<div class="quote_poster">AlleyOop Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">That would make sense. Foyle has two years left on his deal, although he has a "team option" in 2009-2010 for $10 mils, so if he keeps playing out of his gourd GS might be forced to make the offer and retain his services But my question is: How does one assess the value of a draft pick? Like, you can't trade a $4 mils contract for a $9 mils contract, you have to get within 25% or something. But with a draft pick, can you trade a $5 mils contract for a #9 pick straight up, for instance? Or, can you trade Foyle($9 mils) + #18 pick for #48 pick + ($5 mils contract) ?</div> From my understanding, they don't carry any money value until he signs an actual contract. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">71. How are draft picks handled in trades? Draft picks (both first and second round) count $0 for salary matching purposes. This is true both before and after the draft, until the player signs a contract. This can make it very difficult to construct a trade that is equitable in both trade value and basketball talent. For example, Vancouver selected Steve Francis with the #2 pick in the 1999 draft, and traded his draft rights to Houston. When the trade was finally engineered, it included three teams (Orlando was also involved), 11 players (including Francis) and two future draft picks. Once the draft pick signs a contract, his actual salary becomes his trade value. Note that even though a draft pick's trade value (for salary matching purposes) is $0, a first round pick is included in the team's team salary at 100% of his scale amount once he is selected in the draft, unless he signs with a non-NBA team (see question number 41). If an unsigned first round draft pick is traded, then 100% of his scale amount is included in the acquiring team's team salary as soon as the trade is completed. An unsigned second round pick does not count toward team salary.</div> Source: Larry Coon If you need help deciphering that, wait for Zhone to chime in.
<div class="quote_poster">J_Ray Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't see how another Troy Murphy type player will be any different from when they had the original version I think the Warriors should look at getting a swingman, Bellinelli or Rudy Fernandez with their 1st rounder, then in the 2nd they should look to get big men. The quality of the big men in the 2nd fit the W's system much better than McRoberts, Gray, and Jason Smith. They could land Sean Williams/or DeVon Hardin for the shotblocking C and a Herbert Hill/or Lasme who can be the C with small lineups.</div> That's what I'm saying. Sure, a Troy Murphy guy is very serviceable off the bench, but when GMs start getting ideas that these types are starters that will hold the other team's power forward and center in check and also help out weakside on D, forget about it! The power forward alos has to score inside too instead we got these types getting further and further away from the basket because the coaches tell them not to embarass themselves by getting swatted by a 6'4 player. I also agree that the Warriors need more swingmen so that if there is a "can't miss deal" out there that does involve Jrich or Sjax, it won't be a huge blow to chemistry. We're talking adding a prospect that can be a pure triple threat with enough defense to protect the team. I want the guy to be like a Brandon Roy or a Joe Johnson. The swingman doesn't have to be superfreak jawdropping athlete, but has to play with some above-the-rim style of play and has quickness and smooth silky ballhandling control. Also, like any other position on the perimeter, they need to shoot. PERIOD. None of this stuff where they miss open shots constantly or they can't hit the open ones standing at the charity stripe. Watching both Dun and Pietrus (and sometimes Jrich) over the years has made me Puke when it comes to shooting.
Here's my 2 cents on the draft. We need to go big big big! We have exactly ONE legit big on the roster. We desperately need more athletic bigs who can run, rebound, maybe play some D, catch and finish. Not a hell of alot to ask in this deep draft. Jason Smith, Tiago Splitter or (uggh) Sean Williams with the first pick and Herbert Hill with the second pick. I'm so psyched on Hill that I'd trade both of our seconds to move up a bit and be sure we get him. I know we have other concerns, but we're so ridiculously thin on the front line that nothing else makes sense to me. <mike myers>Talk amongst yourselves</mike myers>
following up on this, some of you have expressed a desire to draft a PG as a backup/successor to Baron. And I hear that. My thought is that Monta made big strides as a PG in the second half of the season. He really improved his assist/turnover ratio, which said to me that he was improving his decision making. So I'm of a mind to give him another year to keep working at it. Let's keep in mind that Billups (a very high draft pick combo guard) took a number of years to develop into an elite PG, and Monta is still only 21-22 years old. Huge potential for development.
<div class="quote_poster">DTKennedy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">following up on this, some of you have expressed a desire to draft a PG as a backup/successor to Baron. And I hear that. My thought is that Monta made big strides as a PG in the second half of the season. He really improved his assist/turnover ratio, which said to me that he was improving his decision making. So I'm of a mind to give him another year to keep working at it. Let's keep in mind that Billups (a very high draft pick combo guard) took a number of years to develop into an elite PG, and Monta is still only 21-22 years old. Huge potential for development.</div> What veteran bigs would you like if we can't get any in the draft? One of the things I don't like about some college bigs is they may not be ready to contribute right away (as in the case if we get Yi or maybe some other prospect). I'm almost thinking we should get a guy like Etan Thomas or Jeff Foster or some guy that will be an ex-factor on the glass and not suck on defense like Troy Murphy did. I wouldn't mind Reggie Evans if he can control the glass. We just have to get a big time rebounder that doesn't suck at defense like Troy Murphy did. Maybe we need a good out of position rebounder since the set guys tend to be caught flat footed a lot on team defense. Or maybe that's just slow and lazy guys. Heh.
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What veteran bigs would you like if we can't get any in the draft? One of the things I don't like about some college bigs is they may not be ready to contribute right away (as in the case if we get Yi or maybe some other prospect). I'm almost thinking we should get a guy like Etan Thomas or Jeff Foster or some guy that will be an ex-factor on the glass and not suck on defense like Troy Murphy did. I wouldn't mind Reggie Evans if he can control the glass. We just have to get a big time rebounder that doesn't suck at defense like Troy Murphy did. Maybe we need a good out of position rebounder since the set guys tend to be caught flat footed a lot on team defense. Or maybe that's just slow and lazy guys. Heh.</div> CR2, I think odds are slim that we won't get any in the draft. I firmly believe 1 will be available and I'd lay better than 50/50 that 2 of the 4 guys i mentioned will be there in our draft slots. To answer your question, I'd kill for Camby (athletic reboundin' fool and massive shot blocker) and i'd like AK as well (doesn't really help the rebounding problem much but an athletic DPOY candidate).
<div class="quote_poster">DTKennedy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">CR2, I think odds are slim that we won't get any in the draft. I firmly believe 1 will be available and I'd lay better than 50/50 that 2 of the 4 guys i mentioned will be there in our draft slots. To answer your question, I'd kill for Camby (athletic reboundin' fool and massive shot blocker) and i'd like AK as well (doesn't really help the rebounding problem much but an athletic DPOY candidate).</div> My feelings exactly. I'm hoping for a swingman or a tall combo guard instead. I'm curious about the Euro players, but I want an attack off the dribble kind of guy and so far the only guy that fits the bill is 6'5" Rudy Fernandez. But... the guy weighs less than your average 5'11" guard. I think being so underweight won't cut it in the league. At best we could be looking at a Jamaal Crawford type guy if he's at least strong for his amount of bulk. But I guess it's a gamble we have to take. I figure if Tayshaun Prince, Andrei Kirilenko, or Chris Bosh can play well despite being severely underweight, it might not be that bad. For rebounding help, maybe it's possible to go after Shelden Williams if the Hawks have given up on him a bit. He's a little small for center, but he's got the shoulders and leg strength to bang and he's got long arms and good hands. The other guy that interests me is Darko Milicic simply because he's a skilled player for a guy that big. But... can he bring it every night and improve to fit his 2nd overall pick selection? Probably not, but worth a shot anyway if he can be landed cheaply. The other guys I like are Sean May and Jason Maxiel and Kenny Thomas. If we want anyone bigger, it'll cost us more unfortunately...
What about Acie law at 18 if he is still there? It seems like he would fit pretty well in your system. You may not need another combo guard, but he could end up helping out quite a bit his first year imo
<div class="quote_poster">TheFreshPrince Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What about Acie law at 18 if he is still there? It seems like he would fit pretty well in your system. You may not need another combo guard, but he could end up helping out quite a bit his first year imo</div> I'm not sure... I thought I remembered some draftnicks were saying Randy Foye could take ROY. I had Brandon Roy pegged since he was the most ready without the question marks of guys like Adam Morrison (who I also liked, but hated his athleticism) and LaMarcus Aldridge (who I also liked, but was too weak and inexperienced). But 4 year college players definitely have the advantage if they've got the body and the shot touch for the game.
Man, I might be totally off the Thad Young bandwagon. I don't think he has a true position and he might not fit or even be close to how Rudy Gay and Josh Smith were viewed by some analysts. I don't think Thad Young is ready and he could prove to be the next Pietrus in some facets of the game. I am however, officially back on the Tiago Splitter Bandwagon. He could actually be a lesser dunking/lesser shotblocking/better boxing out version of Biedrins, but he could be a decent guy to develop as a tall power forward since he has more of a face-up game than Beans. He would be the most versatile in Don Nelson's lineup should Nelson return as head coach since he could play a PF or a C. Also, he could play halfcourt style and have more freedom to shoot instead of pass. Plus, let's not forget he can use both hands to score the ball and he has great lateral quickness for his size. He could be more of a position defense type of guy than weakside defender, but I'm sure he can be improved to do whatever is necessary for the team. Don't forget high basketball IQ, high level play experience, and he's athletic (although not as strong or above-the-rim as we'd like a post player to be). Even if he was like a Chris Mihm, that's still decent for #18 and considering our crappy depth for nba ready big men.
I agree but only if we can be sure he will come to the NBA now. I was all for the Warriors getting Fran Vasquez a couple years back and he ended up being a complete waste for Orlando. But I do think Splitter can have an immediate impact and still has a decent ceiling. If everything works out and we can get him, I hope Nelson plays him with Andris. Those two could be quite a defensive, rebounding duo.
<div class="quote_poster">ryanfish Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I agree but only if we can be sure he will come to the NBA now. I was all for the Warriors getting Fran Vasquez a couple years back and he ended up being a complete waste for Orlando. But I do think Splitter can have an immediate impact and still has a decent ceiling. If everything works out and we can get him, I hope Nelson plays him with Andris. Those two could be quite a defensive, rebounding duo.</div> I think if we picked Splitter, we'd have to buy out the remainder of his current team's deal, whereas with Orlando they drafted a guy who ended up re-signing with a Euro team. If Vasquez ever does go to the nba, he could back up Howard pretty nicely or even play the power forward spot. Plain and simple Vasquez just pussed out. I don't think Splitter would have cold feet, he just wants to be in the right situation in the nba and most teams don't want to pay extra money to release him. But then again I don't know. It seems like he's doing well in Europe, but he's got his own personal goal to play for an nba team. Hey does anyone want Mustafa Shakur? He could be our final pick a la Chris Taft (a widely scouted high school player, ending up being a mediocre college player). The way I see it is if Baron Davis screws up something in his back or his leg, we've got Ellis and another quick ballhandler who can make some plays. Drive and dish could be his game and he's pretty good at the foul line. Can steal the ball and rebound.
<div class="quote_poster">DTKennedy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">following up on this, some of you have expressed a desire to draft a PG as a backup/successor to Baron. And I hear that. My thought is that Monta made big strides as a PG in the second half of the season. He really improved his assist/turnover ratio, which said to me that he was improving his decision making. So I'm of a mind to give him another year to keep working at it. Let's keep in mind that Billups (a very high draft pick combo guard) took a number of years to develop into an elite PG, and Monta is still only 21-22 years old. Huge potential for development.</div> I agree that Monta Ellis made some strides as PG. He was very strong in that Clippers game, I think possibly the last one vs. LAC this season. I also remember that the Warriors had two of their best games of the season early on when Baron was on the bench with an injury where the Warriors beat Utah and San Antonio. However in the playoffs it seemed pretty evident that right now Monta Ellis isn't a PG able to command the team or take care of possessions (mostly by avoiding commiting charges and other turnovers and violations). I am not suggesting the Warriors draft a PG in the first round or with the second pick. But perhaps they can bring in someone with their third pick or through free agency after the draft to challenge for a spot on the roster to help out that position. My only suggestion is that the Warriors take the best player available with their first round draft pick. I like what I hear and saw from Rudy Fernandez. However I don't know if he's necessarly the BPA, mostly because I haven't been studying the mockdrafts or watched much college ball this year outside of Long Beach State (which meant seeing Law and that Tennessee team rip aprat my team...). I also wouldn't mind drafting that young Fin PG, especially in the second round.
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think if we picked Splitter, we'd have to buy out the remainder of his current team's deal, whereas with Orlando they drafted a guy who ended up re-signing with a Euro team. If Vasquez ever does go to the nba, he could back up Howard pretty nicely or even play the power forward spot. Plain and simple Vasquez just pussed out. I don't think Splitter would have cold feet, he just wants to be in the right situation in the nba and most teams don't want to pay extra money to release him. But then again I don't know. It seems like he's doing well in Europe, but he's got his own personal goal to play for an nba team.</div> (This is a little off topic) That tid-bit about Vasquez shows how much horrible luck that Orlando team has had. First with what this draft pick did, and then just recently with Billy Donovan. That's incredible, that those two moves happened to the same team. However Stan Van Gundy isn't so bad, or at least he wasn't so bad as head coach with Miami. I did lose respect for Billy Donovan however (now I am going way off topic...).
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think if we picked Splitter, we'd have to buy out the remainder of his current team's deal, whereas with Orlando they drafted a guy who ended up re-signing with a Euro team. If Vasquez ever does go to the nba, he could back up Howard pretty nicely or even play the power forward spot. Plain and simple Vasquez just pussed out. I don't think Splitter would have cold feet, he just wants to be in the right situation in the nba and most teams don't want to pay extra money to release him. But then again I don't know. It seems like he's doing well in Europe, but he's got his own personal goal to play for an nba team.</div> I believe the maximum an NBA team can contribute to a foriegn player's buyout is $250,000 (if it's not $250,000, it's $500,000). This is why you hear euros saying they need a guarantee to be picked no lower than X spot. If the money they make in the first year of their deal isn't enough to pay off the rest of the buyout, then they can't come over until the buyout is lowered or the contract expires.
<div class="quote_poster">Clif25 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">(This is a little off topic) That tid-bit about Vasquez shows how much horrible luck that Orlando team has had. First with what this draft pick did, and then just recently with Billy Donovan. That's incredible, that those two moves happened to the same team. However Stan Van Gundy isn't so bad, or at least he wasn't so bad as head coach with Miami. I did lose respect for Billy Donovan however (now I am going way off topic...).</div> The Magic can't complain too much though. They got a rare talented big man in Dwight Howard. Plus, they got something of a steal in Jameer Nelson who probably should have gone higher in the draft. <div class="quote_poster">wtwalker77 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I believe the maximum an NBA team can contribute to a foriegn player's buyout is $250,000 (if it's not $250,000, it's $500,000). This is why you hear euros saying they need a guarantee to be picked no lower than X spot. If the money they make in the first year of their deal isn't enough to pay off the rest of the buyout, then they can't come over until the buyout is lowered or the contract expires.</div> Oh yeah that's right. The player has to foot the rest of the bill or something like that. Good call!
<div class="quote_poster">Clif25 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I agree that Monta Ellis made some strides as PG. He was very strong in that Clippers game, I think possibly the last one vs. LAC this season. I also remember that the Warriors had two of their best games of the season early on when Baron was on the bench with an injury where the Warriors beat Utah and San Antonio. However in the playoffs it seemed pretty evident that right now Monta Ellis isn't a PG able to command the team or take care of possessions (mostly by avoiding commiting charges and other turnovers and violations). I am not suggesting the Warriors draft a PG in the first round or with the second pick. But perhaps they can bring in someone with their third pick or through free agency after the draft to challenge for a spot on the roster to help out that position. My only suggestion is that the Warriors take the best player available with their first round draft pick. I like what I hear and saw from Rudy Fernandez. However I don't know if he's necessarly the BPA, mostly because I haven't been studying the mockdrafts or watched much college ball this year outside of Long Beach State (which meant seeing Law and that Tennessee team rip aprat my team...). I also wouldn't mind drafting that young Fin PG, especially in the second round.</div> The only thing i'd really modify from what you said is that I think the W's need to pick the best BIG available. Otherwise, I pretty much agree. I like your thought of bringing in a PG through free agency. I thought Cabbage would help, but obviously that's not the case. We're just so ridiculously thin on bigs that i just can't understand drafting anything else but bigs this year. edit: clif, i think that monta is ready to contribute 10-15 quality minutes as the backup PG..at least in the regular season. point well taken regarding his ineffectiveness in the postseason. but he's still so young and gifted (and apparently coachable) that i think he still could be Baron's successor.
<div class="quote_poster">wtwalker77 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I believe the maximum an NBA team can contribute to a foriegn player's buyout is $250,000 (if it's not $250,000, it's $500,000). This is why you hear euros saying they need a guarantee to be picked no lower than X spot. If the money they make in the first year of their deal isn't enough to pay off the rest of the buyout, then they can't come over until the buyout is lowered or the contract expires.</div> I didnt know that, but it makes sense. But, can't an NBA team just guve that player like Fran a personal gift of cash that covers the rest of his contract costs. I mean this isn't the NCAA. I thought that NBA teams can do whatever they want in this sense.
<div class="quote_poster">DTKennedy Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">The only thing i'd really modify from what you said is that I think the W's need to pick the best BIG available. Otherwise, I pretty much agree. I like your thought of bringing in a PG through free agency. I thought Cabbage would help, but obviously that's not the case. We're just so ridiculously thin on bigs that i just can't understand drafting anything else but bigs this year. edit: clif, i think that monta is ready to contribute 10-15 quality minutes as the backup PG..at least in the regular season. point well taken regarding his ineffectiveness in the postseason. but he's still so young and gifted (and apparently coachable) that i think he still could be Baron's successor.</div> You may be correct about the Warriors going after a big. I am still in the minority by mostly holding my breath on Patrick O'Bryant and even over the possibility of Kosta Perovic from last year's draft. The Warriors will still have Foyle and even possibly Powell if they elect to re-sign him. Also with Don Nelson as head coach you can't just add any big and still remain certain that Nelson will decide to play him. Fortunately there seems to be many bigs in the draft with some that may still be available when the Warriors draft. I haven't been studying this draft but perhaps Splitter is a big Nelson would want? You are right about Monta Ellis being able to play PG and needing to be the successor to Baron Davis. One of the reasons why Monta Ellis needs to become a solid PG is because he may be too small to be his most productive as a 2; his physical features are more suited for a PG. It is uncertain right now if Monta Ellis can give Baron Davis the needed rest he usually needs throughout the season. I have little doubt that Monta Ellis will work very hard and improve as a PG and player this offseason. A PG (who can play of course) can be a type of insurance player to give Don Nelson and Baron Davis some relief. Also if Baron or Monta goes down with injury (both are a bit injury prone) another PG may be needed.
<div class="quote_poster">TheFreshPrince Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I didnt know that, but it makes sense. But, can't an NBA team just guve that player like Fran a personal gift of cash that covers the rest of his contract costs. I mean this isn't the NCAA. I thought that NBA teams can do whatever they want in this sense.</div> Nope, the CBA covers that sort of thing, you can't do indirect payments of any kind. If this was the MLB, you could do that, because they don't have a salary cap. This link gets posted a lot, so you may have heard of it, but it's an outstanding, easy to read FAQ about the NBA salary cap: link
