11.3 7.0 7.72 -28.4 -0.9 RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA 31 Gerald Green, HOU 11 8.8 .462 2.2 6.5 18.8 0.0 13.5 7.0 7.23 -4.7 -0.2 32 Donovan Mitchell, UTAH 5 38.6 .423 9.8 12.8 31.3 3.7 10.2 6.8 6.83 -10.6 -0.4 33 Langston Galloway, DET 4 27.5 .456 10.0 5.0 13.1 1.6 13.8 6.9 6.78 -6.1 -0.2 34 Landry Shamet, LAC 6 29.0 .542 16.8 11.8 11.5 0.6 7.5 3.8 6.39 -12.0 -0.4 35 Wayne Ellington, DET 4 32.8 .432 11.7 4.7 11.7 2.0 10.7 5.8 5.73 -9.3 -0.3 36 Garrett Temple, LAC 6 10.5 .455 10.3 10.3 10.9 1.7 11.3 6.2 5.31 -4.9 -0.2 37 Evan Fournier, ORL 5 35.0 .427 10.6 12.7 20.6 1.7 8.7 5.0 5.08 -14.2 -0.5 38 Iman Shumpert, HOU 8 13.6 .522 6.1 9.2 11.6 1.1 11.0 6.2 5.00 -8.9 -0.3 39 Bruce Brown, DET 4 14.3 .437 10.6 10.6 11.9 1.6 14.3 7.1 4.65 -5.0 -0.2 40 Raymond Felton, OKC 5 11.4 .396 15.9 10.6 11.5 0.0 5.8 2.9 4.22 -5.3 -0.2 RK PLAYER GP MPG TS% AST TO USG ORR DRR REBR PER VA EWA 41 Wesley Matthews, IND 4 29.8 .447 16.9 16.9 14.5 0.0 10.1 4.6 3.59 -12.3 -0.4 42 Treveon Graham, BKN 5 15.8 .277 16.1 16.1 7.8 2.4 11.3 6.5 0.74 -11.5 -0.4 Glossary Players on pace to play 500 or more minutes *To qualify: a player must have played 6.09 MPG. TS%: True Shooting Percentage - what a player's shooting percentage would be if we accounted for free throws and 3-pointers. True Shooting Percentage = Total points / [(FGA + (0.44 x FTA)] AST: Assist Ratio - the percentage of a player's possessions that ends in an assist. Assist Ratio = (Assists x 100) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44) + Assists + Turnovers] TO: Turnover Ratio - the percentage of a player's possessions that end in a turnover. Turnover Ratio = (Turnover x 100) divided by [(FGA + (FTA x 0.44) + Assists + Turnovers] USG: Usage Rate - the number of possessions a player uses per 40 minutes. Usage Rate = {[FGA + (FT Att. x 0.44) + (Ast x 0.33) + TO] x 40 x League Pace} divided by (Minutes x Team Pace) ORR: Offensive rebound rate DRR: Defensive rebound rate REBR: Rebound Rate - the percentage of missed shots that a player rebounds. Rebound Rate = (100 x (Rebounds x Team Minutes)) divided by [Player Minutes x (Team Rebounds + Opponent Rebounds)] PER: Player Efficiency Rating is the overall rating of a player's per-minute statistical production. The league average is 15.00 every season. VA: Value Added - the estimated number of points a player adds to a team’s season total above what a 'replacement player' (for instance, the 12th man on the roster) would produce. Value Added = ([Minutes * (PER - PRL)] / 67). PRL (Position Replacement Level) = 11.5 for power forwards, 11.0 for point guards, 10.6 for centers, 10.5 for shooting guards and small forwards EWA: Estimated Wins Added - Value Added divided by 30, giving the estimated number of wins a player adds to a team’s season total above what a 'replacement player' would produce. Player Efficiency Rating (PER) League average: 15.0 What is PER? » How Do Projections Work? » Every team these days need a gun slinger!
There used to be a site tracking assists, with data on who the assist was made to. Does anyone remember what this site was? Completely spacing on it at the moment. I recall seeing numbers that showed most of Dame's assists were to Nurk, and vice versa. I wonder how much missing Nurk this year is affecting CJ's catch and shoot attempts this season.
Trent playing well now but offer starting 2 guard to him quite yet. If he continue the rest the season and to next trading deadline then I would look him us starter.
I had no idea that Meyers Leonard changed his a CJ is the new MyLe. There always has to be one on the roster...
last year, in catch & shoot, CJ scored 4.0 pts on 57% eFG; this year it's 4.9 pts on 70% eFG as far as the assisted by stats, I googled and couldn't find anything....operator error probably. They said on the Blazer broadcast a game or so ago that Dame-to-Whiteside was 2nd in the league in number of assists
I'm not sure if you noticed but earlier in the thread I posted some spot-up shooting numbers. Both Dame and CJ are in the 86th percentile in spot-up shooting scoring 1.19 points/possession. That's pretty damn good. Well, Trent is in the 96th percentile scoring 1.29 points/possession. That's elite, but of course, we need to see if he cools down (likely) and if teams scout him and adjust defense (guaranteed)
If teams haven’t adjusted their defense by now, they probably won’t, and we can thank Dame for that. It shouldn’t have taken teams this long to recognize Trents ability to shoot.
nope....but the two baskets he did make were those turn-around-fade-away-post-ups. That will be a weapon for him if he can make that shot consistently. There are enough small guards in the league he should be able to post-up a lot
