USA Today: Could we be wrong about global warming?

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Shooter, Jul 17, 2009.

Moderators: 6

Moderators

  1. BrianFromWA
  2. Chris Craig
  3. Darkwebs
  4. Ed O
  5. PtldPlatypus
  6. SlyPokerDog
Page 16 of 26
  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    So you'd rely on expert opinion about astrology. Damn anyone who's not an expert astrologer. Never mind that astronomers don't study astrology, but rather something else that's quite related. As related as geology is to climate "science."
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 30, 2009
    #301
  2. yakbladder

    yakbladder Grunt Third Class

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,534
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    King of Norway
    Location:
    Iceland
    Oh Denny - fixated on your astrologers again. But what can you expect from someone who so obviously worships Nancy Reagan? :wink:

    To answer your question, no an astronomer would not be a valid expert opinion on astrology. Sure, the astronomer studies the stars, but they don't have any insight into correlation between "future events" and stars. Just movements, measurements, and identification. To that particular slice of the pie they might be able to comment. And so a geologist might be able to address the level of CO2 in rocks, etc. but they wouldn't necessarily be able to equate what effects that CO2 has on the rest of the world - except maybe in terms of soil..maybe.

    Climate science is actually much more complicated and involves the study of weather and everything revolved around weather. Weather. Rocks. One has complex systems, analysis of several factors, the other is one OF the factors.

    But again, to barfo's point - do you have any information provided by an actual climate scientist with proof supporting your claim? Can you provide this article?
     
    yakbladder, Jul 30, 2009
    #302
  3. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    32,870
    Likes Received:
    291
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Tualatin, OR
    Good luck with that. India already told the US to take a flying leap, and imposing tariffs on China wouldn't be a good idea considering they are basically backing the US treasury at this point.
     
    PapaG, Jul 30, 2009
    #303
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal


    Is the World Ocean Warming? Upper-Ocean Temperature Trends: 1950–2000

    But hey, these guys are oceanographers publishing in some whacko journal called "Journal of Physical Oceanography"

    There's this, also, from Harris-Mann's longrangeweather.com site (Harris is a climatologist, Mann is a meteorologist):

    120-Year Climate Study

    (Supports what I said about asphalt in a previous post)
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2009
    Denny Crane, Jul 30, 2009
    #304
  5. yakbladder

    yakbladder Grunt Third Class

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,534
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    King of Norway
    Location:
    Iceland
    So if you removed man-made asphalt, the Earth's temperature would be cooler. Hrm..bizarre theory..almost sounds like man-made climate change. Thanks Denny!

    BTW, I think it's interesting to note that the new Sec. of Energy is looking at different road coverings that actually reflect rather than absorb heat. In order to reduce a city's heat generation.

     
    yakbladder, Jul 30, 2009
    #305
  6. mobes23

    mobes23 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,254
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Close to right -- both of those countries reacted against disincentives. Incentives could still work. What those might be, I have no idea.
     
    mobes23, Jul 30, 2009
    #306
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Earth's temperature IS cooler. If you measure temperatures over the asphalt, you get readings that spoil your overall data. Cooler by .4 degrees C.
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 30, 2009
    #307
  8. yakbladder

    yakbladder Grunt Third Class

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,534
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    King of Norway
    Location:
    Iceland
    But the overall temperature is warmer, because of man-made interference. So, again, the Earth could be a bazillion degrees cooler (I dare you to define bazillion), but since we've interfered the temperature has risen. Hence, man-made climate change.
     
    yakbladder, Jul 30, 2009
    #308
  9. hasoos

    hasoos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    9,418
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    48
    BS in what though? It's a type of a degree. It doesn't make you a scientist. People can get a BS in computer programming, but I wouldn't want them making scientific decisions.
     
    hasoos, Jul 30, 2009
    #309
  10. hasoos

    hasoos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    9,418
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Right, just like how we shit in our own back yard until the Love canal lit on fire. They will do it until it endangers their lives, and in those countries, they may even do it after.

    The best incentive of all is survival. It reaches down to the lowest level of human instinct and makes decisions very black and white.
     
    hasoos, Jul 30, 2009
    #310
  11. hasoos

    hasoos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    9,418
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    48
    What the US was the only one doing weather in that year? Is the rest of the world cavemen or something? People around the world have been doing weather for centuries. Get over it, the US isnt' some technological marvel that is the mythical land of the USA, the land where weather has been tracked longer than anywhere else.
     
    hasoos, Jul 30, 2009
    #311
  12. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    26,096
    Likes Received:
    9,073
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm interested in this. Off the cuff, my first thought is that "heat" can't really be reflected, can it? I mean, the heat storage of the road is based upon the solar energy it absorbs, which is both a function of the material property and the black-body effect of the asphalt. "reflection" of that solar energy means that that sunlight is going somewhere...like partially into the eyes of the drivers of those roads. And if there's an issue with greenhouse effect (I'm not qualified to parse the science among the warring factions) continuing b/c of pollution, etc...reflecting that energy back into the atmosphere will just increase atmospheric temperature, right? I mean, instead of the damping function of the asphalt absorbing the energy and storing it as heat (to be bled off during times of "cool" atmospheric temperature), it will reflect that energy back into the "greenhouse" and keep the atmospheric temperature higher all the time?

    That said, I'm all for novel science and engineering solutions, rather than politics and economics. To quote CS Lewis' Affectionate Uncle Screwtape:
     
    BrianFromWA, Jul 30, 2009
    #312
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Messages:
    72,978
    Likes Received:
    10,673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Never lost a case
    Location:
    Boston Legal
    Yeah, heat can be reflected, as is light.

    If you think about it, the sunlight reflected off of pure white snow is really bright.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ999LIWvJk
     
    Denny Crane, Jul 30, 2009
    #313
  14. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    32,870
    Likes Received:
    291
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Tualatin, OR
    The head of the IPCC is an economist. What could he possibly know about climate science! :)
     
    PapaG, Jul 30, 2009
    #314
  15. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,331
    Likes Received:
    25,355
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    Nice find, but no one is saying that an economist can't possibly know about climate science. Heck, a grade school dropout working at a truck stop could be an expert in the field. It just isn't very likely, that's all.
    What I've been arguing is that there is no reason to assume that an economist knows about climate science. If they prove they do, good for them. Apparently this guy has proved he does.

    barfo
     
    barfo, Jul 31, 2009
    #315
  16. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    32,870
    Likes Received:
    291
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Tualatin, OR
    The 38-year veteran physicist/economist at the EPA hasn't proven it, though. :devilwink:
     
    PapaG, Jul 31, 2009
    #316
  17. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    34,331
    Likes Received:
    25,355
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Blazer OT board
    Correct, he has not - at least not that I've seen evidence of. There is a difference between being the head of the IPCC, and writing an unsolicited report at taxpayer expense.

    barfo
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2009
    barfo, Jul 31, 2009
    #317
  18. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    32,870
    Likes Received:
    291
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Tualatin, OR
    What's the difference? They are both economists. You are the one who mocked the idea of economists being climate scientists, not me. Yet the head of the IPCC is an economist by trade.
     
    PapaG, Jul 31, 2009
    #318
  19. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    28,303
    Likes Received:
    5,884
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Merchant Banker
    Location:
    Denver, CO & Lake Oswego, OR
    PapaG, don't you get it? The only people barfo will recognize as "experts" are the ones that agree with him.
     
    maxiep, Jul 31, 2009
    #319
  20. rocketeer

    rocketeer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    3,250
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    38
    it definitely seems like you're only willing to consider people to be "experts" when they agree with your opinion.
     
    rocketeer, Jul 31, 2009
    #320
Page 16 of 26

Share This Page