Trump Calls for Complete Shutdown of Muslims Entering U.S.

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by KingSpeed, Dec 7, 2015.

  1. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    30,704
    Likes Received:
    6,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think you can cleanly dismiss the religious component; there's definitely something there compelling some people to take a hard-line interpretation of the Hadith and the Qua-ran. But Islamism is definitely more of a reaction against the failed military states that rose up in the wake of the second World War, than it is any kind of pure expression of Islam. As always, it's insanely complicated and layered.
     
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
  3. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    24,208
    Likes Received:
    30,349
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Oregon City, OR
    Interesting question and I didn't know the answer so I did a little investigating:

    "The largest Muslim population in a country is in Indonesia, a nation home to 12.7% of the world's Muslims."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country


    Roughly 88% of the population is Muslim. While traditionally Indonesia has promoted tolerance of other religions, things have changed in recent years. Aceh province is the most conservative area of the country and has adopted sharia law, including floggings, stoning of adulterers & homosexuals. There is increasing violence towards Christians and those of other faiths:
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...lares-in-indonesia-as-mob-torches-aceh-church

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-indonesia-aceh-violence-idUKKCN0SD0GI20151019

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/22/opinion/no-model-for-muslim-democracy.html?_r=0

    From what little I've read, it seems that Indonesia is pretty much a microcosm of the larger Muslim world. While a large majority of Muslims simply want to live in peace, the hardliners are becoming more aggressive about asserting intolerance of those of other faiths and are increasingly resorting to violence towards them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
    Nikolokolus likes this.
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Indonesia

    Upon independence there was significant controversy surrounding the role of Islam in politics; this caused enormous tensions. Eventually, "Indonesia adopted a civil code instead of an Islamic one".[12]

    In the New Order years (Suharto's presidency), there was an intensification of religious belief amongst Muslims.[15] Under the Suharto regime, all Islamic parties were forced to unite under one government-supervised Islamic party, the Partai Persatuan Pembangunan (Party for Unity and Development or PPP).[7] With Suharto's resignation in 1998, "the structure that repressed religion and society collapsed".[7]
     
  5. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    24,208
    Likes Received:
    30,349
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Oregon City, OR
  6. julius

    julius Living on the air in Cincinnati... Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    45,134
    Likes Received:
    33,903
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Sales Manager
    Location:
    Cincinnati
    Carter "banning" Iranians from here is not the same as banning (or closing the door to) Muslims.

    One was (is) a nation, the other is a religion of over a billion.
     
  7. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    24,208
    Likes Received:
    30,349
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Oregon City, OR
    Trump's "genius" is saying things so outrageous that the media lose their collective mind and go ape-shit giving him free press. Never mind that nearly everything he proposes is unconstitutional on its face and could never be implemented. He loves the attention and his 30% of Republicans who support him eat up the crap he feeds them, but his chances of being elected are zilch because 80 percent of the people in the country would never vote for the buffoon. His ultimate achievement will probably be handing the election to Hillary on a silver platter.
     
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
  9. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    24,208
    Likes Received:
    30,349
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Oregon City, OR
    Islam is a religion. As with most other human constructs, it can be used for peaceful or violent purposes. Unfortunately for the world at large, and regardless of whether the large majority of its adherents are peaceful, the cancer of a small minority is intent on using its interpretation of Islam in a violent manner to push its agenda of jihad and establishment of a global caliphate. Stating that Islam is a religion of peace has zero impact in resolving the violence of that minority.
     
  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Mocking it as a "religion of peace" by christians is ignorant and intolerant.

    In spite of the violent acts here in the USA, the damage (aside from 9/11) don't compare to what white mostly christian people do (tens of thousands of violent crimes and murders a year).
     
  11. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    24,208
    Likes Received:
    30,349
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Oregon City, OR
    I wasn't mocking it, and I'm pretty sure that most Christians don't do that either. I was simply looking for some information on the question you posed. Your second paragraph is a total non sequitur.
     
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    I see christians mock Islam as a religion of peace all the time. It's been done in this thread, even.

    The second paragraph is extremely important information to consider. Some are suggesting Muslims are somehow more violent than anyone else. They're clearly not.
     
  13. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    125,199
    Likes Received:
    145,429
    Trophy Points:
    115
    Native Americans call for ban on Christians entering the US

    Native Americans have controversially called for a complete ban on Christians of any denomination entering the US until representatives can ‘figure out what the hell is going on.’

    “Seriously, you guys have screwed this place up,” said Chief Simon with Williams

    “Two world wars, I don’t know how many ‘minor conflicts,’ mass-shootings, Adam Sandler, toy dogs, the Star Wars prequels. Ryan Adams covering Taylor Swift, McDonalds; I mean, all this is bad enough but now you unleash Donald Trump on us?”

    “I’m sorry, it’s extreme but we have to say enough is enough.”

    http://newsthump.com/2015/12/09/native-americans-call-for-ban-on-christians-entering-the-us/
     
    Further and Nikolokolus like this.
  14. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    24,208
    Likes Received:
    30,349
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Oregon City, OR
    Both of those statements are likely true, but had nothing to do with what I was posting about. From what I have read, it looks to me like Indonesia is a pretty good overall microcosm of what the case is with Islam at large. By far the majority of Muslims there are peaceful and tolerant towards those of different religions. That said, there is a small portion of the population that espouses the radical view of Islam and that is intolerant and, at times, violent towards non-Muslims. The problem for the world is that the small minority is intent on using violence to promote greater intolerance between religions so that there will be the jihad that they believe will result in the ultimate triumph of their cause.
     
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    There is a portion of the christian population that spews hate. Would you tar the rest of the christians with the same brush as westboro baptist church? Goose, gander.

    I don't believe the violence in the middle east is predicated on religion much at all. Like I said, it's secular and ethnic. ISIS wouldn't be around if Obama didn't surrender in Iraq and give the Shi'ia leadership a wink and a nod to crack down on Sunnis. Those Sunnis joined with ISIS to regain their power because there was no other viable alternative. Those same Sunnis joined with the US led coalition during the surge to fight ISIS.

    The act of Muslims bombing Muslim mosques is about terrorizing the civilians into submission, not about using those mosques for religious purposes (e.g. houses of worship).
     
  16. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    125,199
    Likes Received:
    145,429
    Trophy Points:
    115
  17. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    125,199
    Likes Received:
    145,429
    Trophy Points:
    115
    A Texas town stands divided, after armed men in camouflage menace worshipers at a local mosque

    Anti-Islamic sentiment is on bold display in Irving, Texas.

    So is support for freedom of religion.

    Protesters dressed in camouflage and armed with loaded rifles have been demonstrating in front of the city's largest mosque. Others are coming out to back the Muslims who practice their faith at the Islamic Center of Irving.

    Avi Selk, a staff writer for The Dallas Morning News, says the dueling protests have polarized what was a "fairly normal suburb."

    "They were arguing about things like whether to build a concert hall, but were suddenly transformed into a sort of stage where people are holding rallies and making public statements, a stage for people from outside the city to come and kind of act out their parts in this controversy over Islam," Selk says.

    The city is a cosmopolitan Dallas suburb. One third of its residents are foreign born.

    Selk says the mosque attracts some first-generation immigrants, and the vast majority of the Muslims he's met there are professionals.

    "They're generally techies. They're Microsoft employees, they're very very well educated," he says. "One of the first Irving, Muslim grassroots activists I met had worked on the particle super-accelerator that they were building in Texas."

    Selk says the armed protesters aren't Irving residents.

    "They're all from cities in the general area," he says. "Some of them are convinced that there's going to be, you know, a violent confrontation with American Muslims. If you've seen images from that protest, you'll see a man with a long-barrelled gun and camo gear walking down the sidewalk behind a woman in a headdress on her way to worship."

    Last week, a group associated with the Ku Klux Klan, the Texas Rebel Knights, announced they also want to demonstrate at the Irving mosque.

    That's concerned many residents, who seem to just want the controversy to go away.

    "There's a lot of people who have affection for their city, and they don't like to see it in all these international news stories labeled by some as the hotbed of Islamaphobia," Selk says.

    http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-12-...-armed-men-camouflage-menace-worshipers-local
     
  18. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Messages:
    30,704
    Likes Received:
    6,198
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Christianity - "Religion of Peace"
     
    SlyPokerDog likes this.
  19. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    94,040
    Likes Received:
    57,185
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Christianity is directly responsible for me getting all kinds of presents, candy, and paid time off.

    What did Islam ever do for me? Nothin!
     
    Nikolokolus likes this.
  20. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    125,199
    Likes Received:
    145,429
    Trophy Points:
    115
    They invented algebra.
     

Share This Page