Politics Under Sanders, income and jobs would soar, economist says

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by dviss1, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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  2. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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  3. JFizzleRaider

    JFizzleRaider Sad Panda Global Moderator

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    I used some income thing on one of his websites showing you that you'd get to keep more of your money. And mine came back as owing 2,000 more per year
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    http://www.realclearpolicy.com/blog/2016/02/11/single-payer_sacrifice_116_million_jobs_1551.html

    The Single-Payer Sacrifice: 11.6 Million Jobs

    Democratic candidate Bernie Sanders recently released his health-care plan: a government-run single-payer system for the U.S., similar to what many European countries have. Criticism of the plan has so far focused on its lack of political feasibility, but there is an even more important reason to be wary: Accounting for costs and tax increases, it would reduce labor supply by 11.6 million. In a struggling economy, with tepid wage growth, hurting employment should be the last thing on any politician’s agenda.

    The plan truly promises everything under the sun. Not only will everyone be able to get any medical treatment needed — with no cost at the point of service — but the plan won’t require a terribly high tax increase. The funding mechanism boils down to an increase in payroll taxes: an “income-based premium” of 2.2 percent for individuals and a tax of 6.2 percent on employers. Because economists, as well as the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation, recognize that the "employer share" of payroll taxes is mostly borne by workers in the form of lower wages, this translates to an 8.4 percentage point increase overall.

    These elements of the plan were the first to draw criticism. Not only do most single-payer countries fund their health-care systems with higher taxes on the middle class, but they also typically exclude a variety of services and drugs from coverage. Without being able to say no to some expensive drugs and services, the government would have a tough time driving down prices.

    But perhaps the most stinging rebuke came from veteran health economist Kenneth Thorpe of Emory University. In Thorpe’s estimation, Sanders’ plan would require a total tax hike of 20 percentage points, and would cost $1.1 trillion more each year than the campaign has estimated. This is at least partly because the government would have to pay more than Medicare’s low rates to keep doctors and hospitals in the system, and making health care free at the point of delivery would also increase use of health-care services

    ...

    When we take Thorpe’s more realistic assumptions and apply the same approach, the fully-implemented plan reduces employment by a whopping 11.6 million full-time equivalent workers. Under these assumptions, the average marginal tax rate would grow from around 22 percent to 42 percent, while the average total tax rate would increase from 11 percent to 31 percent. At the upper end of income, total tax rates would be far beyond 50 percent. And none of this factors in state and local taxes.

    Of course, some of drop in employment might be considered “voluntary.” Some would stop working because they no longer needed to be employed to receive health insurance — escaping "job lock," as House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi once put it. But others would simply find it meaningless to put in extra hours or look for more lucrative positions when so much of their earnings get sucked away as taxes.

    For employers, this would all mean a large increase in hiring costs, too. Sure, as Sanders’ campaign likes to remind us, employers would no longer pay for private health insurance. But economists also recognize that health insurance is a form of compensation. And if you cut health insurance (with or without raising taxes), wages must in turn go up.
     
  5. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    Meh... Op ed...
     
  6. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  7. blue32

    blue32 Who wants a mustache ride?

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    The fact that people want to voluntarily pay more fucking income tax is a god damn joke. Ha! lets throw more money at a bad fucking problem, THAT ALWAYS WORKS! Specially when its the Government!

    Christ..

    "
    small employers that currently do not offer insurance (390,000
    between 10 and 25 and 3.1 million under 10) would see substantial initial increases in
    taxes to finance the plan through the 6.2 percent payroll tax. This tax would be passed
    along to workers in the form of lower wages and other benefits."


    "We present results in table 2 showing the Sanders’
    financing plan. However we also do an analysis of the additional taxes needed to pay
    for the $1.1 trillion underfinancing. This would require an increase in the payroll tax
    from 6.2% to 14.3% and an increase in the income related premium from 2.2% to 5.7%
    -- a combined 20 percent tax on income."

    "
    Overall,
    over 70 percent of working privately insured households would pay more under a fully funded
    single payer plan than they do for health insurance today."



    You know what, people that want this guy to be in office should just start giving all of their checks to the Feds right now, and leave the rest of us alone.
     
  8. Further

    Further Guy

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    Holy crap that was moving. wow, I just feel compelled to add my voice to hers.
     
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  9. Further

    Further Guy

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    As far as the OT, one economist will say one thing and another will say something different. I don't know enough about economic modeling to elucidate any truths on the subject.
     
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  10. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE PRESIDENT WANG

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    So we're all getting $22,000 raises? Sweet!
     
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  11. Stevenson

    Stevenson Old School

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    Denny - You guys also tried the sky-is-falling routine with regard to jobs and Obamacare. Never materialized. Turns out Obamacare is no jobs killer. So excuse me if I don't buy the claim that single-payer will be the next great "jobs killer."
     
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  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  13. HailBlazers

    HailBlazers Ride the REmerge

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    AND IPAD PROS
     
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  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  15. OSUBlazerfan

    OSUBlazerfan Welcome!

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    All tax rates will go up AT least 2.2%. Yay!
     
  16. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    How much do you pay a month for health insurance? You wouldn't pay a bit more in taxes to make your entire premium go away?

    http://berniecare.org
     
  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Government lies

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_Act_of_1913

    The incomes of couples exceeding $4,000, as well as those of single persons earning $3,000 or more, were subject to a one percent federal tax.

    We were told income tax would be low and only on the wealthy.

    http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/the-income-tax-in-1913-a-way-to-soak-the-rich/

    Given those lies, why would we trust government now? I don't. You shouldn't.
     
  18. dviss1

    dviss1 Emcee Referee

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    The Blah blah big gubmint shtick is getting old and tired.
     
  19. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    You didn't address how it lies.

    You say Sanders' plan is going to save people money. I say government lies and any savings will go away and we'll have a really expensive albatross dragging us all down.

    We saw Obama lie about ObamaCare. "You can keep your doctor."

    I literally know a few hundred realtors who lost their insurance when the ACA kicked in. They're paying more and instead of $2000 deductible they have $10,000 deductible and a much more limited choice of hospitals and doctors to choose from than before.

    Government lies, dude.
     
  20. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    People lie Denny....including realtors..it's not some new revelation...Oregon is quickly filling up with Californians who can't afford to buy a 2 bedroom 1 bath house in their Californian hometowns for over half a million..when it comes to Insurance companies and hospitals the issue to me is and always has been a need for TORT reform...but something tells me it wouldn't trickle down and end in saving the consumer money in the end. Donald Trump lies and he's a realtor who's never worked for the gov't.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016

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