Politics Ukraine / Russia

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Hoopguru, Jan 20, 2022.

  1. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    That was to show you what a large percentage of the population of that region voted for the president that was ousted by the coup, which is what sparked the civil war. That is why I asked you if you are so certain that resentment is just "russian propaganda".

    And yes, I know that the US is polorized. How do you think the people in Portland would feel if a military coup ousted Biden and put Trump in power?
     
  2. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    Are you even aware that Wikipedia is user generated and can be easily edited?...anytime you use Wikipedia you need to verify it with other sources/outlets.


    Screenshot 2023-08-04 at 1.45.30 PM.png
     
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  3. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    If some fraction of, say, Vermont residents thought that Vermont should be independent from the US, would that justify Canada invading and annexing Vermont?

    barfo
     
  4. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    I'm surprised Big Maple Syrup hasn't made this happen already.
     
  5. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    and everyone knows how fair Russian elections are...the main opposition usually gets thrown out of a window or poisoned in prison but yeah, let's check Putin's propoganda media machine and call it democratic process eh? Invading a sovereign nation has nothing to do with civil war or American partisan squabbling. NATO proves your theory completely wrong and facing Putin's bullshit invasion, has only become stronger and larger...I hope Ukraine wipes Putin off the map...why wouldn't you? Where do you vote? I know Serbia was very pro Russian...are you Serbian?
     
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  6. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    There was no military coup in Ukraine, so your analogy is fatally flawed.

    Instead, how about:

    How do you think the people in Portland would feel if nationwide protests led to Biden fleeing to Canada?

    I think they'd feel pretty damn surprised!

    barfo
     
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  7. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    There is no "Antfa". It is literally just an ideology the some people ascribe to. Some people can claim they are antifa, and act however they want, but if they aren't supporting the ideals of opposing fascism then they aren't acting as antifa.

    Anybody that committing acts of (or in support of) fascism is not antifa, by definition. Very simple.
     
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  8. jonnyboy

    jonnyboy Well-Known Member

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    If the United States was bombing Vermonters there might be an argument there.
     
  9. jonnyboy

    jonnyboy Well-Known Member

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    While this type of attack is directly from the establishment media propaganda playbook. “You love Putin” is such a tired trope.
     
  10. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    So, does that mean that any USA states that voted for Trump should be allowed to secede? BTW, those figures would be a lot different today. Almost all Ukrainians absolutely hate russia and would not think of voting for a pro-russian candidate. Also there was a nationwide election after what you call a "coup" (again parroting Putin) and the pro-russian candidate lost badly.
     
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  11. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    Just thought I would throw in a little historical note. How did the east of Ukraine come to be populated by so many russian sympathizers? In the 1930's Stalin intentionally starved to death a large part of the population in a recognized genocide known as Holodomor. Then he repopulated the area with people from russia who stole the land and homes of the dead. Almost all russian populations in former soviet union countries were placed there by Stalin as part of policy to control those countries. It is an ongoing problem for many of those countries.
     
  12. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    I've asked before, but predictably, did not get a coherent answer...exactly where do you get your "playbook" from?

    And make no mistake about it, Putin does have a KGB inspired playbook of his own.
     
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  13. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    AM talk radio is my guess.
     
  14. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Russia's planting mines everywhere, even cruelly hiding explosives in everyday items like fridges, toys, and children's books, Ukrainian military engineers say


    • Russian soldiers who previously occupied Ukrainian territory left it littered with land mines.
    • Ukrainian military engineers told Insider that Russia also set deadly booby traps in people's homes.
    • Moscow's troops hid explosives in every items like toys, fridges, and even children's books.

    Ukraine has been battling Russia's invasion for more than 17 months, but it's held it's own and even managed to liberate massive swaths of land that it lost early in the fighting. By some Western estimates, around 50 percent of what was initially seized has already been reclaimed by Kyiv's troops.

    But expelling the Russians from towns, cities, and rural areas doesn't mean eliminating the threat altogether. Occupying soldiers have left behind a deadly and vicious problem for Ukraine — one that will cause it headaches for years and years to come: the widespread deployment of land mines and traps.

    Russia has practically mined everything, Ukrainian military engineers told Insider in a recent interview. And they often do so for no obvious tactical advantage. For instance, they cruelly hide explosives in everyday household items like refrigerators, toys, and even children's books. The goal is simply to inflict as much damage as possible.

    Mines are, of course, also a huge problem on the front lines. During the months leading up to the ongoing Ukrainian counteroffensive, Russia built layers of elaborate defenses, with one of those fortifications being sprawling minefields along the front in the eastern and southern regions. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley said last month that this the biggest problem for Ukraine to solve, and the leading cause of casualties among Kyiv's troops.

    Between Russia's current defensive lines and the mines left behind from earlier phases of the war, Ukraine has effectively become the most mined country in the world — with some officials suggesting that over 40 percent of the country's territory may be contaminated. It could take centuries to clean up all the explosives at a cost of tens of billions of dollars. Some observers have even suggested it may never be completely demined.

    Removing these mines is a painstaking and deadly process, often carried out by sappers, combat engineers tasked with everything from building bridges to clearing minefields.

    One of these individuals is Oleksandr, who leads a small team of young sappers engaged in humanitarian demining efforts around Kyiv and other regions in northern Ukraine. This area had been under Russian occupation during the early weeks and months of the war, but even after it was liberated, it was left riddled with mines, unexploded ordnance, and booby traps.

    Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy warned in April 2022 that Russian soldiers retreating in the north at the time had left mines everywhere, creating a "complete disaster."

    "They are mining the whole territory. They are mining homes, mining equipment, even the bodies of people who were killed," he said in an address to the nation. "There are a lot of trip wires, a lot of other dangers."

    'As much damage as they can'
    Oleksandr, whose last name is intentionally being withheld for security reasons, joined Ukraine's State Special Transport Service, a unit under the command of the country's defense ministry, last fall and only had a few months of training before he started demining activities earlier this year — a quick turnaround given the scale of the problem.

    Humanitarian demining means clearing explosives from areas where active combat has ceased — like areas in northern Ukraine — so that the local population can sooner return to their normal lives, or as close to normal as possible under the circumstances. This includes demining of critical transportation infrastructure, like railways, bridges, highways, and roads, and even nuclear facilities.

    Speaking through a translator, Oleksandr detailed to Insider how his team carries out demining and the life-threatening challenges of his job.

    The demining process begins with the sappers talking to locals to understand the extent of the contamination and if they're dealing with Russian land mines or unexploded artillery shells.

    Once the sappers have this information, they move to a more technical step, which is flying drones to map unexploded ordnance on the surface. After this, the sappers start manually clearing the area with metal detectors and other equipment. Oleksandr said the crucial element in this process is to not be in a hurry and always be mindful of what's happening.

    Mines come in all different shapes, sizes, and lethality. Some explosives are placed in the ground and are designed to be triggered by armored vehicles or infantry soldiers, either by a pressure plate or trip wire, while others can be deployed from a distance through aircraft or artillery and may detonate without actually being touched.

    One particularly deadly Russian mining tactic in northern Ukraine was the use of booby traps by Moscow's troops.

    First Lieutenant Maksym Trykur, who serves in the State Special Transport Service and translated Oleksandr's comments, told Insider that Russia would plant these around everyday items, including toys, furniture, kitchen utensils, and plates. In some cases, refrigerators were rigged to blow when opened. Oleksandr also witnessed the Russians place explosives in children's books.

    "It doesn't provide any tactical advantage," Trykur said. "That's just trying to cause as much damage as they can."

    Oleksandr returned from his latest mission just under two weeks ago, where he was helping to clear the area around a railroad bridge so it was safe for civilian construction workers to rebuild parts that were destroyed during active combat. This type of work underscores why the extensive mining is such a big challenge.

    Mining prevents the community from resuming their lives long after active combat is over, Trykur said. Mines in a field might detonate with children playing near them, and explosives left on the road could pose a supply or logistics issue, delaying stuff like medication, food, and postal service deliveries.

    But the issue has global implications as well, he added. Ukraine, often referred to as Europe's breadbasket, is a crucial supplier of grain to the rest of the world, including countries in Africa and the Middle East. Mine contamination threatens the ability for farmers to actually grow their food, threatening to create a far-reaching crises.

    It's a problem that will stay with Ukraine for years because Russia has contaminated the country on such a massive scale, Oleksandr said. And Kyiv's sappers also lack some of the equipment necessary to be able to tackle such an immense problem, meaning they are more reliant on physical manpower.

    Much of the support Ukraine is receiving is focused on front-line combat. The US has provided upwards of $43 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since the start of Russia's full-scale invasion last year, including mine-clearing equipment and mine-resistant armored vehicles. But more is needed both on the lines and behind them.

    Milley, the top US general, said last month in the context of Ukraine's counteroffensive that the country's Western military backers still need to provide more support to help get rid of these death traps.

    "So the key thing is to focus on air defense, focus on the blocking-and-tackling sort of offensive combined arms maneuver, which is artillery, as both long-range and short-range artillery, and then get in your engineers and your mine-breaching equipment," he said. "That's the kind of stuff they need. That's what they want. That's what they're asking for."

    https://www.businessinsider.com/rus...-fridges-toys-books-military-engineers-2023-8
     
  15. jonnyboy

    jonnyboy Well-Known Member

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    Nah, the neocon boomers that haunt America’s forgotten airwaves are staunch supporters of the military industrial complex. Hannity would feel quite at home in this thread.
     
  16. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    Can this war realistically end within another year or will it continue through the rest of the decade?
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2023
  17. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    Another historical note:
    @DarthPutinKGB

    OTD in 1940, USSR formally annexed Latvia. Soviets troops had been "invited in" (in accordance with absolutely nothing to do with our treaty with Nazis) & then held "elections" where 99.6% voted to join USSR. None of this should sound familiar to you.
     
  18. UKRAINEFAN

    UKRAINEFAN Well-Known Member

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    More from our friend Darth
    @DarthPutinKGB

    Day 528 of my 3 day war. It turns out the grain deal I pulled out of protected Russian shipping as well as Ukrainian so I’m again losing ships to a country without a navy. I remain a master strategist.
     
  19. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    Good grief, this is beyond reaching. Did you see that this data is sourced? That data came from Ukraine's own election commission.
     
  20. beast blazer

    beast blazer Well-Known Member

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    No, you people keep missing the point (intentionally I think). I'm not sure how more plainly I can state it. It's nonsensical to assert that the anger of the people in eastern Ukraine at the coup in 2014 was simply "russian propaganda" when they voted for that candidate 90%.

    You think the US is polarized, but what states voted 90% for one candidate? They were obviously passionate about him and I think we all know the anger that would be aroused by the other side if such a thing happened in the US. Couple that with the fact that the Ukrainian military has been shelling the region there's a civil war going on which further increases the tension. Saying it's all Russian propaganda is BS.
     
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