Ugly numbers

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Rastapopoulos, Apr 23, 2017.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Who's better on defense at PG: CJ or Dame?
     
  2. BlazerCaravan

    BlazerCaravan Hug a Bigot... to Death

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    PG has more mileage but is Dame's age (only two months older).
     
  3. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

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    If forced to choose, I guess it would be CJ but that is like choosing between rotten tuna fish and an outhouse as to which odor you prefer to smell.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
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  4. BlazerCaravan

    BlazerCaravan Hug a Bigot... to Death

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    CJ is less horrible, but CJ at PG is a misnomer because he's not doing PG activities like passing.
     
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  5. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes the best decision is to say no... Who cares if the cap space was use it or loose it? That shouldn't factor into the decision making. The decision should be "Is paying X player $Y per year a good investment?" No other factors ought to be in play.

    If we didn't have Crabbe or Meyers (the two contracts I'm was most upset with), then we wouldn't have to be looking at ADDING assets just to move them off the team.
     
  6. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    upload_2017-4-25_9-36-45.png

    CJ

    That's 20% of all the team's minutes at PG, not 20% of his minutes played.

    The -111 net pts is a testament to how awful the 2nd unit is.
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    For all the talk of CJ's defense, his PER against is actually pretty good.

    upload_2017-4-25_9-38-41.png

    13.0

    Compared to Lillard's 16.4, it's terrific.

    upload_2017-4-25_9-39-15.png
     
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    If over the cap, you cannot simply add assets. You have to use exceptions.

    So the players we've have would be worse than Crabbe or Meyers - guys who aren't worth even decent sized contracts.
     
  9. BlazerCaravan

    BlazerCaravan Hug a Bigot... to Death

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    Again, I don't dispute that he's being classified as a PG in the second unit lineup, but he's not acting like one out there.
     
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  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Dame's ~6 assists per game aren't gaudy for a PG either.

    You get those kind of numbers simply by handling the ball so much.
     
  11. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    If you really look at that chart, it indicates that Lillard is a better defender of PG's (16.4 vs 16.5 for CJ) and of SG (12.6 vs 13.0 for CJ).
     
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Dame played 2% of the team's total minutes at SG.

    Likely when it was advantageous to hide him on SGs who aren't good.
     
  13. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    I'm saying that Portland is going to have to include an asset (pick) to be able to dump their contracts.
    I would argue that Pat would have contributed to just as many wins as Crabbe (if given the opportunity), at 1/20th of the cost.
    I know it's impossible to prove one way or another, but Pat's advanced metrics are all equal or favorable to Crabbes (except for turnovers):
    upload_2017-4-25_11-23-31.png
     
  14. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Does it matter? CJ is probably the biggest ball-hog tunnel vision player that we've had in a long time. He's a really good player, but he's extremely score-first. He's simply not a point guard. Not even a little bit. If you put CJ at PG, you better have someone else who can handle the ball and distribute in the starting lineup.
     
  15. BlazerCaravan

    BlazerCaravan Hug a Bigot... to Death

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    Exactly; I love CJ to bits, but he's there to score on fools, not distribute to fools. We need a Greg Anthony. Get a vet point guard (not a good third stringer like Napier) who can be our 6/7th man. Get a vet center who can be out 6/7th man. Our defensive-minded wings (ET and Aminu) will improve just by having a roll to play that's solid and focused. CJ should always play to his strengths: breaking ankles and taking spot up threes.
     
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  16. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    I just can't take Denny seriously about point guard play after he told me that John Stockton wasn't a pass-first point guard.
     
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  17. BlazerCaravan

    BlazerCaravan Hug a Bigot... to Death

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    :lol:

    Getting a distributor backup PG would make as much difference to the bench as Nurkic made to the starting lineup. I guarantee it. Imagine a good 5 assist per night backup PG. He can pass to ET in the post, or you run screens to get CJ open, or Crabbe and Aminu in the corners. A vet center on the roll would make the bench a true bench mob again. We have good bones on our team, but no connective tissue. A vet PG and a vet C would put us over the hump, into "HCA in the first round" territory.
     
  18. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Would your co-worker trade Gobert for Lillard? Gobert is likely their franchise player and I don't think most Jazz fans would do that trade.
     

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