Politics Wake Up Democrats! You are about to be Taxed!

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by MarAzul, Feb 6, 2015.

  1. MickZagger

    MickZagger Well-Known Member

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  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  3. PtldPlatypus

    PtldPlatypus Let's go Baby Blazers! Staff Member Global Moderator Moderator

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    Geez--I'm clearly in the wrong line of work.
     
  4. jlprk

    jlprk The ESPN mod is insane.

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    This is great, having you conservatives on board. With all this unhypocritical unity, we'll stop all this deficit spending on war, defense, spying, police, and protection of rich people in no time.
     
  5. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    On Sundays they get double time pay, too.

    But I think that's factored into the average salary. Though many of the workers make lawyer wages. $hundreds/hour.
     
  6. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    I work in education and am an OSEA union member. Education is affected by taxes and govt policy Denny. I know a lot of teachers and educators who go the extra mile for Oregon kids all the time. The education system isn't perfect but if you think teachers are profiting too much and kids are losing out, you haven't walked the walk in Oregon. It's not the fault of the teachers unions but I do see a lot of apathetic parenting that loves to use teachers as scapegoats. Now paying failed CEOs 400 million bucks to leave after failing at the job...that's a travesty. You do realize how much teachers are paid and what PERS adds up to after 20 years of service? It's not much. Is there waste in the tax system? Yes. Teachers are the last place I look to blame for that.
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I think the proof is in the results, no matter how busy the teachers make themselves out to be.

    You can start by telling me how hard it is to fire a shitty teacher.

    Or by how easy it is for a child from the inner city to go to a quality school (public or private).
     
  8. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    First of all, any resident in a tax district is eligible to go to any public school. I raised a child through the Oregon public school system and he thrived. Have you raised a child in Oregon? You can bitch about that "shitty teacher" and I've seen them fired, but you are selling some really great teachers short.
     
  9. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    More from that link

    upload_2015-2-10_10-9-12.png

    35% proficiency in math and 36% in reading? Those teachers are kicking ass!

    Sorry man, but for top dollar I want something much better than a 65% failure rate. I could care less how much the teachers get paid, it sure looks like there's plenty of money to go around.

    A little back of the envelope calculation:

    40 kids per home room (class rooms are overcrowded!) x $10,000 per student in spending = $400K.

    Pay the teacher $100K and there's $300K left to pay for all the overhead, rent, upkeep, books, and so on.

    Still works out with 30 kids per home room.
     
  11. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    The intangible here is the lack of a stat for apathetic parenting. I taught for 2 decades in a college in Taiwan and they are a stunning example of parent involvement in the education of their children. The children here who have parents involved in their education usually thrive and the best students I've known came from poorer backgrounds and loved school. In Taiwan teachers are highly respected, have a national holiday to honor them and kids I've taught still keep in touch decades later. I taught in Hawaii where you did more damage control than educating because of bullying. Oregon is a decent place to send your kid to school. This culture is entertainment obsessed and DVD circulation far exceeds book checkouts at the local library. There are many factors that graphs just don't point out. My son went to university on his grades, not his economic advantages. My wife and I got up and reviewed material for his tests with him before school and made sure he could read and write well. The government or school systems are not babysitters responsible for the character and ambitions of your children. Parents have dropped the ball in most cases.
     
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    All you're proving is that, anecdotally, a child of teachers can do well if taught at home for enough hours.

    I'm not against teachers. As I wrote above, I'd pay them highly to attract really good ones.

    What I am against is poor results for high expense and people standing in the way of changing things for the better. $10 for $1 worth of service, indeed.

    I also find it ridiculous that there are public unions of any kind. On the face of it, you have partisans collecting dues from tax payer paid salaries to elect the people they negotiate contracts with.
     
  13. riverman

    riverman Writing Team

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    I'm not proving anything but I am experienced in the world of education in 2 countries, one at the top of the academic achievement and one here at home. My experience is demonstrable. Schools are different. If you have the money, you can send your child to a Montessori school or private school and pay for a different approach. I couldn't afford it. My wife is not a teacher. Many parents involved in their childrens lessons and knowledge are not teachers. I too want to see teachers paid more. Let's start with math, science, engineering scholarship money that takes priority over sports scholarships. The amount of money given to universities to draft athletes is unheard of in a place like Taiwan. Taiwan finances their education system with a simple sales tax. I'm no genius but it baffles me we don't do that here.
     
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    The problem isn't a lack of funding. We're spending on par with the 27 nations and they get better results.

    You want parents involved yet in most places they have no real choices so of course they're not involved.

    A choice of a handful of crappy public schools is no choice.
     
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    BTW, found this interesting tidbit about oregon schools:

    http://www.politifact.com/oregon/st...regon-rank-49th-nation-its-high-school-gradu/

    The results, from the high school class of 2012, taken from the 2011-12 school year, showed Oregon’s rate above only Nevada’s when it came to our "regulatory adjusted cohort graduation rate"; that is, the percentage of students who entered the ninth grade in 2008-09 and graduated on time four years later in June 2012.

    The numbers came from the U.S. Department of Education’s second-ever compilation of comparable state-by-state graduation rates.

    For 2012, the numbers show, Nevada ranked dead last, at 63 percent, with Oregon next-worst, at 68 percent.
     
  16. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Let us not lose sight of the ball here, this carbon tax has no real world purpose defined.

    I have known some great teachers; Darrell Crossler,middle school name in his honor in Salem, Don McCluskey of Rex Putnam, Russ Shoemaker of West Linn.
    And more, great people and they all never fail to approve of a new tax. All these great guy are retired now except Darrell, he passed on. When we were younger
    each groused a bit about their pay, one of them bought a car I no longer needed with the lament, I wish I could afford a new one.
    Now that they are retired, I think their true pay is now apparent. I'll add my own brother inlaw to the group, a retired professor, Dr Gary of the U of Illinois.
    Each of these retired educators collect a defined retirement plan check every month. Defined benefit plans are about extinct in the private sector, but I do know
    a few people collecting today, including myself, retired from IBM. I do not know a person anywhere collecting on a retirement check from a private company
    that is even near the amount paid to these retired teachers. The teacher collect between 4 to 6 times what any of the private defined benefit retirement plans pay.
    There will be no comparison at all when the current private plans run their course. People do not get these pension plans anymore, except in government or
    the teachers union.

    I don't know how long the average dumb Joe can keep this up, but he sure as hell doesn't need a carbon tax hung on his harness to go with the already heavy
    burden.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
  17. BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94

    BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 AWOL

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    I can comment on teachers in Oregon, having gone to a shitty school (McKay in Salem) that we had some of the worst teachers ever in terms of actual teaching ability. A lot of them were good people but a lot of them were either ideological or just didn't take the time to explain the curriculum without getting frustrated.

    Idk what the solution would be to do this but my guess would be higher wages (by relocating funding) maybe to give them incentive to be better at their jobs.
     
  18. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Ha ha ha.

    Someones is very no goodly with the math-type thingy.

    barfo
     
  19. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    This is really an odd comment. In the last 3 of 5 wars the U.S. has been a part of, a democratic presidency was leading the country. WW2, Korean, Vietnam
     
  20. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    The error hardly alters the point, heh!
     

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