Politics Trump’s support for background check bill shows gun politics ‘shifting rapidly’

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by SlyPokerDog, Feb 19, 2018.

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  1. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    Wait, are we talking undocumented immigrants here or felons?

    I believe felons should not have their voting rights stripped.
     
    dviss1, Feb 21, 2018
    #301
  2. SportsAndWhine

    SportsAndWhine Dumbass For Hire

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    I suppose it has to be interpreted this way given the capitalist system the government operates in; it's cruel and heartless but at least it's not hypocritical.
     
    SportsAndWhine, Feb 21, 2018
    #302
  3. SportsAndWhine

    SportsAndWhine Dumbass For Hire

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    *ding ding ding* Exactly. Basic income, universal healthcare. Any aspect of citizen life that involves the right to life should not be handled by a system designed to ignore the health and wellbeing of the citizenry.
     
    SportsAndWhine, Feb 21, 2018
    #303
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    You don't have a natural right to someone else's labor.

    That's where these ideas fail.
     
    Denny Crane, Feb 21, 2018
    #304
  5. SportsAndWhine

    SportsAndWhine Dumbass For Hire

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    Governmental systems are opt-in; technically even capitalism is opt-in. If you don't like it you can leave. It's in the EULA that we'll all be sharing income.
     
    SportsAndWhine, Feb 21, 2018
    #305
  6. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Let see, Dumbass for hire.

    Now what do you do with one of those? Does it have a right to life, even when no one hires it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
    MarAzul, Feb 21, 2018
    #306
  7. UncleCliffy'sDaddy

    UncleCliffy'sDaddy We're all Bozos on this bus.

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    Then, by YOUR “twisty logic”, “a well regulated militia” is also exactly one of those terms. Sounds pretty specific to me. You’ll throw anything against the wall if it means “winning” a debate......
     
    UncleCliffy'sDaddy, Feb 21, 2018
    #307
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  8. Further

    Further Guy

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    Well I’m not interested personally in banning all guns, I’m interested in restricting how, when and who can access and use firearms and with which safeguards. Just like I’m not interested in banning cars, or banning alcohol but I am interested in regulating how, when and who can drive and drink and te combination.
     
    Further, Feb 21, 2018
    #308
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  9. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    :biglaugh:
     
    dviss1, Feb 21, 2018
    #309
  10. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    I have ask several people now to make their suggestion as to an amendment that they think would serve their needs and would pass through the process.
    No one to date has done so.

    Why do you thing this is so?
     
    MarAzul, Feb 21, 2018
    #310
  11. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    If they wanted it only to be for militias, they would have said so explicitly. What they wrote was one of many reasons, not the exclusive reason. That is how the courts have historically ruled, how lawmakers have made laws, etc.

    I do not ignore the centuries of history on the subject, the common law, that guns were never outlawed or denied anyone in the United States for 200+ years. If the founders intended gun rights restricted, they would have done it when the first standing army was raised (pretty much right away).

    So yeah, I call it "twisty logic" when you ignore the part that says "the right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed." For no reason.
     
    Denny Crane, Feb 21, 2018
    #311
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  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    You can make laws about driving and drinking or otherwise regulate it, but it doesn't prevent people from driving and drinking.

    That's where this line of thinking fails me.
     
    Denny Crane, Feb 21, 2018
    #312
  13. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    Regulation and prevention are two completely different things. Please stop conflating the two.
     
    dviss1, Feb 21, 2018
    #313
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    We live in a supposedly free society. Why subject ourselves to elimination of our liberty (without due process) at all? Especially if prevention isn't the successful outcome?

    All you end up with is less liberty. That's not a gain, but a loss.
     
    Denny Crane, Feb 21, 2018
    #314
  15. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    My guess would be that the issue is so polarizing that it's nearly impossible to come up with an alteration that would carry the 2/3 majority necessary for an amendment.
     
    PtldPlatypus, Feb 21, 2018
    #315
  16. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    I'm curious--are you also opposed to drivers licensing?
     
    PtldPlatypus, Feb 21, 2018
    #316
  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Driving isn't a right enumerated in the constitution.
     
    Denny Crane, Feb 21, 2018
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  18. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Of course not. Are you suggesting that liberty only includes those rights enumerated in the constitution? As you may recall, that was one of Madison's primary concerns with the inclusion of the Bill of Rights.

    Still, you didn't answer the question.
     
    PtldPlatypus, Feb 21, 2018
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  19. UncleCliffy'sDaddy

    UncleCliffy'sDaddy We're all Bozos on this bus.

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    The start of that sentence is, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. So I’m not the one ignoring the obvious, YOU are. You take a piece of a much longer sentence (with obvious implications) and run with that as proof positive that it supports your narrative. I can’t help but feel that the sheer terror and hostility these gun enthusiasts are exhibiting over a much needed debate is pretty much solid evidence that deep down they know their positions are no longer valid in today’s world and are therefore insupportable and untenable......and it gets even more obvious with every mass shooting. I don’t give two shits how the courts have ruled in the past. I DO care about how the courts rule in the present and in the future.
     
    UncleCliffy'sDaddy, Feb 21, 2018
    #319
  20. Further

    Further Guy

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    I don’t think an amendment is needed. Just look at Justice Scalia’s words.
     
    Further, Feb 21, 2018
    #320
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