<span style="font-family:Book Antiqua">I know the comeback toward my post will be "Because DWade has a great supporting cast!", but I think DWade has proven himself reliable of being given a franchise's star player spot. Bosh? He has yet to lead the Raptors to the Playoffs; I'm not saying he won't, but he hasn't done so yet... So, pretty much, I'd go with DWade over Bosh any day. I like Bosh, but he would probably be like KG. You see, KG can have a supporting cast similar to DWade, but he needs another star player to back him up. Same goes for Bosh. He can be given a good supporting cast, but there has to be a Pippen to his Jordan, you know? For DWade? Shaq fell off tremendously (only played 57 or so games, btw) and everyone else on the team were old guys who <u>used</u> to be star players. So, basically, I'd get DWade because he doesn't need another star player to help support him.</span>
Easily Wade, although it's tough comparing a PF/C to a PG/SG.But Wade would be the VERY easy choice for me. He is a better scorer, more versatile and can put up more points with nearly the same FG %. Bosh will consistently get you 23-25PPG, and occasionally higher, but if Wade;s team needs 40, he is more than capable on any given night.Wade can run an offense, and do it extremely well. He gets you 7APG a night, and his scoring allows other to get open jumpshots. Bosh doesn't give you this aspect of the game.Rebounding isn't fair, but Bosh is good rebounder for his size while Wade is a great rebounder for his size.Defensively, Bosh isn't very initimidating. He is still fairly weak and weighs only 15lbs more than Wade. Unlike say a KG, he is not agressive and doesn't do much blocking. Wade, while still not a freat defender, is a good defender and gets a lot of steals and forces turnovers.Now the biggest area- Clutch ability, leadership and ability to win. Clutch ability is easily Wade. In his career, Bosh has hit 2 game winners. Wade hit 6, not including these playoffs. Not to mention his game winning dishes and exploding in 4th quarters/OT's and carrying teams to victories. That leads me to leadership, Wade has gotten past 1st round of playoffs each year he has been in league, has carried team at one point or another each of those times, and has a ring and finals MVP to boast. He is not too vocal of a leader, but his ability to totally carry teams, and his accomplishments, make up for it. And ability to win, while not totally fair, somewhat ties in with those others 2 categories. If you are a great leader, a clutch player, and raise play when it counts, you will be more likely to win, and Wade shines there.Then, as Valo said, Wade sells, Bosh/big men in general, don't.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Oct 15 2006, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well he led his team to the 2nd round and was very clutch in that post season including a gamewinner against the hornets. In game 6 against the pacers when all his teamates disappeared wade kept his team in the game. He had 10 points in the 4th quarter. Check out the rest of the teamOdom 5-17Jones 6-21Butler 1-9Grant 0-5He did that without shaq. Shaq is not the reason why wade is a superstar. Wade would've become a superstar with or without shaq.</div>Never said Wade wouldn't be a superstar without Shaq, but I do think that without Shaq he wouldn't have his first championship.
^And without Wade the Heat probably wouldn't have even made playoffs, let alone get out of the 1st round. With Shaq out a good part of the year, with coaching changes, with a crapload of injuries and no realy direction for the team....he did a great job of keeping this team in tact. Without Wade's 27/7/6/2 on 50% shooting, this team probably wouldn't have seen the playoffs.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Oct 15 2006, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>^And without Wade the Heat probably wouldn't have even made playoffs, let alone get out of the 1st round. With Shaq out a good part of the year, with coaching changes, with a crapload of injuries and no realy direction for the team....he did a great job of keeping this team in tact. Without Wade's 27/7/6/2 on 50% shooting, this team probably wouldn't have seen the playoffs.</div>Did I say that Wade sucked? Did I say that Miami would have won with Shaq but without Wade!?I'm just saying that part of the reason Miami won was because they had Shaq! Oh wait, part of the reason they won was because they had D-Wade!And Zo, and Payton, and Jason Williams, and James Posey...And on, and on, and on...Yes Wade was crucial, and without him the Heat wouldn't have their championship.But if you put Wade on Toronto and Bosh on Miami the Heat could STILL be champions while the Raptors would STILL not have one.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (falconman1130 @ Oct 15 2006, 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Did I say that Wade sucked? Did I say that Miami would have won with Shaq but without Wade!?I'm just saying that part of the reason Miami won was because they had Shaq! Oh wait, part of the reason they won was because they had D-Wade!And Zo, and Payton, and Jason Williams, and James Posey...And on, and on, and on...Yes Wade was crucial, and without him the Heat wouldn't have their championship.But if you put Wade on Toronto and Bosh on Miami the Heat could STILL be champions while the Raptors would STILL not have one.</div>With Shaq averaging 13PPG in Finals, team down 0-2, and team down 10pts in last 5min of game 3, what happenned? Wade had 2 of the greatest 4th quarters the NBA Finals has ever seen, and averaged 40PPG through games 3-6. Outside of Wade, the rest of the team averaged 60PPG, including Shaq. Not enough to beat a high scoring Mavs team who came off 2 huge series' vs Spurs and Suns...Or how about the fact that Wade averaged 30/6/5/2/2 on 70% shooting vs the DETROIT PISTONS through the 1st 5 games (last game he had flu and didn't play 4th quarter due to blowout, but he still went for 27//6/5/2/2 on 62% shooting if you include that game).You REALLY think Bosh could have done any of that, made that kind of HUGE impact? I think not. You could go on and on all day about how Player A wouldn't have gotten to _____ without Player B. In other words, don't play that game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Oct 15 2006, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>With Shaq averaging 13PPG in Finals, team down 0-2, and team down 10pts in last 5min of game 3, what happenned? Wade had 2 of the greatest 4th quarters the NBA Finals has ever seen, and averaged 40PPG through games 3-6. Outside of Wade, the rest of the team averaged 60PPG, including Shaq. Not enough to beat a high scoring Mavs team who came off 2 huge series' vs Spurs and Suns...Or how about the fact that Wade averaged 30/6/5/2/2 on 70% shooting vs the DETROIT PISTONS through the 1st 5 games (last game he had flu and didn't play 4th quarter due to blowout, but he still went for 27//6/5/2/2 on 62% shooting if you include that game).You REALLY think Bosh could have done any of that, made that kind of HUGE impact? I think not. You could go on and on all day about how Player A wouldn't have gotten to _____ without Player B. In other words, don't play that game.</div>Dude, I'm a Heat fan. I LIKE D-WADE, I'm stoked he did what he did.That being said, I look at basketball as a team sport, because that's what it is! The Heat wouldn't have a championship without D-Wade, that much is certain. But they also wouldn't have a championship without Shaquille O'Neal. As a leader, on the floor, the impact of Shaquille O'Neal shouldn't be minimized just like the impact of D-Wade shouldn't be. I agree that it's because of D-Wade's incredible effort that the Heat are champions, but part of the reason Wade has been so successful SO EARLY is because of Shaq. If you put switched Shaq and Zydrunas Ilgauskas do you think the Heat would be championship contenders still? Or would the Cavs be higher up there?I'm NOT saying that it's through a superhuman effort by Shaq that the Heat have a championship. But without him they wouldn't have it either.And Chris Bosh and Shaq together? Sounds like a darn fine frontcourt to me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melo061 @ Oct 14 2006, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Who would you start a franchise with? edit: Wade's losing in a poll against bosh on real gm.</div>y cudnt u lev this in the raps forum?whuts the point of dsicussing this again
Again, everyone knows they wouldn't have a ring without Shaq, but you can say that about any player who has won a title. Yes, Bosh hasn't had what Wade has had in terms of role players, but minimizing anything Wade did because he had a good team built around him is stupid, especially since the performance he put on throughout playoffs.Then look at in his 1st season what he did in playoffs, putting over 20PPG against best team in league, hitting GW vs NO, etc... Look at what he did at Marquette. The kid is a natural winner, a natural leader, and has always been clutch. Bosh hasn't won sh*t on anything resembling a big stage, hasn't shown he can take over like Wade, hasn't shown he can lead like Wade...c'mon.Put Z on Heat and you still have a team that reaches the ECF at very least. Wade up's his play in playoffs and whenever his team needs him, so yes I believe they'd still be better than Cavs and would get farther.Bosh and Shaq would be nice....Wade and Shaq is much nicer.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Oct 16 2006, 12:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again, everyone knows they wouldn't have a ring without Shaq, but you can say that about any player who has won a title. Yes, Bosh hasn't had what Wade has had in terms of role players, but minimizing anything Wade did because he had a good team built around him is stupid, especially since the performance he put on throughout playoffs.Then look at in his 1st season what he did in playoffs, putting over 20PPG against best team in league, hitting GW vs NO, etc... Look at what he did at Marquette. The kid is a natural winner, a natural leader, and has always been clutch. Bosh hasn't won sh*t on anything resembling a big stage, hasn't shown he can take over like Wade, hasn't shown he can lead like Wade...c'mon.Put Z on Heat and you still have a team that reaches the ECF at very least. Wade up's his play in playoffs and whenever his team needs him, so yes I believe they'd still be better than Cavs and would get farther.Bosh and Shaq would be nice....Wade and Shaq is much nicer.</div>Nitro forget having Shaq, your Bosh for a second, your tipping off for a ball game, you look to your right (last year) you see Rafael Araujo to your right, and Matt Bonner to Your left, Behind you is Mike James, and Morris Peterson at SG, you think to yourself? were would the ball best go to? Araujo will probably drop it, Bonner might score but most likely will take a jump shot, Mike James has a sixty percent chance of scoring, yet you know that one jump shot he misses could turn into many more, You look infront of you, you see Shaq tipping off against you, what can you do? Your the only one on this team that has even a REMOTE chance of gaurding this guy, you ask yourself what the hell am I doin center? and aruajo starting at my spot??Bosh had NO supporting cast....Mike James and Peterson was closest and they wer just over abismal overrall. Dont tell me Bosh sucks as a player now, tell me his team sucks
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Oct 16 2006, 12:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nitro forget having Shaq, your Bosh for a second, your tipping off for a ball game, you look to your right (last year) you see Rafael Araujo to your right, and Matt Bonner to Your left, Behind you is Mike James, and Morris Peterson at SG, you think to yourself? were would the ball best go to? Araujo will probably drop it, Bonner might score but most likely will take a jump shot, Mike James has a sixty percent chance of scoring, yet you know that one jump shot he misses could turn into many more, You look infront of you, you see Shaq tipping off against you, what can you do? Your the only one on this team that has even a REMOTE chance of gaurding this guy, you ask yourself what the hell am I doin center? and aruajo starting at my spot??Bosh had NO supporting cast....Mike James and Peterson was closest and they wer just over abismal overrall. Dont tell me Bosh sucks as a player now, tell me his team sucks</div>Umm, this was a horrible post. I never discredited anything Bosh has done, he is a fantastic player. Wanna play this game, eh?You're Dwyane Wade, and facing the Mavs. In the series, you're down 0-2, down 10pts with 5min left to go in game 3. The game before your 2nd option, Shaq, the MDE....scored 5pts and was outplayed by Erik Dampier. He only has 14pts this game. You go off, score 42pts, get game winning pass, hit free throw to seal it, then get steal to make sure they don't tie game. Next 3 games average 38/7/4 on 51% shooting, including a game tier and GW in game 5. Rest of team averages 60PPG for series, incluidng the MDE, Shaq, again a very high powered Mavs team that was on a roll.Bosh had a 20/6 player in James, a 17PPG scorer in MoPete, and fairly decent role players. Not saying that he didn't do his best to get team to respectability, but Wade has been in situations where he was expected to totally carry teams, despite how well they play. It seems he almost always succeedes, and does it with some of the most well rounded stats in the game. Hell, he even did it against Argentina in the WC's, without Wade's HUGE game they might not even have bronze.
