Warriors make 5 year, 90 million dollar offer to Brand

Okay, this video just irks me: http://www.latimes.com/video/?slug=la-sp-p...4-2008jul04-vid

This guy is preaching to Elton Brand about not going against his word and going for more money while at the same time, they have a player (BD) that did exactly the same thing. The Clippers fanbase and mediabase of all people should understand why Brand would come to the Warriors.

BTW, I think Brand would have a better chance of winning in GS than in Clipperland.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jul 3 2008, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hope it happens but I'm expecting it not too. Rebuilding wouldn't be all bad either IMO.</div>

That's how I feel. We as Warriors fans have been conditioned to expect for things to not go our way. I think the Clipper fanbase is getting pretty excited, and I'm happy for them to an extent (I still hate LA) because they've been through just as much as we have, but they shouldn't get too excited because at this point, the chances of either team to land Brand is 50/50, or 33% if Falk is now trying to get the Sixers to bid for Brand.

Rebuilding won't be so bad but getting that one guy to help develop our young guys on the court would be huge. I thought Baron could do that for us one more year. Brand would definitely help with our bigs. Everyone says a Brand/Kaman frontcourt would be one of the top frontcourts in the league, but what about Beans? I think Beans has way more upside than Kaman and at this point he is less injury prone. With Brand, Baron, and Kaman among others, the Clippers would have key players who are injury prone.

If we don't get Brand, I do think it's important the Warriors get a stop-gap PG, at the very least.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ Jul 3 2008, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Run BJM,

You're actually in favor of another rebuild? The Warriors just put together consecutive winning seasons should continue the progress instead of starting all over again. If they rebuild who becomes the face of their franchise? Monta Ellis?

He's a great young talent, but I don't think he'll ever be a franchise caliber player.

The Warriors franchise needs to stop this trend of building a quality team and then blowing it up after a few seasons. They did it with Run TMC, they did with the Webber-Spree-Hardaway trio, and they did it with Arenas & Jamison.

Now they're doing it again with Baron and JRich removed from the roster.

I think it's more productive for their franchise and fan base if they can put together a string of seasons making it to the post season and changing the losing stigma the team has carried since Cohan took over.</div>

This is how I feel, although, I think Monta will be a franchise player sooner or later.

Cap room does not equal ticket sales...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shapecity @ Jul 3 2008, 10:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Run BJM,

You're actually in favor of another rebuild? The Warriors just put together consecutive winning seasons should continue the progress instead of starting all over again. If they rebuild who becomes the face of their franchise? Monta Ellis?

He's a great young talent, but I don't think he'll ever be a franchise caliber player.

The Warriors franchise needs to stop this trend of building a quality team and then blowing it up after a few seasons. They did it with Run TMC, they did with the Webber-Spree-Hardaway trio, and they did it with Arenas & Jamison.

Now they're doing it again with Baron and JRich removed from the roster.

I think it's more productive for their franchise and fan base if they can put together a string of seasons making it to the post season and changing the losing stigma the team has carried since Cohan took over.</div>

I'm not in favor of another rebuild (getting rid of all our vets), but I think Run BJM meant getting younger players in trade or free agents to add to our young core. That's what guys like Josh Smith and Andre Iguodala would do. The only rub is they are near impossible to get since their teams would match like we would do with Ellis and Biedrins. Otherwise, it's trying to rebuild through the draft and I think we have too many young players to develop now so I wouldn't be in favor or going that route. The only exception would be to get a future stud pg.

It seems like Mullin and the Warriors aren't ready to go young yet and rightly so. They're still trying to salvage what they have with the starters and add someone like Brand. Clearly, they prefer Brand over Smith.

Mullin isn't trying to blow the team up, he's trying to salvage what he can after Baron opted out. It was a business decision on both their parts, so you can't blame either for sticking to their guns. What's important now is who the Warriors can get to add to their core even without Baron. It would've been nice if the Warriors anticipated Baron opting out, but what's done is done. We got to get some value in return for Baron leaving.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kensaku @ Jul 3 2008, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Okay, this video just irks me: http://www.latimes.com/video/?slug=la-sp-p...4-2008jul04-vid

This guy is preaching to Elton Brand about not going against his word and going for more money while at the same time, they have a player (BD) that did exactly the same thing. The Clippers fanbase and mediabase of all people should understand why Brand would come to the Warriors.

BTW, I think Brand would have a better chance of winning in GS than in Clipperland.</div>

OMG! That guy's a columnist? What a slap in the face of professional journalism. That guy sounds like a whiny kid getting all flustered on youtube because someone stole his World of Warcraft password.

It wouldn't have been so bad if he hadn't put his columnist credentials on the intro of the video. That's pathetic

 

I don't think anyone's in favor of another total rebuild, but we have to be realistic and try to look at the bright side of things. We're left with no choice.

Compared to giving Baron 5 years at 65 million, I prefer the rebuild. (I could see how at this price some may disagree).
The perfect plan would have been to keep the team together one more year, but that obviously would have been negative for Davis, who would have had to risk not being injured and playing well for yet another 82 games. Who'd take a chance on him if he even got a few minor injuries?

Best way to rebuild is through the draft, and that's why I agree with Run BJM. When's the last time a team made a splash purely through free agency? Basketball, due to its stringy rules in free agency in particular, is all about keeping your talent and then building on it, hitting the sweet spots by trading prospects for veterans and putting it together at the right time. Unfortunately, the Warriors have not done poorly enough to do well in the draft (ironic, isn't it? We suck at sucking). We got into the top 3 two times, and got Joe Smith and Mike Dunleavy out of it. Being on the outer edge, we've missed our franchise player every time. Out of true franchise players, only Dirk Nowitzki or Kobe was selected as far in the draft as where we usually picked for the past decade or more (ignoring Joe Smith and Dunleavy, where in the Smith draft we plain failed, and the Dunleavy draft we picked as best as we could I feel).

Just to illustrate the point further - the team that's succeeded through free agency in the past thirty (maybe more than 30, but my memory just doesn't go back that far) is the Detroit Pistons. Billups, Wallace, Sheed, Hamilton were all non-draftees who were traded or signed (and then given good, or at least decent) contracts for their work. Otherwise, you look at a finals full of Duncans, Kobes, Jordans, Olajuwons, Magic/Birds, Abdul-Jabbars, etc. (I suppose you could argue the Lakers with Shaq frame a different story than purely the draft as the best way to build, but that's still a trade more than free agency, and you can't deny Kobe.)

Anyway, I kind of agree with you Shape that Ellis isn't quite the level of franchise player by my standards. I have to qualify this by labeling "franchise player" for me personally being defined as "the man who is primarily responsible for at least winning enough games to get you into the NBA finals." He's not only the representative of your team, but he really carries it as well, and carries it far. Maybe I could soften it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, or something, but it has show success in getting to the offseason and in the offseason. (So by my standards, alot of great, even Superstar players aren't franchise players.) I think Ellis a great, great player, a guy who will easily be a 24/5/5 guy as long as he's healthy, and could be a primary scorer on a championship team. (Maybe eventually peaking near the Allen Iverson level without the headaches, if his teams don't get more help). But he could prove me wrong, or at the very least we have the pieces to land a franchise player by giving up our great players. And I still think we need one more piece, somehow, to really move on and not be satisfied with being stuck at the bottom seed of the playoffs over and over.

Can Wright be that piece? I don't expect to even think about this question deeply for 1.5-2 years, unfortunately. Iggy or Smith, or even Brand? They have a decent shot, I feel, to make this team at least improved over last year, even without Baron. So to get to where we want to go, Destination: NBA Finals/Conference Finals, are we going to have to take a big risk and have some luck to get there, either through the draft or by magically prying away a free agent? Yeah, we need craptons of luck, because either scenario is admittedly unlikely; the draft is a game of low chance, and free agency even more so because rules favor teams keeping their own players. But the way the game is played, there are no other options.

As far as franchise players though, Baron wasn't that piece that would have gotten us there either, and never was, but I still am extremely grateful for having him. He's an excellent player if what you're looking for is for the franchise to sell oodles of tickets and make lots of money. Any owner who cares not about winning but about the bottom line has to love that. But in all honesty, he wouldn't even likely have been enough trade value after this year, to get more than a few random draft picks plus some bad contract, so all in all that was a very longwinded way of saying Mullin made the correct choice, even if it may doom us for years. (Man am I jinxing us, or what).

 

Here's what I don't get about the Warriors. In the news, the 76ers who have a lot less cap space than the Warriors, are still interested in Elton Brand, Josh Childress, Corey Maggette, and Josh Smith. Miami is targeting Elton Brand and Keyon Dooling. The Warriors are interested in just Elton Brand and Corey Maggette. Why aren't they casting a wider net like things being discussed on this board? For example, they didn't even approach Chris Duhon.

How about going after a vet PG like Keyon Dooling in addition to going after Smith and Childress? Miami has put Shawn Marion on the market and they're interested in POB. They got a glut of guards like Memphis. Why are the Warriors just focused on Brand who is likely to re-sign with the Clips and Maggette? If I were the Warriors, I'd have a Plan A, B and even a Plan C if I had to go there.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jason voorhees @ Jul 4 2008, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Here's what I don't get about the Warriors. In the news, the 76ers who have a lot less cap space than the Warriors, are still interested in Elton Brand, Josh Childress, Corey Maggette, and Josh Smith. Miami is targeting Elton Brand and Keyon Dooling. The Warriors are interested in just Elton Brand and Corey Maggette. Why aren't they casting a wider net like things being discussed on this board? For example, they didn't even approach Chris Duhon.

How about going after a vet PG like Keyon Dooling in addition to going after Smith and Childress? Miami has put Shawn Marion on the market and they're interested in POB. They got a glut of guards like Memphis. Why are the Warriors just focused on Brand who is likely to re-sign with the Clips and Maggette? If I were the Warriors, I'd have a Plan A, B and even a Plan C if I had to go there.</div>

I am not sure what the Warriors have been doing. I know that they are in contract talks with Monta Ellis. The Warriors as a management group has always been very quiet about their interests when concerning their motives to get other players. They seem to like to keep everything as private as possible. I mean the JRich trade seemed to have come out of nowhere. So maybe they have had interest in these players but they aren't showing it publicly through the media or I don't know. Another possibility is that perhaps they don't want to throw a lot of money at someone who is just decent/mediocre. They want someone who will be a long time starter for the team, which could be why they didn't talk to Duhon. But you may be right. I just know that no one seems to ever know what's going to happen with this team.

Getting Josh Smith is going to be like another team getting Monta Ellis from the Warriors. I don't think the Warriors or anyother team have much of a chance there. But wasn't there an article saying the Warriors were looking at Iggy and Smith?

 

The Warriors might not be casting a wider net, because they want to focus on getting revenge for losing Baron?

 

Zhone, I think Mullin has to rely on the draft to rebuild, but he's also go to keep finding good trades like he has been doing. We've seen how Boston has been able to reverse its fortunes by taking the right risks to take advantage of their window of opportunity.

I guess all of us know we have to win on all sorts of levels. We have to win at the draft level, we have to win in free agent signings (bargain contracts), and talent that fits our the coaching, can play with chemistry/experience, etc. We just have to build on the right core.

 

Oh yeah, I definitely agree CR. The job is difficult and has to be dealt with on all levels, draft, trades, and free agency. The best I can do is look to history and try to recreate, but I think having a series of great drafts helps as far as building because doing so, you have the pieces to trade for other players when they're at their lowest value, i.e., Garnett or Shaq's trades. Thus drafts are more about value, more than position for me, i.e. always BAP. So when drafting, I'm looking at pieces, hope they develop as best they can, and then rather humanlessly value them. I suppose you could try to sign a player at a value in relation to thinking about the most future trade value, but I think of signing players as trying to get players you want to keep (at least until you get an upgrade for that position) rather than trade.

With Garnett, having Green, #5 in 2006, plus Delonte West (#24, 2004) and a big contract in Szcerbiak landed Allen. Allen and Pierce, #10, 1998 (still one of the biggest steal picks) lured Garnet. But it also took Jefferson (#15, 2004), Gomes (#50, 2005), Green (#18, 2005), a 2008 pick and a 2009 pick, plus a few crappy contracts. That's basically Boston stockpiling picks, picking decent to good players, and trading them out. One 2006 pick, 2 2005 picks, 2 2004 picks, and 2 future first round picks, plus veterans that were signed or traded for that were terribly high, but somehow worked to their favor by making the trade caps work. Ainge went from being bashed for missing out on AI or other things to being lauded for his choice. I'm not saying we or anyone needs to copy that to make a success, but drafting and drafting well (Jefferson, Gomes, and West were basically all good to awesome picks at their positions, even G.Green and S.Telfair had enough upside to blind people for middle 1st round picks) is the easiest key for me to focus on. That's why I'm such a proponent of the draft and think about it so much over the season, and then kind of go into auto-pilot as the season unfolds. I feel that Mullin is at least towards this mode of thinking. (Talking bout Garnett made me wish that he'd tried to sweeten whatever deal it was, but who am I to second guess him on that?).

Of course, it's not always easy or predictable to draft, there's always going to be luck there. Like us missing out on Rudy Fernandez at 18 (picked at 24) and Marc Gasol at 46 (picked at 48). After just 1 year, everything about their value changed. Here's hoping that our guys improve drastically as well.

There's always hoping to trade and get lucky by turning expiring contracts into superstars, i.e. Gasol or Davis. Even then, a draft pick or prospect is the centerpiece of that kind of throw-away trade.

In offering a contract to Brand, we're basically hoping Wright has decent trade value or that Brand will be trade-able in the future when Wright is ready. I don't know which Mullin feels it is, although it could be just whatever opportunity presents itself, presents itself.

As a total side note regarding drafting, I know it's early, but I don't see the 2009 draft class as being all that great. As I say with all my negative analysis, I hope I'm wrong.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zhone @ Jul 7 2008, 06:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oh yeah, I definitely agree CR. The job is difficult and has to be dealt with on all levels, draft, trades, and free agency. The best I can do is look to history and try to recreate, but I think having a series of great drafts helps as far as building because doing so, you have the pieces to trade for other players when they're at their lowest value, i.e., Garnett or Shaq's trades.

With Garnett, having Green, #5 in 2006, plus Delonte West (#24, 2004) and a big contract in Szcerbiak landed Allen. Allen and Pierce, #10, 1998 (still one of the biggest steal picks) lured Garnet. But it also took Jefferson (#15, 2004), Gomes (#50, 2005), Green (#18, 2005), a 2008 pick and a 2009 pick, plus a few crappy contracts. That's basically Boston stockpiling picks, picking decent to good players, and trading them out. One 2006 pick, 2 2005 picks, 2 2004 picks, and 2 future first round picks, plus veterans that were signed or traded for that were terribly high, but somehow worked to their favor by making the trade caps work. Ainge went from being bashed for missing out on AI or other things to being lauded for his choice. I'm not saying we or anyone needs to copy that to make a success, but drafting and drafting well (Jefferson, Gomes, and West were basically all good to awesome picks at their positions, even G.Green and S.Telfair had enough upside to blind people for middle 1st round picks) is the easiest key for me to focus on. That's why I'm such a proponent of the draft and think about it so much over the season, and then kind of go into auto-pilot as the season unfolds. I feel that Mullin is at least towards this mode of thinking. (Talking bout Garnett made me wish that he'd tried to sweeten whatever deal it was, but who am I to second guess him on that?).

There's always hoping to trade and get lucky by turning expiring contracts into superstars, i.e. Gasol or Davis. Even then, a draft pick or prospect is the centerpiece of that kind of throw-away trade.

I know it's early, but I don't see the 2009 draft class as being all that great. As I say with all my negative analysis, I hope I'm wrong.</div>

Zhone, you brought up another important detail. The depth of the draft also has to be deep or otherwise we "tank" and still wind up with no franchise leader in the draft. I'm hoping trades go well because maybe we can acquire talent that another franchise has just given up on because of a pressure situation or their coaching/training staff isn't getting along with the player. I'm feeling like if the warriors organization has a good team with talented players and leaders, we can make "late-bloomers" even better. So I'm for spending the cap on defensive/leadership guys that could also be 18 ppg scorers. That's why I'm hoping for former all-stars or 6th men of the year. We can't just get by on rookies and no vets. We need to be respectable enough so that a good vet joins us. We just end up drafting a lot of guys that don't know the game yet, so it's often hard for them to be team leaders. They'd have to be quick learners like Monta Ellis or just naturally gifted if we're to rely on them. We just have to avoid being the loser team that nobody wants to be on.

 

It looks like Brand is most likely going to stay with the Clippers. And the Warriors are not looking at Josh Smith. This is according to the rumors on hoopshype.com

There was no definitive word during the NBA's quiet holiday weekend pinpointing precisely when Elton Brand will do what pretty much everyone around the league expects him to do and verbally commit to re-signing with the Los Angeles Clippers. One source close to the process said Sunday night that Brand's decision should be public knowledge within the "next 24 to 48 hours." Another suggests that the Clippers have known since the middle of the last week that they would have to wait until after July 4 to confirm Brand's intentions. ESPN.com


Josh Smith? Sources inside and outside the organization say he's not on the Warriors' radar. San Francisco Chronicle