He could potentially start for Sacramento too. The Kings, according to ESPN Insider, were once thinking of trading Christie. Despite all his defense, the team wanted more offense from the 2 position and since the Kings play less defense this year than a year ago, they are more akin to Dallas (letting their defense be their offense). And since Bibby/Jackson often play together, they have no problem running small ball. So don't bash a player. That's my point.
Running small ball has shown to worked with the Hornets and Sac, But since the Cavs aren't known for offense, Wag is left behind.
Regardless, it's not a great sign when you can name the number of teams a player "may" succeed with on one hand.
There is no way Wagner would be starting for the Kings. If a guy was good enough to start for the best team in basketball, I would think he could find more minutes on a team well below .500.
I can only partially give witness to that remark. Certain players can break through on any team, yet tweeners and undersized players need the right system and the right team. It's not an insult to say a player needs a certain system or situation to succeed. I could fill the page with players on teams or facing situations for the time being that limit growth. Rather than bash a player, patience, the virtue of the wise, is needed here.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting redscoon:</div><div class="quote_post">There is no way Wagner would be starting for the Kings. If a guy was good enough to start for the best team in basketball, I would think he could find more minutes on a team well below .500.</div> This has nothing to do with a team's ranking. It is a matter of style. Bibby/Jackson is essentially 2 PG's on the court at the same time. If you had Bibby/Wagner you have a PG/SG mix while still employing Alderman's beloved tactic of small ball. From a standpoint of logic alone, it could work out.
Where was Wagner bashed? Stating that he is undersized, a bad defender, and a poor passer isn't bashing, it's simply stating the truth.
The joke about giving him to the Hawks was rather low ball humor, if you follow me. It's simply impatient behavior, if you ask me. Adding his career games up, he's still very much a rookie. Young players usually get a 3 year curve of patience. To jump the gun any sooner than that is simply illogical.
What's the big issue about Wagner being a scoring point guard? Plenty of star point guards in this league were shooting guards prior to making the switch, it simply takes time to adjust to that postion. Gilbert Arenas for example. He played shooting guard at The University of Arizona and left early to enter the NBA. When he arrived in Golden State he was moved down to playing point guard. In his first season he averaged just 10 points per game to go along with about 3 and a half assists in just 24 minutes. Wagner's situation is very similar, he played shooting guard at Memphis, left school early and was forced to make the adjustment. Last season, Wagner averagd less than 30 minutes of play and he was good for 13.5 points per game along with 3 assists. Sound familar? What's the difference? Gilbert was given more time to adjust to the new postion, no rookie with limited college expierence is going to be able to switch postions and be successful in JUST one season. It's an adjustment that takes time, in Gilbert's situation time was the key. This season, and last season for that matter, Gilbert has been lighting it up, averaging 19 points, 5 assists, and 5 rebounds a game. This could have been the same outcome for Dajuan Wagner. He showed the potential, he showed the promise, yet he wasn't given the time because he was replaced while on the injuried reserved. He didn't draw positive comparisons to Allen Iverson for nothing...
Since Wagner has only played in 76 games, I shall wait. Players who are considered 3rd year players in my book have played in 200-246 games. Once Wagner gets close to his 200th game, that's when it's put up or shut up time for him. If Dajuan is hitting his stride, great, a little patience went a long way. And even if he doesn't hit his stride, at least he was given a chance and then Cleveland could move on. I always thought bench players should be percentage players, like pure shooters. Rhythmic players who are volume shooters, usually take longer to develop that swagger than a pure dead eye bomber. From what Silas says, Wagner is cursed in the old phrase "great practice player." Paul keeps saying Dajuan eats everybody alive in practice because he is "unguardable one-on-one" yet this practice play has not translated yet to a game. So the big wait remains: when will the game situation seem like a practice situation to Dajuan, so he can cut loose? There is good and bad to be taken from this. Starting with the good, Coach Silas and the players believe in Dajuan. From all accounts, the talent is there. That's a good thing because if the talent simply was not there, then as a team you're effectively screwed. The bad is now you have a project player on your hands. Silas even called Dajuan a project saying it would take a few years. So I'm putting Wagner to the clock and remaining patient. That's all I can do.
Since high school, Wagner has yet to be a productive player. When some of you say that he could be productive in another system, you're going by what, his shooting %? Is shooting ability, alone, what defines greatness in a player, or isn't this slightly one dimensional, even for a shooting guard? What makes a shooting guard valuable, IMO, is one's overall ability to produce and defend, which wouldn't rank Wagner very high. Considering his overall limitations, it would take quite a considerable leap in shooting %, or PPS, for him to overcome his other faults. He shot 41% in college, and so far, well under 40% during two partial seasons in the NBA. I think we can all agree, that Wagner has a long, long way to go to reach his early projections, which made him a top 6 pick.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James X3:</div><div class="quote_post"> This season, and last season for that matter, Gilbert has been lighting it up, averaging 19 points, 5 assists, and 5 rebounds a game. This could have been the same outcome for Dajuan Wagner. He showed the potential, he showed the promise, yet he wasn't given the time because he was replaced while on the injuried reserved. He didn't draw positive comparisons to Allen Iverson for nothing...</div> Wagner averaged 13 points on a very bad 36% shooting. Big deal... anyone can score 13 PPG if they have a green light to take as many shots as they want (as Wagner did when Lucas was the coach). As for rebounds and assists, if you average 3 or fewer of each in college, most likely you will average even LESS in the pros. Wagner will never be worthy of a top 5 pick.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What's the big issue about Wagner being a scoring point guard? </div> Wagner simply can't bring the ball up against the faster defenders. His point guard skills are extremely lacking, even when compared to the average NBA scoring point guard. The benefit just doesn't make up for the baggage he brings. LeBron is a much better point guard than Wagner, but you'll notice how the team has performed much better behind a true point guard. McInnis played some shooting guard before coming to Cleveland, so his shot has suffered as a result, now that he's stuck having to create more for himself. Can you imagine Wagner having to create for himself? You're basically looking at McInnis, minus the assists. That begs the question, how does Wagner at PG improve this team exactly? Wagner's greatest asset is at shooting guard, but until he can improve his jump shot, defense, and ability to penetrate from both sides of the ball, his usefulness will be limited.
What Sky and CBBI say on Wagner is pretty much fact until he proves us wrong! Everyone can see the natural talent, but it is currently overshadowed by his weaknesses, which show no signs of improving. A healthy offseason may get him on track to being a contributor, but he has alot of work ahead of him!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CBBI:</div><div class="quote_post">Wagner averaged 13 points on a very bad 36% shooting. Big deal... anyone can score 13 PPG if they have a green light to take as many shots as they want (as Wagner did when Lucas was the coach). As for rebounds and assists, if you average 3 or fewer of each in college, most likely you will average even LESS in the pros. Wagner will never be worthy of a top 5 pick.</div> Wagner was averaging 17.9 at one point. Once he got injured, combined with receiving much less playing time towards the end, his average fell to 13. The way I look at it, he underachieved and it was unfortunate. The last month or so he played, he was limping but didn't tell team doctors and tried playing with the injury. Again, before championing a great destiny or predicting to curse Wagner to a poor future, simply let time tell the tale. He's an engima either way, not an easy case to call. So let's wait and see.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What's the big issue about Wagner being a scoring point guard? </div> The issue is that Wagner <u>DOES NOT</u> want to play point guard.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr_Infante:</div><div class="quote_post">The issue is that Wagner <u>DOES NOT</u> want to play point guard.</div> Bingo! The ironic thing is one day, he'll be forced to learn PG skills as he gets older. Even if you're as talented as Iverson, even he is being more of a PG lately. Even the ultra skilled undersized SG's tend to only delay the inevitable.
Whats with people wanting to see Wagner playing pg? He CANT do it people. Lucas has tried and it didn't work. If someone doesn't want to do something they aren't going to try to improve it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting West Remy:</div><div class="quote_post">Bingo! The ironic thing is one day, he'll be forced to learn PG skills as he gets older. Even if you're as talented as Iverson, even he is being more of a PG lately. Even the ultra skilled undersized SG's tend to only delay the inevitable.</div> Unfortunately he is not Iverson, and he doesn't have the luxury of delaying the inevitable. He needs to work on his ball handling so he at least competent at bringing the ball up the floor! Right now, that seems beyond him. I cant believe a guy struggling to crack the rotation is too stubborn to learn new tricks to help his career! Very worrying part of his attitude!
I disagree, Wagner has some handles, and he can take it upcourt. He just doesn't have court vision or any playmaking skills.
