<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr_Infante:</div><div class="quote_post">I disagree, Wagner has some handles, and he can take it upcourt. He just doesn't have court vision or any playmaking skills.</div> If Wagner improves his left hand, he'll be one wicked dribbler for sure. But you're right, court vision and playmaking skills can be learned, but they're also part instinct. Wagner would have to change his approach to the game, and think more like a PG.
When pressured Wagner tends to lose control, of where others are on court and seems to push further into trouble. That is what I meant Mr_Infante!
I believe what Karma meant by Wagner being "at least competent at bringing the ball up the floor," is the ability to keep from getting yanked to the bench when he has someone like Darrell Armstrong guarding him and poking the ball away repeatedly, as was the case last season against Orlando.
[quote name='West Remy']Wagner was averaging 17.9 at one point. QUOTE] You mean in his first 10 games where Lucas told him to go out there sling it everytime he touched it? The league caught on real quick of two things about Wagner. 1. He couldn't shoot it with range. 2. He couldn't go to his left. Once they solved that problem, he was turned into a guy who had to shoot it over 20 times just to get to his 13 PPG average. Look.... I don't hate the kid. I want him to prove me wrong. However, by observing what he can (and can't) do and observing the kinds of players we have in front of him (see: James, LeBron), I have to think that he is going to struggle to be anything more then a productive bench player.
Yeah I do notice he tends to lose it under pressure. Often causes a turnover. BTW: Yeah Wagner was up to 17 ppg but who else was going to do it last year besides Ricky Davis?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr_Infante:</div><div class="quote_post">I disagree, Wagner has some handles, and he can take it upcourt. He just doesn't have court vision or any playmaking skills.</div> Actually, if there is on ball pressure (like what Tony Parker and Darrell Armstrong often do) for the entire length of the floor, Wagner struggles with even getting the ball past the midcourt line and initiating the offense.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CBBI:</div><div class="quote_post">[quote name='West Remy']Wagner was averaging 17.9 at one point. QUOTE] You mean in his first 10 games where Lucas told him to go out there sling it everytime he touched it? The league caught on real quick of two things about Wagner. 1. He couldn't shoot it with range. 2. He couldn't go to his left. Once they solved that problem, he was turned into a guy who had to shoot it over 20 times just to get to his 13 PPG average. Look.... I don't hate the kid. I want him to prove me wrong. However, by observing what he can (and can't) do and observing the kinds of players we have in front of him (see: James, LeBron), I have to think that he is going to struggle to be anything more then a productive bench player.</div> I think Wagner's injury and reduced playing time, hurt as much as teams implementing new defensive strategies to contain him. They definately got his number but I could tell once Wagner could no longer dunk because he had no lift (no dunks towards the end, he could only lay up) and once his speed took a hit, he was also fighting himself every bit as much as the other team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr_Infante:</div><div class="quote_post">Wagner threw down a dunk against the Hawks.</div> Yeah he threw one down this year agains the Hawks. I was happy to see it, to be honest. Towards the end of last season, he would have been lucky to be able to hang on the rim with 2 hands.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting KarmaCav:</div><div class="quote_post">Hopefully we will be up 20+ in the 4th so that Wags can get some minutes and get some confidense up.</div> I also hope the Cavaliers blow somebody out so that Kapono can get some minutes off the bench too.
Dajuan was averaging 17.9 ppg on 12/29/02. He was shooting only .366 from the floor, however, which was too low to warrant the number of shot opportunities he was receiving.
I think Wagner will be a starter after this season, or even in the play offs. This guy is small but he manages to score. Correction: he averaged 13.4ppg in his rookie season. This guy does deserve more minutes.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CBBI:</div><div class="quote_post">Wagner averaged 13 points on a very bad 36% shooting. Big deal... anyone can score 13 PPG if they have a green light to take as many shots as they want (as Wagner did when Lucas was the coach).</div> He averaged 37 percent from the field last season, is that a huge drop off compared to say Steve Francis who's averaging just about 39% from the field this season? Two percent, between a guy who you claim is a very bad shooter and I guy who is an ALLSTAR! What's two percent? One less shot made every 2 games perhaps? Not that big of a difference, not to mention Wager was just a rookie who left Memphis after just one season and Steve Francis is an established ALLSTAR who has several seasons under his belt. Other people shoot quite similar to Wagner's field goal percentage as well, Allen Iverson at just 39%, Baron Davis at just 39%, Jason Kidd at just 39%, and the list goes on and on. Seriously, two percent less isn't that big of a difference...
Whats the point of that? It still doesn't prove your point that he should be a point guard. Lets see some facts on that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James X3:</div><div class="quote_post">He averaged 37 percent from the field last season, is that a huge drop off compared to say Steve Francis who's averaging just about 39% from the field this season? Two percent, between a guy who you claim is a very bad shooter and I guy who is an ALLSTAR! What's two percent? One less shot made every 2 games perhaps? Not that big of a difference, not to mention Wager was just a rookie who left Memphis after just one season and Steve Francis is an established ALLSTAR who has several seasons under his belt. Other people shoot quite similar to Wagner's field goal percentage as well, Allen Iverson at just 39%, Baron Davis at just 39%, Jason Kidd at just 39%, and the list goes on and on. Seriously, two percent less isn't that big of a difference...</div> The difference isn't the shooting percentage! *Its the non existant defense *Cant dribble to his left *Undersized yet with no point guard skills *The players you name involve other players in the offence! With Wags, it 1 on 5!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting King James X3:</div><div class="quote_post">He averaged 37 percent from the field last season, is that a huge drop off compared to say Steve Francis who's averaging just about 39% from the field this season? Two percent, between a guy who you claim is a very bad shooter and I guy who is an ALLSTAR! What's two percent? One less shot made every 2 games perhaps? Not that big of a difference, not to mention Wager was just a rookie who left Memphis after just one season and Steve Francis is an established ALLSTAR who has several seasons under his belt. Other people shoot quite similar to Wagner's field goal percentage as well, Allen Iverson at just 39%, Baron Davis at just 39%, Jason Kidd at just 39%, and the list goes on and on. Seriously, two percent less isn't that big of a difference...</div> Give me a break.... those guys make up for their shooting %s by playing defense, rebounding, dishing out assists. Plus they can all go left.
Wagner is a benchrider till he can do all those things we keep listing! 1. Defend 2. Dribble both ways 3. Realise he has teammates 4. Control his game by not forcing shots 5. Stop reaching in for dumb fouls etc.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting KarmaCav:</div><div class="quote_post"> I cant believe a guy struggling to crack the rotation is too stubborn to learn new tricks to help his career! Very worrying part of his attitude!</div> Honest question......when did Wagner ever refuse to play PG, I don't recall this. When did I miss this?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting HardCore_BOozer:</div><div class="quote_post">Honest question......when did Wagner ever refuse to play PG, I don't recall this. When did I miss this?</div> Cant pin a time to it, but others may help with that. But Silas had asked Wagner about trying some time at the point, which he voiced his disapproval! Not 100% on the details, but that just about sums it up!
