Didn't Dirk have some monster games in playoff series that year prior to the nba finals? Dallas had some close losses to Miami in the nba finals, and I think had they won the championship, (and Dirk won Finals MVP) this thread would be sounding different. Dallas doesn't need to make huge changes or anything, they are an elite team, they were a couple close losses away from a championship. I think Miami still has a shot to make the Finals this year.
^I wonder what would have happened if Josh Howard never called that timeout when Wade was on the FT line about to shoot his second. With 2.9 seconds left in the game and the ball advanced to halfcourt would Dallas have won that game?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> would put him WELL above KG or T-Mac and below Duncan Wade and Kobe. Please. TMac has proved DIDDLEY SQUAT playoff wise and so has KG. Their postseason careers are MINISCULE compared to Dirk's. </div> I guess we forgot what Tmac did to him a couple of years ago.....fortunately Dirk had better teammates....Tmac = more clutch than Dirk, mainly because he's more versatile on the offensive end...Dirk is a shooter come crunch time...and that's about it...and there have been plenty of moments vs. Spurs, Mavs, and Rockets in the post season where he has dissapeared at the end of the games...dude just doesn't come to mind when I think of clutch players....let me put it like this if you have a minute left in the game would Dirk be at the top of your list as a guy that you want to finish the game for you????...that's why Stackhouse got the ball at the end of the game in game 1 vs. the Spurs (last season)......that right there tells you that Dirk isn't always the guy the mavs want to lean on down the stretch... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ah I see, so not coming up down the stretch only counts against one certain team? which is Miami as thats the only team in a playoff series he has played bad against over the past few years. </div> to a cetain degree...yes......and Miami isn't the only team that Dirk has gone soft on down the stretch....
Funny how you bash Dirk for not being clutch yet you think T-mac Is? the guy has always failed to come up in the clutch in the playoffs. Hense his lack of success. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">to a cetain degree...yes......and Miami isn't the only team that Dirk has gone soft on down the stretch....</div> Care to explain who else he has gone soft on? I can't think of anyone else. Dirk's numbers are higher in the playoffs than in the regular season. Which is why I find It hard to bash him. He has done his part in the playoffs and as mentioned hit huge clutch shots in the playoffs last seasons Vs the Grizzles, Suns and Spurs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Funny how you bash Dirk for not being clutch yet you think T-mac Is? the guy has always failed to come up in the clutch in the playoffs. Hense his lack of success.</div> apparently you didn't watch the series against the mavs and the rockets a couple of years ago where Tmac outplayed and outmanned Dirk.....Dirk had a better "team" and that's why the Mavs won.....Tmac had a starting backcourt of Sura and Wesley and that's why they got burned by Jason Terry (the real hero of that series).......I'm sorry man, but I'll take tmac down the stretch anyday over Dirk, and I'm not just saying that because I'm a rockets fan....the rockets lost that series, because Dallas had a better team not because Tmac didn't come up huge....because he did....I even remember Barkley saying "if the rockets lose this series you can't blame it on tmac".....he locked him down on the defensive end all while carrying the offensive load on his back.......Tmac made Dirk look bad....... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Care to explain who else he has gone soft on? I can't think of anyone else. Dirk's numbers are higher in the playoffs than in the regular season. Which is why I find It hard to bash him. He has done his part in the playoffs and as mentioned hit huge clutch shots in the playoffs last seasons Vs the Grizzles, Suns and Spurs. </div> having better numbers is one thing, but playing in the clutch is another....the Grizzles, well they're the Grizzles (that's expected)....we wouldn't be talking about the Spurs shot if Manu wouldn't commit that stupid foul, so that one doesn't really impress me all that much.....Dirk is soft and I'm not the first person to say this....
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I guess we forgot what Tmac did to him a couple of years ago.....fortunately Dirk had better teammates....Tmac = more clutch than Dirk, mainly because he's more versatile on the offensive end...Dirk is a shooter come crunch time...and that's about it...and there have been plenty of moments vs. Spurs, Mavs, and Rockets in the post season where he has dissapeared at the end of the games...dude just doesn't come to mind when I think of clutch players....let me put it like this if you have a minute left in the game would Dirk be at the top of your list as a guy that you want to finish the game for you????...that's why Stackhouse got the ball at the end of the game in game 1 vs. the Spurs (last season)......that right there tells you that Dirk isn't always the guy the mavs want to lean on down the stretch... to a cetain degree...yes......and Miami isn't the only team that Dirk has gone soft on down the stretch....</div> Okay, I get it, you're on a Dirk-is-soft-under-pressure trip and you can't shake it. That's cool, but I ain't buying it. Myself, I'm on a LeBron-doesn't-have-that-killer-instinct trip. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I'm sure Durvasa can provide some stats that show that Dirk is a solid 4th quarter player.
I question Lebron's instinct also, it doesn't really hurt me if you say that...lol.....all I'm saying is Dirk isn't a guy who I'd consider "clutch" on the biggest stages in the post-season....he's had one or two shots, but he doesn't have that ultimate killer instinct, and you could see it last year in the finals.....
Here are Dirk's comments after Game 6 (about Wade): "Yeah, they made some adjustments. I thought once they got back home, they were great, obviously Dwyane was great. After Game 2, whatever, he was unstoppable. He really, you know, really won them the Championship. You know, from Game 3 when we were up 10, he just took over since then. He never let up. He was great. "
yeah, but he also made comments about Dallas "letting" the heat win earlier.......Wade's trash talk is justified...... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Despite the good record this year, I really hoped Mavs would've suckered the Sixers to trade Iverson for dumb Terry and some fillers. Dirk's never going to be the vocal leader and be the primary superstar who's gonna carry the team. He's better at being a Scottie Pippen than MJ. Having a legit superstar like Iverson is what Dirk and the team needs in order to succeed. </div> this post, by a mavs fan says it all....and he's not the first mavs fan to question Dirks testicular fortitude down the stretch, I've seen it on other boards also.....
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">apparently you didn't watch the series against the mavs and the rockets a couple of years ago where Tmac outplayed and outmanned Dirk.....Dirk had a better "team" and that's why the Mavs won.....Tmac had a starting backcourt of Sura and Wesley and that's why they got burned by Jason Terry (the real hero of that series).......I'm sorry man, but I'll take tmac down the stretch anyday over Dirk, and I'm not just saying that because I'm a rockets fan....the rockets lost that series, because Dallas had a better team not because Tmac didn't come up huge....because he did....I even remember Barkley saying "if the rockets lose this series you can't blame it on tmac".....</div> You mean the same series were Houston lead 2-0 going back home to Houston after taking both games in Dallas? Yeah T-mac started off that series well but faded as he tends to do after hot starts. Houston lost two close games in Houston, where was T-mac then? yeah Dallas had the better team and Houston had a weak backcourt but we are talking about how a guy does down the stretch? T-mac faded at the end of that series. Dirk had an off series but did play well enough to help his team win in other ways. Rebounding and playing at least decent enough defense. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">having better numbers is one thing, but playing in the clutch is another....the Grizzles, well they're the Grizzles (that's expected)....we wouldn't be talking about the Spurs shot if Manu wouldn't commit that stupid foul, so that one doesn't really impress me all that much.....Dirk is soft and I'm not the first person to say this....</div> Those Grizzles were a 50+ win team. Stop acting like just because they are the Grizzles that what Dirk did in that series means nothing. It is still THE PLAYOFFS!! which is why you started this whole thing off with playing well in the clutch. It still counts. So Dirk making that shot was all down to what Manu did? he still demanded the ball and took the shot, no? It's called trying to take over. Which he obviously did and helped them seal the game in overtime.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">yeah, but he also made comments about Dallas "letting" the heat win earlier.......Wade's trash talk is justified...... this post, by a mavs fan says it all....and he's not the first mavs fan to question Dirks testicular fortitude down the stretch, I've seen it on other boards also.....</div> Yea well... obviously since he said it.. he's got to be RIGHT. I mean cmon... He's a Mavs fan!
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You mean the same series were Houston lead 2-0 going back home to Houston after taking both games in Dallas? Yeah T-mac started off that series well but faded as he tends to do after hot starts. Houston lost two close games in Houston, where was T-mac then? yeah Dallas had the better team and Houston had a weak backcourt but we are talking about how a guy does down the stretch? T-mac faded at the end of that series. Dirk had an off series but did play well enough to help his team win in other ways. Rebounding and playing at least decent enough defense.</div> Tmac didn't fade.......if you really watched that series then you would know that after Van Horn got injured Josh Howard got more playing time, combine that with Jason Terry/Stackhouse in the backcourt and that's the reason the rockets lost that series.....Tmac did everything a player could do, but you can't blame him for undersized, over the hill teammates......Tmac was the best player in that series, without a question..... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So Dirk making that shot was all down to what Manu did? he still demanded the ball and took the shot, no? It's called trying to take over. Which he obviously did and helped them seal the game in overtime. </div> look if Manu doesn't commit that boneheaded foul then no one remembers that shot...bottomline....and Dirks soft criticisms would even be more justified.....to each his own, but Dirk just isn't a guy that I'd want leading my team in clutch situations...... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yea well... obviously since he said it.. he's got to be RIGHT. I mean cmon... He's a Mavs fan! </div> he's not the only mavs fan, or NBA fan that I've heard this from....
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Tmac didn't fade.......if you really watched that series then you would know that after Van Horn got injured Josh Howard got more playing time, combine that with Jason Terry/Stackhouse in the backcourt and that's the reason the rockets lost that series.....Tmac did everything a player could do, but you can't blame him for undersized, over the hill teammates......Tmac was the best player in that series, without a question.....</div> Yeah T-mac had a good statline but to blow a 2-0 lead with both games coming up at home is very tough to do. Houston were in charge of that series before everything fell apart. Maybe If T-mac came up in the clutch in those tight games through games 3 and 4 maybe Houston would of won that series. Who knows l<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">ook if Manu doesn't commit that boneheaded foul then no one remembers that shot...bottomline....and Dirks soft criticisms would even be more justified.....to each his own, but Dirk just isn't a guy that I'd want leading my team in clutch situations......</div> How do you know? Dirk still made the shot. It still would of been only a 1 point game, still could of gone either way. Wether you would want Dirk on your team in the clutch or not but for you to discredit his play in the playoffs is wrong. He has hit big shots in the playoffs and in the clutch. Yeah It all went wrong for him in the Miami series but apart from that he has proven to be good enough in the clutch. He has taken more big shots this year and made them. Every top player misses key shots in the clutch. Obviously Dirk has a point to prove this year and in the playoffs. They felt they should of won last year and seem motivated to put It right this year. The odds are on them to do It this year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah T-mac had a good statline but to blow a 2-0 lead with both games coming up at home is very tough to do. Houston were in charge of that series before everything fell apart. Maybe If T-mac came up in the clutch in those tight games through games 3 and 4 maybe Houston would of won that series. Who knows</div> Tmac did come up clutch and he didn't shrink (like someone else I know), but the Rockets had no answer for the mavs quickness, depth, and size at the guard positions.....if we would've had Juwan Howard the outcome of that series might have been different, because that would change how the rockets played defensively (tmac could've guarded Howard/Stackhouse instead of Wesley) and offensively (Ryan Bowen aka "I couldn't hit a open jump shot so you're playing 5 on 4 on offense" was our starter at PF), you're insane if you think the rockets lost that series because of tmac letting them down....Tmac was clearly on another level than Dirk during that series....
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> he's not the only mavs fan, or NBA fan that I've heard this from....</div> ^ That's great, also credible too. Let us know what else you happen to "hear" and then write back. Why would Wade bring this up right now when he and his teammates should be worrying about making it into the playoffs All i know is that the Mavs are not worrying about what happened a year ago right now. They are taking care of business.
<div class="quote_poster">THE DREAM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Tmac did come up clutch and he didn't shrink (like someone else I know), but the Rockets had no answer for the mavs quickness, depth, and size at the guard positions.....if we would've had Juwan Howard the outcome of that series might have been different, because that would change how the rockets played defensively (tmac could've guarded Howard/Stackhouse instead of Wesley) and offensively (Ryan Bowen aka "I couldn't hit a open jump shot so you're playing 5 on 4 on offense" was our starter at PF), you're insane if you think the rockets lost that series because of tmac letting them down....Tmac was clearly on another level than Dirk during that series....</div> My point is you can't bash Dirk for not coming up in the clutch when you praise T-mac so highly for It when T-mac himself over the years has failed to come up in the clutch in the playoffs himself. I'm also not talking about just with T-mac with Houston either. He has a great player with great talent but one of his main problems over the years is coming through at the end of games in the playoffs. No matter how well he plays, he has come short when It comes to closing games out.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">My point is you can't bash Dirk for not coming up in the clutch when you praise T-mac so highly for It when T-mac himself over the years has failed to come up in the clutch in the playoffs himself. I'm also not talking about just with T-mac with Houston either. He has a great player with great talent but one of his main problems over the years is coming through at the end of games in the playoffs. No matter how well he plays, he has come short when It comes to closing games out.</div> I didn't praise Tmac highly, but since he's been in Houston (where he's had good teammates) one of my complaints about his game wouldn't be his lack of clutch play....Tmac hasn't been out of the first round, because the "team" around him hasn't been better than the opposing squad...Dirk on the other hand had a better team "man for man" than Miami last year, BUT Wade is clutch and Dirk is not....that's why Dallas lost that series......as D. Wade already stated....anywho I'm tired of arguing, because until Dirk shows me he isn't a puss come crunch time, then my opinion of him isn't changing.....
lol, this is the most ridiculous thread. all this talk about dirk being soft? Did you guys watch a different series? Sure, he missed some shots in pivotal moments, but so has every god damn star you can name. I'm still amazed how people can label someone soft based on a few performances, just remember, kobe, mj, etc, probably have missed more clutch shots than they made, but we remember the ones they made. Let's give dirk a chance at fair play here too.
I've given him chances, and it isn't so much of him missing shots, but just not even attempting to shoot in a close elimination game in the finals tells me a lot about a guys heart...he shyed away in game 6 after having a good start.....
