<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 15 2008, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Magic won 50 games with zero PF and zero PG on the roster and Adonyl Foyle as the only backup big man. Tell me again about all the flaws in the roster and all the mistakes Oti Smith made, smart people.</div> It's the freaking East! And it just proves how great Howard is and how much better it is to create a team around a dominant bigman. Get a dominant big and surround him with shooters and good defense... it isn't rocket science. I can't believe you think it was just as easy for Thorn to build a championship team around Kidd as it is to build around Howard. Not that Smith hasn't done well. We all know there are other GMs that could have easily screwed it up (**cough McHale cough**). It's way too early to tell if they are actually going to compete for a championship and whether Lewis' contract will be an issue in the long term. I'm not liking Nelson's contract already, but he is still young so maybe there is still hope for him.
I think Vince Carter's salary is a bargain compared to what guys like Marbury, Francis and Finley used to get paid. Vince Carter provides more and gets paid less.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AGGiE @ Apr 15 2008, 11:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think Vince Carter's salary is a bargain compared to what guys like Marbury, Francis and Finley used to get paid. Vince Carter provides more and gets paid less.</div> That doesn't make it a good contract.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 15 2008, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 15 2008, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Magic won 50 games with zero PF and zero PG on the roster and Adonyl Foyle as the only backup big man. Tell me again about all the flaws in the roster and all the mistakes Oti Smith made, smart people.</div> It's the freaking East! </div> Remind me which conference the Nets are in again.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Apr 15 2008, 07:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rory @ Apr 15 2008, 05:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Joey FistPump @ Apr 15 2008, 12:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>There is a reason why there isn't much of a market for Vince Carter.</div> Please, don't stop there! There is a reason why no Vince Carter team has won 50 games in the regular season. There is a reason why no Vince Carter team has made it past the 2nd round of the playoffs. There is a reason why Vince Carter gets booed the most by his former team, 3 years and counting, than any other player in the league. But please, Vince supporters, keep telling me how important 20/5/5 is. </div> That shit's played out.Did Tmac ever pass the 1st round? Yall VC haters need to find something else 2 do. </div> the truth is the truth. Same way T-mac is still dealing with it. Same way Melo is dealing with it. KG was dealing with it too till he got to the conference finals. VC tired of people bringing it up??? Do something about it. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Remind me which conference the Nets are in again.</div> So true. The Nets have failed to take advantage of being in the east. The Wizards were able to make the playoffs with injuries in and out of their line up. Wait not only make the playoffs but the 5th spot. The Boston Celtics real big three in their first year not only improve their record but became the best team in the NBA. Lebron was able to lead his team to Finals. What have the Nets with Kidd Jefferson and Carter done??? Exactly. The Wizards lost Gilbert Jamison and Butler is hurt again all through out season and won't even mention Thomas. You hear no excuses from them. I'm serious as I said this team has always been one of excuses. Always saying why they should have won instead of saying how they should improved. The Sixers lost their franchise player last year and still made the playoffs. VC is going to be looked to lead this team and to be honest he doesn't have it in him to do it. History has proven it and we are seeing it now. As ghoti said it's not a knock on him but the position he is in. He needs to be the second or third best player on a team. Not the leader. He's not built for that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 16 2008, 02:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 15 2008, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 15 2008, 07:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Magic won 50 games with zero PF and zero PG on the roster and Adonyl Foyle as the only backup big man. Tell me again about all the flaws in the roster and all the mistakes Oti Smith made, smart people.</div> It's the freaking East! </div> Remind me which conference the Nets are in again. </div> This was about a team with a dominant low post big getting 50 wins in the East. That has nothing to do with the Nets.
This thread is about Carter's contract and Thorn's incompetence. So it has everything to do with the Nets. They had a dominant player and dicked around until their opportunity to take advantage was gone.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 16 2008, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This thread is about Carter's contract and Thorn's incompetence. So it has everything to do with the Nets. They had a dominant player and dicked around until their opportunity to take advantage was gone.</div> And my point was that its easier to build around a dominant low post bigman on a rookie contract than a PG making max money and not enough cap space to play the market. That's been my point and don't tell me it's the same situation.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 16 2008, 10:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 16 2008, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This thread is about Carter's contract and Thorn's incompetence. So it has everything to do with the Nets. They had a dominant player and dicked around until their opportunity to take advantage was gone.</div> And my point was that its easier to build around a dominant low post bigman on a rookie contract than a PG making max money and not enough cap space to play the market. That's been my point and don't tell me it's the same situation. </div> True or False, the Magic front office created their cap space with a key trade?
Hell, Orlando doesn't have any stars. Look at their roster! They were able to win 50 games just by getting players that fit together. Thorn could easily have done that within the parameters he was given that if he wasn't stupid.
Cpawfan, we all know cap space is worthless. Having a former All-Star like Steve Francis would have made them more competitive. Without him they were doomed. Did you even look at his stats?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 16 2008, 10:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hell, Orlando doesn't have any stars. Look at their roster! They were able to win 50 games just by getting players that fit together. Thorn could easily have done that within the parameters he was given that if he wasn't stupid.</div> WTF!!! How can you not consider Dwight a star!! The guy is putting up 20.9 ppg on 59.8% shooting, 14.3 rpg, .9 spg, 2.2 bpg, and draws about as much attention in the paint as anyone at this time in the league. He's probably the best or 2nd best big man in the league at this point. I would only put Yao up there with him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Apr 16 2008, 10:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 16 2008, 10:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 16 2008, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This thread is about Carter's contract and Thorn's incompetence. So it has everything to do with the Nets. They had a dominant player and dicked around until their opportunity to take advantage was gone.</div> And my point was that its easier to build around a dominant low post bigman on a rookie contract than a PG making max money and not enough cap space to play the market. That's been my point and don't tell me it's the same situation. </div> True or False, the Magic front office created their cap space with a key trade? </div> True, but Ghoti has been referring to the Nets building a team around Kidd as competitive as Orlando built around Howard. It's 2 different scenarios considering Kidd was the big salaried cap space eater and was a PG. Dwight was a dominant big man, the kind that comes around only once every couple years, and on a rookie contract. Francis was easy to say goodbye to because he was high salaried and not a key component. And Kidd was 32+, as well. Hard to strip down all your cap space and have a 2 or 3 year building project when your main component is near the end of his prime. Easy to do all that when your not competing like the Magic were and you have a 20 year old star in the making on your roster. Now if we want to talk about how he should have traded Kidd and rebuilt a couple years ago that is a different argument than saying Thorn should've been able to build around Kidd the same as Smith built around Howard. Thorn had less resources to do so.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Apr 16 2008, 11:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>True, but Ghoti has been referring to the Nets building a team around Kidd as competitive as Orlando built around Howard. It's 2 different scenarios considering Kidd was the big salaried cap space eater and was a PG. Dwight was a dominant big man, the kind that comes around only once every couple years, and on a rookie contract. Francis was easy to say goodbye to because he was high salaried and not a key component. And Kidd was 32+, as well. Hard to strip down all your cap space and have a 2 or 3 year building project when your main component is near the end of his prime. Easy to do all that when your not competing like the Magic were and you have a 20 year old star in the making on your roster. Now if we want to talk about how he should have traded Kidd and rebuilt a couple years ago that is a different argument than saying Thorn should've been able to build around Kidd the same as Smith built around Howard. Thorn had less resources to do so.</div> Yes, they are different scenarios and starting points, but it still comes down to a front office recognizing when they need to make a change. Orlando, recognizing when Hill's contract would come off their books and that they would need to make a significant changer, got rid of Francis for an expiring contract. Thorn has spent the past few seasons building a team that didn't accentuate Kidd's strengths. His attempts to apply small fixes to this large problem resulted in a team that continued to decline.
If you look at everything that Otis has done, he basically traded Steve Francis (who is done as far as I'm concerned) for Rashard Lewis. He also got Carlos Arroyo for Kelvin Cato who is now out of the league. Last, he got rid of Ariza for Evans and Cook. Ariza has foot problems that will not go away and he didn't fit in our system. Smith recognized this and brought in a starting SG (Evans is averaging 9.3 points per game as our fourth option) and a good role player in Cook.
Forget the Magic. Look how the Lakers have been put together even with a big time star leaving/forcing his way out for a bigger payday. -Petey
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Apr 16 2008, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Forget the Magic. Look how the Lakers have been put together even with a big time star leaving/forcing his way out for a bigger payday. -Petey</div> Things that the Lakers had that New Jersey doesn't. - Phil Jackson - only a few coaches in the league do a job like he does to build a great system for his star. - Shaq's value was higher than Kidd's value, although Kidd has played spectacular. - Bynum , Odom, and Gasol are better than any NJ big men.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Apr 16 2008, 10:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 16 2008, 10:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hell, Orlando doesn't have any stars. Look at their roster! They were able to win 50 games just by getting players that fit together. Thorn could easily have done that within the parameters he was given that if he wasn't stupid.</div> WTF!!! How can you not consider Dwight a star!! The guy is putting up 20.9 ppg on 59.8% shooting, 14.3 rpg, .9 spg, 2.2 bpg, and draws about as much attention in the paint as anyone at this time in the league. He's probably the best or 2nd best big man in the league at this point. I would only put Yao up there with him. </div> C'mon, man. Can't you follow along with the discussion?
