Politics Ukraine / Russia

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Hoopguru, Jan 20, 2022.

  1. GriLtCheeZ

    GriLtCheeZ "Well, I'm not lookin' for trouble."

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    Like when the US did lend lease for the Soviets?
     
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  2. Road Ratt

    Road Ratt King of my own little world

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    Biden Wants $33 Billion More For the War in Ukraine. Which Americans Benefit?

     
  3. jonnyboy

    jonnyboy Well-Known Member

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    Aww poor politicians and their contractor buddies will be forced to make billions while the rest of us pay for it. A burden indeed.
     
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  4. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    Lot's of complaints, some of them valid, but a serious lack of constructive, realistic alternatives.
     
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  5. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Downed Russian fighter jets are being found with basic GPS 'taped to the dashboards,' UK defense minister says
    • Russia is taping basic GPS devices to its fighter jets' dashboards, the UK's defense minister said.
    • Ben Wallace said this was due to "the poor quality" of Russia's own navigation systems.
    • Russia's military hardware, much of which appears outdated, is being tested as the invasion drags on.


    Wrecked Russian fighter jets are being found with rudimentary GPS receivers "taped to the dashboards" in Ukraine because their inbuilt navigation systems are so bad, the UK's defense secretary, Ben Wallace, said.

    Speaking at the National Army Museum in London Monday, Wallace commemorated those who died in World War II and called Russia's invasion of Ukraine "senseless and self-defeating."

    He added that there was evidence suggesting Russian military hardware was being pushed to breaking point by the invasion of Ukraine.

    "'GPS' receivers have been found taped to the dashboards of downed Russian Su-34s so the pilots knew where they were, due to the poor quality of their own systems," he said.

    "The result is that whilst Russia have large amounts of artillery and armor that they like parading, they are unable to leverage them for combined arms maneuver and just resort to mass indiscriminate barrages," he added.

    The Su-34 was first manufactured in the Soviet Union in the early 1990s but is still one of Russia's leading fighter jets.

    Ukraine has shared abundant evidence of what it says are Russia's attempts to patch over issues with old military equipment and bypass equipment shortages.

    Last month, Ukrainian troops paraded what they said was a Russian drone that had been covered in duct tape and fitted with a generic plastic bottle top for a fuel cap. In March, Ukrainian troops found what appeared to be Russian army bandages dating to 1978 discarded on a battlefield.

    In his Monday speech, Wallace said Russian vehicles "are frequently found with 1980s paper maps of Ukraine in them" and that soldiers were using "pine logs as makeshift protection on logistical trucks" and attaching "overhead 'cope cages' to their tanks."

    Russia held its annual Victory Day military parade in Moscow on Monday but canceled the air force flyby over what it said was bad weather.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/rus...-2022-5?utm_source=feedly&utm_medium=webfeeds
     
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  6. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    This is the largest refugee crisis in history. Of course it's expensive. Of course we should offer support.

    Sending people the means to defend their country from an aggressor is the the most moral move we've made possibly since running Sadam out of Kuwait.

    Also, this prevents Russia from gaining quick victory and pivoting to a NATO ally, which we would then be obligated to defend. Leading to direct conflict between US and Russian soldiers.

    Sure, there will be people getting rich, but that's how our politics works. It's not like that because we're helping Ukraine defend itself. It's like that because we refuse to fix our system.
     
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  7. Road Ratt

    Road Ratt King of my own little world

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    No. The moral argument only goes for humanitarian aid, not military aid. Our moral obligation is to make sure this war ends ASAP. Fighting a proxy war with Russia, by sending billions in military aid, is not a path towards peace.

    This is an assumption. One that I am simply not on board with. Why? Because it ties our hands into one option only: to feed the fire to prevent a supposed bigger fire. None of which I have seen evidence for.

    Yes, Corruption 101. But it obviously shouldn't be this way. And we should all be pushing to change our "politics as usual". Not, side... with it.



    I am not in support of Putin's actions, nor am I in support of America's actions. Defense contractor profiteering, and our governments mysterious inability to stop it, leaves me unable to believe our own government, on very little of anything at all.

    Stopping Putin in Ukraine literally won't stop anything. It will only prolong it. If Putin is truly crazy, and set on attacking a NATO country(ies) next, World War III has already begun and we should all bend over and kiss our pretty little butts goodbye. The logic that stopping Putin now is simply a fallacy (If his true intentions are to fight WWIII, that is).
     
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  8. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    I guess you would prefer leaving the damage and destruction to just sit there. I'm wondering where you work? Does the company you work for or own not make money? Where exactly does that money come from? Maybe the idea is to use money from the Russian Sanctions and Tariffs or Duty fees to pay for it?

    Or does everything have to be a dirty conspiracy to be real?
     
  9. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    I simply disagree. Ending the war as fast as possible would be allowing Putin to steamroll Ukraine and take it over.

    Not an option.

    Russia's demographics and lack of educated or skilled youth demand that it conquer nearly all of its neighbors or it will die. Russia has proven this is the way it sees things with the military actions it has taken over the past 20 years.

    Stopping Putin in Ukraine hastens Russia's demise and keeps the damage to Ukraine rather than the other countries Russia would have to target next to maintain control of their population.

    Putin doesn't want to just attack a NATO country. He wants to take small chunks as police actions that will not cause a big problem until he controls enough that it's no longer worth an international incident.

    Farmers do this all the time. I know a farmer who has added acres to dozens of parcels this way. Then he sues for ownership. Everybody knows what he's doing, but in the end it costs too much claw it back. So they let it go.

    I'm all aboard with ending the corruption, but not with a "starve the beast" strategy. We have to keep government working, and starving the beast simply encourages more corruption.
     
  10. jonnyboy

    jonnyboy Well-Known Member

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    Oh you still think we’re out saving the world, funny.
     
  11. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    Again no answer. Again a snarky comeback that just proves you don’t have the ability to comprehend the issues.
    Thanks for clarifying.
     
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  12. jonnyboy

    jonnyboy Well-Known Member

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    We could be involved in a conflict every 5 years and you’d probably still beat your chest over it every time.
    Oh wait, we are. And you do.
     
  13. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    Still waiting for a viable alternative.......:bored:
     
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  14. Road Ratt

    Road Ratt King of my own little world

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    But if Putin is hell bent on taking more than Ukraine, while America is pushing to bog Russia down in a prolonged war so as to deplete Russia's resources. This leaves no option for a peaceful way out. This logic that we see two people in a knife fight and therefore must send them guns and missiles, is insane logic, in my opinion. It only leads us down the path to further conflict.

    Like I said before. If Putin is truly crazy, we are already in WWIII, and nothing that we do now, short of taking him out ourselves, or through his inner circle somehow, is going to stop anything that is about to happen next.

    Alright, I think we have come to an impasse. I'll leave it here. Take it easy.
     
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  15. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    But I'm not claiming Putin is crazy. He's being very logical based on his county's economic and demographic situation. The problem is that he's built such a corrupt system that it's falling apart and he cannot actually execute their logical next steps if Ukraine can fight back.

    The US helping Ukraine kills Russia's current corrupt system faster, hopefully making them less of a problem on the world stage sooner.
     
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  16. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    This situation reminds me a bit of Japan in the late 1930s.

    They needed more resources. The Army favored attacking north into Manchuria, Mongolia, and Siberia. The Navy advocated a southern attack, seizing territory from Holland, Britain, and the US. For various reasons, the Navy prevailed. The quest for resources was logical. The attack on Pearl Harbor was logical, based on their warped views of anglo civilizations. It was also an irrational act of national suicide. Rational goals wedded to irrational hubris in methods.

    Sound familiar?
     
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  17. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    So if we continue to arm Ukraine they're going to eventually attack Hawaii?
     
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  18. oldmangrouch

    oldmangrouch persona non grata

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    When and if they attack a NATO nation, a sneak attack on the US is almost a given. IMHO, our best chance is to bleed them so bad in Ukraine they take Putler out and replace him with somebody willing to actually negotiate.
     
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  19. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    He doesn’t have one. He only has contempt for anyone and anything that might make a difference.
     
  20. jonnyboy

    jonnyboy Well-Known Member

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    What difference? We’ve been doing the same script with the same actors for 70 years and only caused more problems everywhere we’ve gone. Where’s the big difference? All the shit we’re giving to Ukraine will probably just fall into hands of they next boogeyman we decide is our enemy in ten years.
     
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