<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PlaTsanity:</div><div class="quote_post">My list: 10) Arenas 9) Rasheed Wallace 8) Paul Peirce 7) Redd 6) Carter 5) Manu 4) Tony Parker 3) Kobe 2) T-Mac--and AI; Tied 1) wade</div> Rasheed Wallace? Both Tony Parker, Allen Iverson and Gilbert Arenas are listed as PGs. Paul Pierce is listed as a SF.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">Lebron and Wade lovers too often use the words "could be" as a cop out. "He's not better than Kobe, but he COULD BE". How bout this, they're both very good, but COULD never become great players. </div> Yea, and people used could be a lot when Kobe came into the league. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting trenchteam:</div><div class="quote_post">Lets see how far Wade can go in the playoffs with the Laker roster from last year!</div> The chemistry would be there with Odom Butler and Grant, the Lakers lacked that last year IMO and Wade may have been able to give them a better record.
For those of you who consider Kobe a bad teammate ... I'm curious to hear what your definition of a teammate is?
^^I never said he was a bad teamate, all I said was that Wade would've had more chemistry with that roster because he grew close with them in his rookie year. Kobe has been called a bad teamate because of what went on with Shaq, I think his leadership could be better but he's isn't a bad teamate.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting playmaker14:</div><div class="quote_post">^^I never said he was a bad teamate, all I said was that Wade would've had more chemistry with that roster because he grew close with them in his rookie year. Kobe has been called a bad teamate because of what went on with Shaq, I think his leadership could be better but he's isn't a bad teamate.</div> I asked for <u>those who did</u>.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting PlaTsanity:</div><div class="quote_post">My list: 10) Arenas 9) Rasheed Wallace 8) Paul Peirce 7) Redd 6) Carter 5) Manu 4) Tony Parker 3) Kobe 2) T-Mac--and AI; Tied 1) wade</div> This is very bad, very bad indeed, Tony Parker? He's hardly a Top 50 player in the league, and then Rasheed Wallace? What list is this, your favourite players list?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">This is very bad, very bad indeed, Tony Parker? He's hardly a Top 50 player in the league, and then Rasheed Wallace? What list is this, your favourite players list?</div> Hey, rasheed is a great guard...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting playmaker14:</div><div class="quote_post">Yea, and people used could be a lot when Kobe came into the league. The chemistry would be there with Odom Butler and Grant, the Lakers lacked that last year IMO and Wade may have been able to give them a better record.</div> I think the fact that kobe was injured alot last season affected their record Ultimately, just ask yourself if u have 1 more possession at a chance to win the game who would you give the ball to kobe or wade?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ultimately, just ask yourself if u have 1 more possession at a chance to win the game who would you give the ball to kobe or wade?</div> that's simply debating how "clutch" kobe or wade is. What defines the better player is how is the better player overall. If all aspects of compaarions are equal between who/what is being compared, then it can be summed up to one category, but you must compare every single apsect of each player, determine how important each category is and choose based on that. IMO it is unfair to judge Kobe and Wade, and sepereate players who are so talented/related. Everything results in conditional comparisons(it gets worse when you compare Kobe and Jordan). With that said, I think that Wade will be the better player, and I think og15 broke it down very well in post #34.
Let me ask you guys this... who would you give the ball to when the game is on the line and there is 5 seconds left on the clock? I would give it Wade, over Kobe and Tmac. Wade seems to be more focused and in control at those moments. Kobe has he's share of clutch shots but he also has too many instances where he does something stupid or selfish to screw it up. Same with Tmac, although both are getting better. Kobe no doubt is the most complete basketball player. He does everything just about perfect with perfect form and technique. Tmac is a taller version of Kobe but not as many moves as Kobe like someone said above. I think being a great player is about being able to do the right thing and the right moment in the game.... and I think Wade has this.
first of all wade is the most outta control player in the nba..he had the most turnovers behind AIhere kobe was second in scoringhere yeah they both had the same people....but wade got the hungry players the players who wanted to win..kobe got the dudes who was so happy wit they check they winning was prolly second to them..odom,butler, and grant...wade is not on kobe's level shooting: Kobe, do i really need to explain this,wade isn't a greet shooter 1 on 1 moves: Kobe even tho wade has some ill moves, kobe a lot more effective ones especially in triple threat position and back to the basket defense:tie, they both have good defense skillz i feel kobe could be a lil better tho leadership:wade, he wasn't really leader reg. season but playoff time he took the load when shaq was out. same thing kobe use to do basketball IQ: Kobe, both of them take questionable shots but wade gets too outta control he's to fast for his own good sometimes..too many unforced turnovers passing: kobe, i think there vision is a tie but kobe passing are more efficent and on target rebounding: kobe, he's better period as u can see with him second in triple-doubles past seasonhere the stats speak for there selfs everybody intitled to there own opinion
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Interesting top 10 list, however, the writer should change the title of his article to best teammate shooting guard. He pointed Kobe is better at everything, and the best package, but is held back by his leadership skills. Hopefully Kobe can correct that element of his game, in the eyes of his critics. Based on his criteria I think TMac should have been #1 on the list. He lead the Rockets last season into the playoffs, and resorted back to playing defense. He stepped to the challenge to defend Dirk Nowitzki in the playoffs. Dwayne Wade is a great player, but he didn't have the responsibility of being the team's #1 option on offense and defense. Shaq was the #1 option on offense, and Eddie Jones was the #1 option on defense. Based on last season my top 5 would be ... Tracy McGrady Kobe Bryant Dwayne Wade Ray Allen Manu Ginobili</div> I dont agree with you the way, you rated T-Mac. He did not lead the Rockets single-handedly. Im not saying Kobe can either, but the way you rated him cause of bringing the Rockets into the playoffs was a bit bias.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Omnipotent:</div><div class="quote_post">OK... the first thing that just about discredits every other thing you have said in your post is your questioning whether Kobe is more clutch than Wade. I doubt you will find a Kobe hater alive who does not agree that kobe has been the most clutch player in the NBA in the last 5 years.</div> I disagree. I think Kobe is clutch, more so than MOST of the stars out there but i wouldnt put him at the top of the list. Personally if i was taking a list of clutch from last year only i'd HAVE to put Jalen Rose on it somewhere..though not the top simply because the raps didnt have any really important games. Robert Horry is the most clutch player in the NBA, Kobe is top 5(maybe #2) and some people could make an arguement for Billups. I think Tim Duncan is a realistic option for being the most clutch(after big shot bob) person on the NBA.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheHitman:</div><div class="quote_post">I dont agree with you the way, you rated T-Mac. He did not lead the Rockets single-handedly. Im not saying Kobe can either, but the way you rated him cause of bringing the Rockets into the playoffs was a bit bias.</div> How was my answer bias? If you read the criteria I think it's fair to list T-Mac as #1, specifically for last year only. He didn't lead the Rockets single-handedly, it's a team game so that will never happen, but T-Mac took the team to the next level. He had a lot of memorable games last year and really showed his leadership and maturity in the Dallas series.
Ask Shaq who he'd rather team with. The Lakers won less than the Clips. That Shaq,Phil,left had a lot to do with Kobe. The NBA is full of inflated egos and yet Kobe comes off as the most self centered in the bunch. Like Marbury or Sprewell his game skill are offset somewhat by how he affects team chemistry. Wade has plenty of game,but the edge is because he does not piss off teammates...especially certain 7-1 superstars.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Lamont- Hey, rasheed is a great gaurd</div> I'm not tryin to call you out but WHICH RASHEED ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?! Rasheed Wallace couldn't even pass as a small forward, and your trying to pass him off as a gaurd? Rasheed is a great player but calling rasheed a gaurd is like calling Tony Parker a power forward. ANYWAYS- You simply can't call Wade better yet just because lack of experience. As for all the other stats, scoring, passing, defense, decision making, passing, bball IQ, Kobe still wins all that anyways
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ilive4ball:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not tryin to call you out but WHICH RASHEED ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?! Rasheed Wallace couldn't even pass as a small forward, and your trying to pass him off as a gaurd? Rasheed is a great player but calling rasheed a gaurd is like calling Tony Parker a power forward.</div> I think he was being sarcastic...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">Ask Shaq who he'd rather team with. The Lakers won less than the Clips. That Shaq,Phil,left had a lot to do with Kobe. The NBA is full of inflated egos and yet Kobe comes off as the most self centered in the bunch. Like Marbury or Sprewell his game skill are offset somewhat by how he affects team chemistry. Wade has plenty of game,but the edge is because he does not piss off teammates...especially certain 7-1 superstars.</div> I think you have to wait a couple-of-more seasons... I never thought Shaq and Kobe were ever going to get to this point, but it did... They both have issues in their game and attitude, which is why they couldn't play on the same team... But if you ask me, Shaq was the one who left. It kills me when people say that is was Kobe's doing why Phil Jackson and Shaq left... I mean, they had the choice to stay, but they didn't because Shaq felt he and his family wouldn't be able survive on a 27 mil per year payroll. And Phil Jackson left because he played it off as Dr. Buss didn't want to give him 10 mil per year; which was true. Dr. Buss had every right to manage his money the way he did; and if he felt that Phil and Shaq weren't worth the money they wanted, then so-be-it... Shaq was also barking the fact that he needed the ball, but everytime he received it, he threw up garbage... So when you're Kobe on the Lakers, or just Kobe; you're dammed if you do, and you're dammed if you don't ... It just seams that what ever Kobe did, you would hear about in the papers or some where... So I say, TO HELL with those guys (PJ & Shaq)... I think its great that Phil Jackson is back (there must be a reason why he's back besides the fact that he is now getting the money that he wants; if you talked that much shhht about someone in a book you wrote, it wouldn't make sense to come back and coach that same person the next follwing year), and I hope Shaq stubs his fat-ass toe, and pulls a muscle, and btches and complains about why he's not getting the rock down low, and starts to talk smack on why Wade, Walker, and Williams (the WWWs) keeps shooting the ball, blazay-blazay-blazay-blazay......
wow, wow.. PLEASE STOP COMPARING 3PT%. Kobe took 387 3Pt attempts last year. Wade took 98 3Pt attempts.... IN HIS FIRST TWO YEARS COMBINED. It does not take a genius to figure out that they have different playing styles. Despite that massive difference in 3pt shot attempts, wade averaged 3 pts less than Kobe last year. Offensively they essentially produce the same amount, with Wade shooting a higher percentage overall.. And I'm sorry Laker fanboys, but using "3 pt percentage" as a pro for Kobe and a con for Wade just DOES NOT WORK. Wade isn't a 3 pt shooter and doesnt actively look for a 3 pt shot. Anyone who's seen him play will know that. You don't need to be a 3pt marksman to be the better SG. Wade is in essence a complete player without it.. and in fact in some ways he is even better due to his shot selection and resulting high FG%.
In Kobe's defense, he won three rings with Shaq, and a bunch of lesser role players than Wade had. Imagine this lineup. PG-Damon Jones SG-Kobe SF-Eddie Jones PF-Udonis Haslem C- Shaq Sure, you could argue that during the Lakers run they had a better starting 5. But, Damon Jones would have held his own against western point guards better than Fisher ever did. Also, any of the Heat's big men would have been a better backup to Shaq than Slava was. With the exception of the year when GP was there, the Lakers always had an undersized and inexperienced point guard backing up Fisher. Keyon Dooling would have been better than Tyron Lue, or any of those other guys. Wade was provided with more than Kobe had, yet accomplished less.
