<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cmoney707 @ Apr 14 2008, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 14 2008, 05:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>That's how to maximize your dollars. You start with your superstar and surround him with anything you can to help him win. That's something Rod Thorn knows nothing about.</div> And if it's so easy to find a superstar, can you please tell us how it's done. Orlando got lucky that Dwight transformed into what he is now. I'm sure the teams that drafted Kwame Brown, Nikoloz Tskitishvili, Darko Milicic, and Andrew Bogut all thought they were getting superstars too. </div> He did not say anything about the difficulty of acquiring a star, but rather what a front office must do to make good team that has a superstar in it. And in case you havent noticed, he does not consider Vince a superstar, just a piece that can push some teams into contention(Hornets and Jazz) And even though having a superstar on a team sounds great, a team without one can win as well(pistons). Some teams, like the Nets, have shown the inability to find the right pieces for its main piece. Also look at the Sixers with AI. Granted they got to the finals but the East was even in a worse state than it is now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 14 2008, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Celtics tried like hell to trade Pierce. He made too much money, so it was damn lucky McHale gifted them a true superstar or they would be completely f'd.</div> Meaning Pierce WASN'T a true superstar? How do you figure Garnett to have been any more valuable individually than Pierce? Did his teams have any more playoff success than Pierce's? (Actually it was the other way around.) It took the complimentary combination of them both, PLUS an elite shooter and perrennial allstar in Allen, for this Boston team to do what it's done. I could just as easily say that it was damn lucky Pierce's salary kept him from being traded, else there's no chance in hell Boston would be enjoying their best season and chance for a title since 1986. I don't think Brand is quite Garnett, and I don't think Harris is quite Ray Allen in impact. But if you put those two, Carter, and a couple of choice support pieces on a team together and they all played over 70 games, I guarantee that team is no worse than a 4th seed. Good luck seeing the 4th seed any time soon after trading Vince for garbage.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 14 2008, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't agree that every player is "overpaid". Orlando gave Rashard Lewis a gigantic contract and he is worth every penny to them. That's how you build a team. Find a legitimate superstar and surround him with what he needs to win. Thorn had his chance and he completely mucked it up.</div> I'm not sure what's funnier, the idea that Rashard Lewis isn't overpaid (and the biggest obstacle to a championship coming to Orlando in the near future) or the idea that Thorn EVER had a "legitimate superstar" of the caliber of Dwight Howard, quite simply one of the most gifted athletic big men to ever enter the league.
Yea, Rashard Lewis is overpaid, 18.3 ppg, 5 rpg, 2.5 apg on 45% shooting. Getting paid an average of like 19 mill per year for 6 years. He averages 4-5 mill per year more than Dwight for the next 5 years.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Apr 14 2008, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yea, Rashard Lewis is overpaid, 18.3 ppg, 5 rpg, 2.5 apg on 45% shooting. Getting paid an average of like 19 mill per year for 6 years. He averages 4-5 mill per year more than Dwight for the next 5 years.</div> It's insane. Dwight's a very good kid, and perhaps he will remain above petty jealousy. But did the fools in the front office even consider how it would look to have the franchise player earning that much less for that long than your "second" guy? And, in reality, Lewis isn't even the SECOND best player on that team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 14 2008, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't agree that all complimentary players making the max are overpaid. Orlando got slammed for signing Rashard Lewis, but it was a brilliant move. (continued next post)</div> I have to disagree with you there. I think what determines a player's value to a team is his talent level along with importance to the team's core. Imo, lewis is not talented enough for the money he makes, and his contract will make resigning Dwight and adding more depth to the roster in the future difficult.
Jason Kidd in his prime was a player a good GM like Otis Smith could have won a championship with. He understands how to win in the NBA.
They would have a lot more trouble resigning Dwight if they were a losing team. They won't be. They'll get their guard. Its their only weakness.
He's valuable to the Magic. But not max-contract valuable (In my mind, a very select group of players of players are worth the max. Not Marbury, not Vince, not Jermaine, not Kenyon, and not Rashard). (For clarity, the antecedent of "He" is Rashard)
Unlike the people on this board, Dwight Howard is bright enough to know he is making the most money possible and will continue doing that over his entire career.
If u asked me,i'd say that Vince is underpaid.Ghoti,i agree with u about kidd bein' an old ass selfish.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 14 2008, 07:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>L, what determines a player's value is how many games more you will win with him than without him.</div> That's what I meant when i said his importance to the core of the team.. Also what determines a player's value is his uniqueness(cant think of a better word right now))(for example, if Rasual Butler wanted a RJ type of contract even though his only attribute is 3 pt shooting, then look to some other shooters instead of wasting so much money on Rasual).
You have to pay market value and you can't hesitate if you believe the right player is available. getting someone "80% as good" because he is cheaper is a sure way to lose.
Rashard is very unique, L. His size, skill set and demeanor is exactly what the Magic wanted. So far they have done nothing but benefit.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 14 2008, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You have to pay market value and you can't hesitate if you believe the right player is available. getting someone "80% as good" because he is cheaper is a sure way to lose.</div> What if the player(Butler) asks for more than the market value, wouldnt you try to get the same type of player at the same talent level cheaper(at the actual market value)? Wouldnt it be more wise, continuing from my previous example with Rasaul Butler, to sign, say, Giricek or Matt Carrol instead(if they are asking for less money than Butler)?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 14 2008, 07:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Rashard is very unique, L. His size, skill set and demeanor is exactly what the Magic wanted. So far they have done nothing but benefit.</div> I'm not sayin he isnt. I was just providing some more info on what I believe is criteria for signing a player and his worth. Thus why i use the Rasual Butler hypothetical instead.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Apr 14 2008, 07:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Rashard is very unique, L. His size, skill set and demeanor is exactly what the Magic wanted. So far they have done nothing but benefit.</div> No one is doubting that the magic have benefitted, but he's getting paid like a top 15 player in the league which he is no where close to. The guy has made one all-star appearance and has nothing else on his resume. I don't need to show you any stats to show you that he is not worth top 15 money. The guy hasn't done anything in his career noteworthy.
L, you are comparing role players to core players. Lewis is an extremely valuable core player. He is very specifically suited for what the Magic want to do.
