Warriors at New York - Nov 6, 2004 10:00 am FSN

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting openglfx:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyone actually watched the game? How did Murphy and Richardson do on the defensive end?</div>
I saw part of it, but I took a small nap after the third. Close game though (watched the rest of it on tape).

The one thing I did notice that Larry Brown and Jerry Sloan both did was move the ball well against us. All those teams really had to do was have their point guard dribble hard at a slow moving Murphy or Foyle because there's all kinds of great ways to get inside when our inside D and perimeter D is just not great.

For instance, once the ballhandler/play initator dribbles into that small pocket between our big men and one of the wings, we've got two guys (big man, wing) collapsing on him trying to trap him. If that ballhandler doesn't plain beat everyone and score first, he can kick out to the open man rotating out on the baseline. One of our big men, Murphy or Foyle, then come out to contest the open baseline shot (pot of gold if they draw out our only shotblock presence) which forces somebody smaller on our team to cover Murphy or Foyle's defensive position as they leave the painted area to contest. The ball then gets passed from the baseline to the top of the key for somebody to hit either the bigger guy taking advantage of the switch, to shoot it from that spot or to receive the ball himself halfway to the rim without the ball. I saw the latter being done where the 3rd guy to touch the ball took it hard right at the smaller guys defending inside and Foyle or Murphy is on the wrong side and out of position to contest. I'm pretty sure that's why Richardson has had to come in and try to bring some shotblocking presence because they're falling right into this ploy every single time. Then, if they miss that's why we get outrebounded offensively (14-7). That's why I sure hope Monty can get our guys to execute and teach some defensive awareness to this team so they can play the passing lanes like they did against Phoenix and like they did some in tonight's game.

The thing is I sort of wish our big guys wouldn't leave the paint to try to go out on a perimeter shooter. The smaller guy helping out on defense who was supposed to be guarding that ballhandler in the first place is supposed to get out on the wing. Once our big guys leave the paint, it naturally causes all kinds of problems for what the other team could potentially do to us once they center that ball back. That's pure triple threat position they can get on us. Now just imagine why other teams love seeing Dunleavy and Murphy play defense for us. It's why the last thing you see on a slow rotation is Dunleavy up in the air too late to contest the open jump shot. He's a guy that will at least rotate over and play help defense, but all this off the ball movement and plays were designed to beat more athletic teams and get better looks at the basket. Well what happens when our perimeter defense is just not very quick moving. That's why I'd rather have Pietrus (as raw as he is) because at least he'll be in a position to learn how to be a great help defender and he can do a few things on both ends Dunleavy will never be able to do period.

Who shoots more end of period buzzer beaters off the bench besides Fisher and is actually nailing the catch and shoot jumpers and beating defenses in transition? It's been Pietrus all the way. That's why I can't stand why Dunleavy makes all this money and he hasn't done anything to justify that. Is it because of his Larry Bird potential to make others better? Give me a break. Something smells like absolute favoritism here and it's just frustrating to see a player that isn't particularly good at anything at the NBA level getting paid like a big talent. Will we see Pietrus as the next Wizard/former Warrior to blow up? Yeah... only like Larry Hughes, this one plays defense. It's just hard to swallow this bad investment. I mean Dun can turn this around like Murphy and Jrich did last year after signing big deals, but at least Murphy and Jrich dominated in some categories and were standing out in their positions. When I think starting small forward, Dunleavy certainly does not come to mind. When you watch him, he does some great things but not as a starter. If you think about it, we don't have that many true starters on this team that set the tone. Murphy isn't all that (Jazz game proved when he sits our D becomes a lot better if we manage to get the defensive board). Foyle is a pure backup. Dunleavy, I don't know where he stands, but he looks like a role player that does not set the tone for the team once the guards aren't getting it done. That's just my opinion.

 

I think Monty wants to play Pietrus more, but because of Dunleavy's fat extension he lets him get more minutes. Otherwise it'd make Mullin seem more of a fool for giving a big extension to Dunleavy. I hope this is the reason, cause if it's because he thinks Dunleavy deserves more mins, he's a bad coach. 8.7 pts out of 35 mins is just plain ridiculous. How many more bad games from Dunleavy will it take fr Pietrus to get more mins? I expect a good game from Dunleavy on Tuesday, or else I will be ripping my hair out.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mylie10:</div><div class="quote_post">The whole team is playing better defensively. Dungleavins' defense is pretty good so far.

I think the knicks will learn that they like us are better in the open court. They have some athletic type of players who haven't done so great in the half court. Marbury, Crawford, Q, Ariza, Frye, Nate, Barnes, even Lee can run. Curry can even run a little bit. Larry Brown has always been a half court type of coach, these guys need Paul Westhead, or Doug Moe.</div>
Sounds like our team only we have Monty (who is pretty much the same way, different style about the principle of having a ball movement system and defense like Larry Brown and Jerry Sloan preach). We play slower teams like the Jazz they will slug it out and control the pace because they can execute and they can stay a few steps ahead while running the actual play. Here is where I think Monty's true value as a coach can come to fruitation: If we got a center like Brad Miller or Vlade Divac in his prime, we'd be rockin' the modified version of the Princeton offense going backdoor a lot. It's too hard to find the Shaq's and Duncan's to use as playmakers from within the post, but a good high post players can set people up moving off the ball. If Curtis Borchardt gets waived he's one guy I'd like to pick up for that purpose and improve our defense at the same time. Besides the ball movement, or lack thereof, the defense a lot of times is clearly not getting it done. We just have no choice to go all offense and that just sucks for us because a team that can execute when we can't, owns us every posession down the floor because their defense is controlling the pace. I can't think of one starter in our Warriors team besides Baron Davis to pack a really strong offensive and defensive game that sets other people up which is why I think we tend to go all offense because defense is something few people can be extremely proficient in.... There are only a few perimeter defensive stoppers in the league who make a noticeable difference (Bowen, Artest, Trenton Hassell etc, The Hawks' Royal Ivey was looking good). For all around big man defenders it's Ben Wallace, Tim Duncan, Elton Brand, and some others that will play people in the post and guard the weakside, steal the ball, stop transition plays from initiating.

C'mon Dre (power forward/center), Diogu (power forward/center), Taft (power forward/center), Ellis (to back up Fisher/Davis) we need you to take over some jobs here!

 

So does anyone like that David Lee kid? 10 rebounds in 18 minutes off the bench. Jeez. He's like Drew Gooden only better in some ways. That guy would be on my fantasy team if he wasn't playing for Larry Brown.

BTW here's some highlights from the Utah/Atlanta game compliments of gswpete.

http://www.gswpete.com/

 

My thoughts on today's game are that fisher cannot run an offense. Fisher is better suited as a back up shooting guard. The Warriors can't depend too much on the 3point shoot, today they got lucky next time they won't. Foyle has to learn to pump fake instead of going straight up or he will continue to have spalding written all over his forehead. J-Rich needs to be more patient let the game come to him. Murphy needs to continue to drive to the basket and post up more often. Dunleavy man he is an enigma he needs to concentrate in helping the team with either rebounding, assist, or playing point forward if he can't score. Baron needs to stay healthy but, I rather take a 70% Baron than no Baron at all. At least we are 2-1 and in second place.

 

Miles is better suited at running the offense. Fisher brings the ball down court, everyone gets in position, then he fires a shot while his team mates are waiting for a pass.

 

Custodian, I'm hoping Diogu can learn to pass out of the post. As he gets his rep up teams will start to double him. If he can move that ball back out to open players, then we might have a version of what you're saying. Foyle can't even throw an inbound pass. Did you see him throw one off of Baron's head late in the game. Murphy can swing it, but passing's not his thing. Taft doesn't appear to be that kind of passer either. I would work on the youngster Biedrins. At his age he can learn a new wrinkle every year. He's got great hands, so who knows?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mylie10:</div><div class="quote_post">Foyle can't even throw an inbound pass. Did you see him throw one off of Baron's head late in the game.</div>

I'd be surprised if he can catch an inbound pass Did he really pass one off of Baron's head?

 

I haven't posted here in a while, but it seems like a few of you are freaking out over a few players...namely Dunleavy and Fisher.

Give these guys some time (not the whole season) and let them settle in. It's been three games! I'd say at least a month or two.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kensaku:</div><div class="quote_post">I haven't posted here in a while, but it seems like a few of you are freaking out over a few players...namely Dunleavy and Fisher.

Give these guys some time (not the whole season) and let them settle in. It's been three games! I'd say at least a month or two.</div>

That's way too long man, should be ready from the get go. Fisher is a Veteran, no excuses, as for Dunleavy, he had 3 years and all summer to develop and go crazy. Why is everone else ready, and they two can't contribute immediately?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kensaku:</div><div class="quote_post">

Give these guys some time (not the whole season) and let them settle in. It's been three games! I'd say at least a month or two.</div>


That's no fun!

By the way Custodian, Lee was on the team with Matt Walsh, who I think will be pretty good as well. Lee reminds me of Collison from Seattle.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting openglfx:</div><div class="quote_post">That's way too long man, should be ready from the get go. Fisher is a Veteran, no excuses, as for Dunleavy, he had 3 years and all summer to develop and go crazy. Why is everone else ready, and they two can't contribute immediately?</div>

I'm not the coach!

I'm just saying a lot of players and teams in the NBA don't get in the groove right off the bat. We would like that to happen considering how much prep they get, but historically that hasn't been the case.

 

i understand the need for patience but with our softy schedule we really need to get off to a great start in order to contend for the playoffs. Our schedule is gong to get a lot tougher in the 2nd half.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jzblaze:</div><div class="quote_post">i understand the need for patience but with our softy schedule we really need to get off to a great start in order to contend for the playoffs. Our schedule is gong to get a lot tougher in the 2nd half.</div>

Agreed, but I was talking about Dunleavy specifically, not the team. I really hope Dunleavy shines sooner than later (if at all) this year.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm still hoping Mully makes the move for Pau. I think we could make a realistic offer for him and I heard that on draft night when we drafted Pietrus that West told him that he'd see him in a few years. Murphy, Pietrus, and a 1st round pick would get it done for me, I know thats alot but its not often that you get a star for a fair amount. We have too much talent anyway. Anyway, we need a post presence and fast, Phoenix, LAL, and LAC are alot better than I expected them to be. This will be a crazy division race...</div>
Pau is kind of overpaid as well, but I like his mean streak. He's not a typical banger since he relies more on speed and finesse than bulk and muscle. He's 7'1 and 240 lbs, an all around type of big player that can score with either hand. The footwork, ambidexterity, size and ballhandling he posesses allows him to get points in the bucket. Thanks for baring with me.

Sorry for the earlier posts. I read over it and I'm like, "damn, this is really wordy and I have a hard time understanding it.".

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Duckmyster:</div><div class="quote_post">My thoughts on today's game are that fisher cannot run an offense. Fisher is better suited as a back up shooting guard. The Warriors can't depend too much on the 3point shoot, today they got lucky next time they won't. Foyle has to learn to pump fake instead of going straight up or he will continue to have spalding written all over his forehead. J-Rich needs to be more patient let the game come to him. Murphy needs to continue to drive to the basket and post up more often. Dunleavy man he is an enigma he needs to concentrate in helping the team with either rebounding, assist, or playing point forward if he can't score. Baron needs to stay healthy but, I rather take a 70% Baron than no Baron at all. At least we are 2-1 and in second place.</div>

I hear you, Fish didn't have to do anything when Kobe and Shaq dominated the ball and created offense for everyone else. Fisher is very skilled fundamentally as he can nail the bounce passes and chest passes accurately, he can dribble well with both hands and nail the set shot. His main weaknesses is he's not creative with the ball in an open court offense, he's not a great off-the-dribble shooter, and he's not very good at running a fastbreak. We're not that kind of Lakers team that Fisher would thrive in, unless we got both inside and outside play setting him up on the wing.

But Fish did have a nice one-handed crossover move which froze up Josh Childress. Maybe Baron dicing him up one-on-one in practice allowed Fisher to get better in taking somebody off the dribble. He does some things that are nice, but he shouldn't have the ball in his hands. It's why I think Aaron Miles or Baron Davis needs to be in the game when Fisher is playing. We get dribble penetration and Fisher is wide open on the kickout, his fg%'s increase quite a bit.

 

I agree custodian, we get more productivity out of Fisher when he's on court with Baron. He can't run the offense, but his catch and shoot is great.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mylie10:</div><div class="quote_post">Custodian, I'm hoping Diogu can learn to pass out of the post. As he gets his rep up teams will start to double him. If he can move that ball back out to open players, then we might have a version of what you're saying. Foyle can't even throw an inbound pass. Did you see him throw one off of Baron's head late in the game. Murphy can swing it, but passing's not his thing. Taft doesn't appear to be that kind of passer either. I would work on the youngster Biedrins. At his age he can learn a new wrinkle every year. He's got great hands, so who knows?</div>
When Ike gets double and triple teamed, hopefully he can thread the needle on the kickout pass. I think with his height he may not see over the top of players to hit the open guy as well as let's say Shaq, Yao, or Duncan. But, I don't know. I think he'll be somewhere between Brand and Randolph and considering we've had no low post presence coming from the PF spot in years, I'll take it.

I'm not sure how Biedrins will turn out, but I think he'll be primarily a Kenyon Martin type player. He'll run the floor, score on putbacks, make good passes and when he's more confident he'll shoot the midranger. He's very raw offensively, but he can run the floor quite well and handle the ball pretty well for his size. Maybe Zarko taught him some things or it's a Euroball trait for big guys to learn how to do that?

Taft could be our version of less talented Amare Stoudamire. He's physically gifted and he does a lot of things well, but he just lacks greatness.

I think Murphy and Foyle have already reached their ceilings. Murphy seems like Murphy and Foyle seems to be a little bit less athletic, but more bulky.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mylie10:</div><div class="quote_post">That's no fun!

By the way Custodian, Lee was on the team with Matt Walsh, who I think will be pretty good as well. Lee reminds me of Collison from Seattle. </div>
Collison is a good inside scorer, passer, rebounder, but I think David Lee is way more athletic and energetic. Like Collison, he can score with either hand and make solid passes. A bit overrated coming out of high school and nearly forgotten once he was in college, but he's a good defensive guy that can snag offensive boards and score a little (when he's not falling into the tweener zone of being an undersized power forward). He has some pretty good technical skills on his side with the athleticism and if he continues to improve strength-wise he should be able to find a good niche as a fringe starter or a key bench player. There was a reason why he got drafted late. It's because he's between a SF and a PF, but he played some C in college. He has gained 15 lbs to weigh in around 245-250 lb, so we'll see how that turns out. If he reaches the power and finesse zone, he'll be a good to decent player.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kensaku:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not the coach!

I'm just saying a lot of players and teams in the NBA don't get in the groove right off the bat. We would like that to happen considering how much prep they get, but historically that hasn't been the case.</div>

I agree. Jrich and Murphy made Mullin look very bad for the first few weeks after signing huge deals. Jrich and Murphy were very solid in specific categories, but Dunleavy is the type of player that will do the things nobody else will do. He'll board when nobody else is rebounding. He'll pass when everyone else is scoring. He'll do the little things. But what he doesn't do very well is make up for the fact we are not a very good defensive team. He can't help us in that department. He also takes a while to find his rhythm when he starts taking outside shots to begin the game. He needs to use his size more and score near the basket. If he can put the ball on the floor, then he needs to score on those midrange shots and start shooting over people. He just needs to grow some balls and stop being so tentative with his scoring.