<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KMart @ Apr 2 2006, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How is the talent the same? Both handle the ball the same amount, LeBron has inferioir teammates, yet he gets more assists. LeBron gets more rebounds, and I don't care if it's due to position or not, he still gets more rebounds. LeBron also scores more, with a superioir variety of offensive moves. All Wade does is attack and shoot 12 ft. jumpers. LeBron can hit threes, post you up, hit pull up 20 footers, and take you inside. Then compare their teams, and it's not a valid argument. This is LeBron's best team this year, now let's compare it to DWade's first teamG. Eric Snow PG. Dwayne WadeSG. Eddie JonesSG. Ronald MurraySF. Caron ButlerSF. LeBron JamesPF. Lamar OdomPF. Drew GoodenC. Brian GrantC. Big ZWade had superioir teammates in his first year to what LeBron has even now in his career. Even off the bench, LeBron has Donyell Marshall and Damon Jones, while Wade had Udonis Haslem and Damon Jones. Wade has always had superioir teams, so while he is more prven, it's too early to use that in a valid comparison.</div>So you wanna blame Pat Riley for builidng a solid team while the Cavs GM (Ferry?) couldnt?This argument is going nowhere.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (anypoint @ Apr 2 2006, 12:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So you wanna blame Pat Riley for builidng a solid team while the Cavs GM (Ferry?) couldnt?This argument is going nowhere.</div>Wagas said that Wade was better because he has won more. I was saying that LeBron has just always had inferioir teams, so you can't really make that argument
Ok, let me say this: I have seen both play in person, LeBron twice and Wade once, and that makes gives me a HUGE new perspective in this arguement. Now that I have said that...I think this is a deadlock. Bron, as efficient and a stat stuffer as he is, Wade is even more efficient, with or without Shaq. Unlike Kobe, Wade has proven himself, with Shaq healthy, without Shaq healthy, or without him at all. Even as a rookie Wade carried his Heat team through playoffs and forced #1 seeded Pacers to 6 games in 2nd round of playoffs. With Shaq out last year in playoffs and with him not nearly 100%, he carried the Heat and stomped through playoffs. IMO, with wade healthy, they would have beat Pistons. Wade is a big time shot maker at end of games, always hitting the buzzer beaters and taking over 4th quarters. His overall game is almost unbeatable, very rare you get a 28/6.5/6.5 guy like he is. Not to mention he is shooting 50% and even without a shot outside 18ft and is only 6'4'', still is unstoppable offensively. He is also a pretty good defender. And I dont care what anyone says, with or without Shaq he is equally as unstoppable. On the other hand, Bron is arguably a better scorer. He has a better jumper, and is almost as efficient as Wade. Bron is sometimes too passive, but his passing ability is unmatched by anyone not named Kidd or Nash. He is just terrific, his court vision is amazing. He is a great rebounder, and he has proven he can lead a team, even if he doesn't really have a 2nd option. But with Bron, he is just unproven in many areas. Can he do damage in playoffs? Can he perform in clutch (4th quarters and buzzer beaters)? Can he become an above average defender? All of these things All of those questions Wade has provided resounding Yes' to. That gives him a big edge. No matter how young he is, it is still a big factor. Bron has overcome some huge questions over the past week, hitting a buzzer beater, clinching playoffs, taking over in 4th quarters. But those questions are still there, and in the next month or so, 2 of the 3 will be answered. Based on pure talent and skill, I'd take Bron over Wade, but by not much. But considering everything, I'd say it is a deadlock.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (anypoint @ Apr 2 2006, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So you wanna blame Pat Riley for builidng a solid team while the Cavs GM (Ferry?) couldnt?This argument is going nowhere.</div>How long has Ferry been the GM for the Cavs? How long has Riley been in Miami?First off I think that everyone should step back and put this in perspective. They have similar numbers pretty much all around. I will tell you this though, Wade couldn't hit a 3 pointer to save his life, when LeBron is doubling you 3P% that is sad. Just because some one will bring it up yes I watched the game and saw Wade and LeBron exchange 3's, big deal. Well Wade, atleast to GM's isnt even the best player on his team, Shaq was second in MVP voting last year, that should end the argument right there. As BCB said, 3 years is a huge difference! Just think about how huge a difference 3 years makes in your own situation, and look at how different the NBA is from 3 years ago. When LeBron was in HS, Wade was in college, married, and had a kid. Also you have to take into consideration their size and position. It's not that unheard of for a 6'4 combo guard to put up Wade's numbers. When was the last time you remember a guy with the size of a 4 dish out 7apg? I don't care what anyone says you switch around their situations the Heat win just as many games or more, and the Cavs are an 8th seed at best. That is my take on the comparison, take it with a grain of salt.
It is not a deadlock, close, but not soI admit, Wade is much more proven. There actually isn't room for comparison there. Wade has been in the playoffs twice, both times playing like a superstar, whereas LeBron has been there zero times. Wade averages 23 / 5 / 6 in the playoffs to LeBron's 0 / 0 / 0. However the whole, "Wade led his team as a rookie" is utter garbage. He wasn't playing with the '06 Los Angeles Lakers here, he was playing with solid, solid players. A starting lineup consisting of himself, Eddie Jones, Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, Brian Grant, and a bench consisting of Rafer Alston, Rasual Butler, and Udonis Haslem. His team then, was better than LeBron's team now. Wade wasn't even the leading scorer on that squad, Eddie Jones was, and watching those games religiously, Wade wasn't even their leader that year (Understandably considering he is a rookie)Now who has better skill? LeBron has a better jumpshot. While Wade is better at creating his own jumpshot within 18 feet, LeBron is much better at creating his own shot anywhere outside of 20 feet. While Wade is also a vastly underrated post player (2nd most underrated in the post at G behind Vince Carter in my eyes), LeBron James is an even better one, as he has developed a consistent turnaround jumper within 16 feet. You said it yourself, LeBron is the best passer in the league not named Nash or Kidd, which eliminates the possiblilty Wade is better in that department. LeBron also gets more rebounds, and you can say it's because he is a SF, but in reality, SFs and SGs start from the same spot on the floor, and have to go and get the rebounds in the same circumstances.So, we've concluded Wade is a better clutch player, and more proven. However Wade has had superioir teams, which means we have to give LeBron the benifit of the doubt, because getting a 17 win team to the playoffs within 3 years with no major additions is as impressive as they come. LeBron, we've also concluded, has more skill. Better shooter, better passer, better rebounder, and equally as inconsistent at the defensive endThe thing that stands out to me is: LeBron is getting all these numbers with worse teammates. LeBron has no Shaq, and hell, he might not have a Jason Williams. Damon Jones has done nothing this year until late. Donyell Marshall this year has simply done nothing. Larry Hughes has done nothing. Both handle the ball equally as much, yet LeBron gets more assists and points with a much worse team.And Wade is more efficient? LeBron has a much greater arsenal, shoots 48% and 3.27 TOs. Wade shoots 50% with 3.43 TOs. I don't see anything there worthy of a comparison in anyones favor.Watching last Saturdays game, when Wade was without Shaq, he took 36 shots to shoot 50% and score 44 points. LeBron took 26 shots to get 47 points. LeBron James is incredible, and by this point next year, we'll be talking about the best player in the NBA. Unless Wade will develop a frickin' jumpshot, he still might not even be top 5
[quote name='KMart' post='30066' date='Apr 3 2006, 05:45 PM']However the whole, "Wade led his team as a rookie" is utter garbage. He wasn't playing with the '06 Los Angeles Lakers here, he was playing with solid, solid players. A starting lineup consisting of himself, Eddie Jones, Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, Brian Grant, and a bench consisting of Rafer Alston, Rasual Butler, and Udonis Haslem. His team then, was better than LeBron's team now. Wade wasn't even the leading scorer on that squad, Eddie Jones was, and watching those games religiously, Wade wasn't even their leader that year (Understandably considering he is a rookie)[/quote]Look back on those playoffs, especially the pacers series. The team was all young players, none of them doing what they are doing now, except Odom. Wade carried that young team in playoffs, and was their leader by example and really showed the world what he was about. Yes, Bron is more versatile. But Wade is more efficient, and his numbers are about as good as Bron's. LeBron is more skilled, but Wade is RIGHT there. Agree with everything except Wade, while inconsistent, is better than Bron. He can turn on his defense and really be very good at D. Bron, no matter how hard he tries, still can't be above average. Also, what i forgot to mention is wade can get in a zone similar to T-Mac and Kobe, and take over games no matter the time of game. Bron still can't do that. I have only seen him turn it on like that once and actually win the game, and that was this past Saturday. Yes, as is Kobe getting all those numbers with crap team. Wade can get 30/7/7 with or without Shaq, can take over and win games with or without big man. He has shown he can also do it without J Williams or Zo, too. That is a fact, he is proven there. Wade is more efficient as while his arsenal isn't as wide as Bron's, he drives to basket more and can finish just as effectively as Bron. Bron sometimes can fall in love with fadeaways, Wade doesn't.As for Saturday, Heat's offense was really screwed. there 2nd best scorer and best low post threat was out, Williams didn't play much, Zo wa sout, and Posey was out. That is a HUGE shuffle in heat's offense, and left their team with less talent than the Cavs. Wade had to take over. Bron had lots more help. I agree, Bron just needs to prove more to me. I don't care what anyone says, the ability to take over games, to win games, and to take teams deep into playoffs are what shows true greatness. That is why MJ is considered GOAT, and why Pistol Pete is never considered top 20 all time. That is why I consider it a deadlock. And Wade has one of the best midrange jumpshots in the game, and what makes it even better is that he can create that shot at any time, and get a wide open look.
Bottom line, Wade and LeBron are close now but it's obvious with LeBron's skill and him being only 21 years young that we know who will be better in the future.You can debate yourself into the core of the earth who is better now citing examples from their short careers and who they played with but why bother.
Wait, so LeBron has a better arsenal on offense than DWade, hits identical FG percentage and identical TOs, but Wade is more efficient because he drives to the basket more?
Wade's FG % is 2% better than Bron's. That is a difference, and despite taking over 2 FGA's less per game, Wade only averages 3 PPG less than Bron, and that is especially intriguing since Wade doesn't shoot near as many 3's as Bron. Wade is more efficient, as he hits shots that he can hit every time. Bron is much more spurratic, similar to Kobe in that he sometimes settles for fadeaway 3 pointers. Wade will always shoot the 15-18ft jumpshot and drive it to basket and go to free throw line, or dunk it on someone. Just because Bron is more versatile on offense doesn't make him necassarily more unstoppable. Example: Amare last year was MUCH more versatile than Shaq ever was, but Shaq in his prime was most dominant and unstoppable as the league had ever seen. Wade is versatile enough to where he is just as unstoppable as Bron scoring wise.BCB- Youc an say that about most comparisons in the NBA. But comparisons about current players for me always come down to in a pickup game, which player would you choose for your team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Wade's FG % is 2% better than Bron's. That is a difference, and despite taking over 2 FGA's less per game, Wade only averages 3 PPG less than Bron, and that is especially intriguing since Wade doesn't shoot near as many 3's as Bron.</div>Good point. I think most people forget D-Wade is just as good as a scorer as Lebron is.If Wade ever develops a consistant long range shot it will get scary.
Lebron would have a much higher fg% if he scored like Dwyane did because he has the ability to penetrate and get fouled or get a dunk. He just sometimes jacks 3 pointers when it is not needed. But he has a much better offensive repertoir then Wade does because Wade can't make that long range or mid/long range jumper.Lebron actually makes his teammates better, more so then what Wade does. Lebron helps get guys like Damon Jones and Flip Murray shots. And he can throw nifty inside passes to guys like Big Z or Drew Gooden.But seriously, Wade plays guard and Lebron plays Forward and Wade almost rebounds as much as Lebron which so rebounding is not that significant.Wade is a much better defender then Lebron. When I'm watching Lebron play defense, he just stands back there and doesn't seem to give a hoot. Wade on the other hand is out there, guarding his man tightly. I think Lebron will learn how defense is just as important as offense later and develop that kind of how Michael Jordan became a defensive stopper.But right now it's Lebron. He is much more talented then Wade. He can do everything that Wade does on offense and even more.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>He just sometimes jacks 3 pointers when it is not needed. But he has a much better offensive repertoir then Wade does because Wade can't make that long range or mid/long range jumper.</div>Wade has an awesome mid range jumper. Which Wade are you watching?
[quote name='CB4AllStar' post='30586' date='Apr 4 2006, 12:55 PM']Lebron would have a much higher fg% if he scored like Dwyane did because he has the ability to penetrate and get fouled or get a dunk. He just sometimes jacks 3 pointers when it is not needed. But he has a much better offensive repertoir then Wade does because Wade can't make that long range or mid/long range jumper.[/quote]You can say same thing about Kobe. But, neither him or Bron utilize their skills as efficiently as Wade. Last year Jones had one of his best seasons with wade at PG. With Bron he has been huge dissapointment. And have you ever seen one of Wade's oops to Shaq? Bron is better rebounder, but I agree, not too big of deal here. I agree, Wade is much better defensively. Much more talented? He is more talented, but when watch the Cavs-Heat game on Saturday and tell me Wade isn't a freak of nature. He can do everything Wade does offensively....except hit big shots and take over games. And defensively, except for steals, Bron is a joke. So honestly, how is it so hard for people to see just how good Wade is?
Yeah your right. I should have said more talented but he is not much more talented. Wade is the 'quickest' plzyer in the League in my opinion. Maybe just below Tony Parker. He is so quick and he can drive so easily and finish well.But Lebron on the other hand has been blessed to play basketball. He has a natural skill to it. When I'm watching it's obvious that Wade is trying more then Lebron which is scary. Lebron is very talented and he doesn't even try to his full potential.But you are right in this debate, Wade isn't that far behind.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Apr 4 2006, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah your right. I should have said more talented but he is not much more talented. Wade is the 'quickest' plzyer in the League in my opinion. Maybe just below Tony Parker. He is so quick and he can drive so easily and finish well.But Lebron on the other hand has been blessed to play basketball. He has a natural skill to it. When I'm watching it's obvious that Wade is trying more then Lebron which is scary. Lebron is very talented and he doesn't even try to his full potential.But you are right in this debate, Wade isn't that far behind.</div>I agree. I want to add a little more to the defense. Correct me or wrong, but I have never seen Lebron ever take a charge off a rotation. I find that type of a thing as a hustle play. I dont see a lot of that from Lebron. Please ignore what Stuart Scott says about 'him and Wade diving on the floor, these are not prima donnas'. I see more hustle by Wade.But like someone said, Lebron makes the game look easy b/c of his size and speed, so he doesnt need the hustle. I dont know...As for why people dont view Wade as 'good' is because he never got hit by the hype machine like Lebron did.
Ok here's the dealLeBron is 6'8"Wade is 6'4"LeBron has a better jumper and better range than wade. Even though Bron's shot still needs work.James being 6'8" pretty much makes him a better rebounder.LeBron's "nose for the ball" on defense is great. And LeBron defintely turns the ball over less than Wade.LeBron > Wade.Ask yourself who you would rather take if you were building a team. Until Wade gets a CONSISTENT jumper, he's not better than LeBron and that still might not be enough.
If lebron can make that fadeaway 3 then bombs away, having range is better than setteling for 15 foot jumpers and driving to the hoop. It's much better to have a mix.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Lefty @ Apr 4 2006, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ok here's the dealLeBron is 6'8"Wade is 6'4"LeBron has a better jumper and better range than wade. Even though Bron's shot still needs work.James being 6'8" pretty much makes him a better rebounder.LeBron's "nose for the ball" on defense is great. And LeBron defintely turns the ball over less than Wade.LeBron > Wade.Ask yourself who you would rather take if you were building a team. Until Wade gets a CONSISTENT jumper, he's not better than LeBron and that still might not be enough.</div>Please....Bron averages only .20 TO's per game than wade and he is a forward, and Wade is far better on defense. Bron does ahve better range, but wade still mananges to score 28PPG on 50% shooting to Bron's 31PPG on 48% shooting. Pretty impressive, considering bron shoots many more 3's....I would take Bron to build a team around because he is younger and is developing in the areas that currently make him just as good as Wade. Once he can do the other things that Wade does, Bron will be best player in NBA.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If lebron can make that fadeaway 3 then bombs away, having range is better than setteling for 15 foot jumpers and driving to the hoop. It's much better to have a mix.</div>So Amare is/was better than Shaq (is/was) because he has more in his arsenal?
