<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's not that the players don't deserve to go to the playoffs (they're really trying), the it's the type of pieces that Mullin assembled that don't deserve to go to the playoffs. He really f-ed up with his contracts being handed out at 6 years each. If we can't compete in the individual matchups for the most important size positons and be in control of the tempo/production/%'s, there's very few ways we can play to keep things honest on both ends of the floor. Try playing 5 vs. 5 with a small team vs. a big team. It's a lot harder to finish inside at high %'s as a small guy than it is as a big guy trying to finish inside when the other team starts to collapse inside on you. Naturally, if the small guy can't finish because it's too hard to make the adjustment, and it's too much contact, and it's too hard to get offensive rebounds, the small guys start taking more distance shots. We should go to the foul line a lot more, but it's harder to do when the defense can play you so that all you come up with is a lot of difficult shots, bigger contact and the no-call. Plus, it doesn't help when we mess up at the free throw line quite often.</div> Sorry, I should have mentioned I was listening from the radio. So all I heard was "insert name with a 3, off back iron!". But I agree with your assessment.
<div class="quote_poster">AnimeFANatic Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry, I should have mentioned I was listening from the radio. So all I heard was "insert name with a 3, off back iron!". But I agree with your assessment.</div> It's all good We're going to be playing like this all year unless a trade happens or we get bigger inside... And if Nelly doesn't reinforce team/system fundamentals, we will play "Monty-ball" where guys like Fisher/Baron and Murphy launch it and guys stand around and get killed going the opposite way. The problem with Monty-ball is fans perceive it was directly Coach Montgomery's fault on why we lost a lot of games. I feel it was different that no matter what coach we had, it was not going to change the fact we have no pieces that could put the coach in a position to make MORE VARIETY MOVES against the other coach. When there's no real natural fitting team and no center that can either a.) stay on the floor when we need him b.) emulate post presence c.) control the paint defensively. d.) demonstrate gritiness and physical game, we tend to get outworked because the other coach realizes our weaknesses. It's just too hard to hide most nights. Without a backcourt and forward lineup that can fit together, and a capable center, we're basically the Rockets back when Mobley and Francis dominated the ball and there was no Yao just yet. Just Kelvin Cato who was okay backup center. Also, for whatever reasons, the warrior rookies weren't earning the playing time last year and so rather than the old coach calling them out vocally, they just wouldn't be played. Only the vets would. I like Nelson's approach because he definitely says what every fan is thinking and actually acts on it... The vets we had were no good, the only way to get better is our rookies. But it's so frustrating in the process that I hope he doesn't get a stroke or just plain retire midseason. It's just not working as well because we lack some fundamental chess pieces in order to put the other team/coach in checkmate. It's like we got a bunch of pawns, rooks, and bishops. But very few games where we have a queen and a knight. We have to win with the guard pieces consistently, because very few times will Dun/Murphy/Pietrus/Barnes win any matchups for the style of game being played right now and we can't count on Biedrins being an offensive player 2nd option. He's a Tyson Chandler right now. His role is rebounding, putbacks, defense and shotblocking. I'm hoping Jrich + Ike being healthy can change this team and I think they will. But not sure if it will save the season should we ever go on a big losing streak. The only time we break that is it we're out of the playoffs and players stop feeling the pressure of trying to make the playoffs. That's my prediction. We need to get ike and jrich back because they do a lot of things that our current players do not. we need to help our guards get some assists, extra rebounding and some inside presence to feed off of.
No inside presence is just an excuse. You do not need a big "post" presence to get quality shots. Watch the Pistons from '04-05. They got good quality shots without a big post player. Oh sure Rasheed is a quality option but look at the box scores, he's shooting around 10-14 shots and 3-4 are from 3. How do they get good shots for Billips, Rip and Tayshaun? But running good plays and executing, not just jacking up 3s with no one under the basket. The Warriors could run good sets to get good shots but they revert to playground ball at times. Pound, pound, shot clock winds down, penetrate, kick out for 3, or jack up the 3 yourself. Its so obvious. I've said it for quite a while (so I know I'm repeating myself) but instead of the kickout for the 3, how about the kickout for the medium jumper? Tonight, in the middle of the 4th, I saw the Warriors run an iso for Keith McCloud!!!! That is not quality offense. I don't care if he's got Boykins on him, he's not a quality option. Run a play. I posted about Sloan today, I bet the Jazz have almost never run an iso, ever. They have consistently run plays, over and over again, whether they are winning by 30 or losing by 30. The Warriors need to run plays. Oh yeah, and rebound and reduce turnovers. Killer. They needed to win tonight.
I'm getting ready to start thinking about blowing this team up and starting over from scratch because it's not looking like they will ever be anything better than just above average, and even then it seems they'll always be wildly inconsistent. Of course I'll wait until JRich and Ike are back healthy. I think they will help, however, I do not think those two are going to completely turn this team around. The Warriors have fundamental flaws that go deeper than the holes they can plug. They have a lot of games where you say "hey, they actually looked pretty good, they just dropped this one but it could have gone either way." The problem is, it never does go the Warriors' way, they are losing every one of these games one way or another. That sounds like a sign to me that a team has reached its ceiling, where coaching and making adjustments can no longer make the difference and you are left facing the cold, hard fact that your talent is just not up to par. It's starting to look really, really obvious that this is not a Western conference playoff team.
The W's couldn't shoot worth a lick in the 3Q and let Seattle back in the game. And *poof.* Just like that the lead's gone. Then Seattle, yes that Seattle without leading scorer Ray Allen, puts the screws to the Warriors and holds on to win the game. Jeez what happened to Baron at the end of the game? Where was he? And *poof.* Just like that he's gone. I tell ya one thing. Matt Barnes is a heck of more ball player than Murphy. The vets have to step up when the team's reeling like that. Nelson must've threw his 1200th win signed ball in the ocean.
<div class="quote_poster">philsmith75 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No inside presence is just an excuse. You do not need a big "post" presence to get quality shots. </div> True, we just need guys who can shoot and move off the ball. Like what motion offense preaches, but few guys can comprehend because their instincts about the game aren't too good and one guy couldn't even do layups or catch the ball. Doh! And then just like the Pistons we need to play some D, and rebound and hustle. Also yeah, I think our midrange game disappeared with Cheaney when he started getting really old. Too bad. The midrange can be a deadly high % game, but we also need to make the defenses fear us going inside. We couldn't even get to the line as much as the Sonics did. But, having inside presence helps, otherwise teams don't respect us driving to the hole inside and they don't respect our offense in the painted area. That's my concern.
You could see that run coming from ten miles away. We were playing well but it was obvious we were lucky having a 16 point lead. We shot around 70% at one point. Shots from three won't keep dropping like that, especially with a mediocre shooting squad. Well not only did the shots stop falling but so did a coherent gameplan. Outside of Baron everyone was garbage. The scrub squad shooting three after three was horrendous. Barnes shot 16 shots? That's unbelievable Nellie didn't yank him on principal alone. I totally agree about McCloud. Taking Montay out of the game makes zero sense. Montay is at least a scoring threat. McCloud is a terrible passer and scorer. I'm all for isolation plays but it should be used when there's a MISMATCH. McCloud, Murphy at the top of the key, Pietrus? That's insane. McCloud and Murphy present no advantage and Pietrus has no basketball sense. The zone is mediocre to poor. Against SA and Utah it worked well but it destroyed us tonight. The 2 section of our 2-3 zone has one guy willing to play defense and rebound. Biedrins. Everyone else, even from the bench is incapable of defending the interior and rebounding. The three other guys are scrambling and you saw the rest...open three after open three. We started playing man and kinda came back but it was too late. We really need another forward, Murphy is really hurting this team.
The weakside rebounding on the 1/2/2 zone is killing the Warriors. Dunleavy is so weak on those rebounds, he's playing for calls instead of just getting in there and fighting for the ball and using his height. Plus Biedrins has somehow lost his grip on the tough rebounds, I see him fumbling more these days (not yet Foyle-like, but getting close).
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's not that the players don't deserve to go to the playoffs (they're really trying), the it's the type of pieces that Mullin assembled that don't deserve to go to the playoffs. He really f-ed up with his contracts being handed out at 6 years each. If we can't compete in the individual matchups for the most important size positons and be in control of the tempo/production/%'s, there's very few ways we can play to keep things honest on both ends of the floor.</div> Agreed CR2. You hit the nail on the head. We should be able to dump the guys that aren't producing, but we can't. It's not like Mullin hasn't tried. What I am hoping for is he and Higgins learned something from this, but I'm not sure because he still gave that contract to Dunleavy. They should not be handing out any big contracts this year unless we get somebody good in trade. But that doesn't seem likely either because no one wants to take our bad contracts, so we have to trade somebody we don't want to.
<div class="quote_poster">AlleyOop Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Keith McCleod thinks he's Jordan.</div> McLeod was at least getting to the line and making free throws. I wish some of that would rub off on Dunleavy or Murphy. I can't blame Baron for being unhappy with this game. I think he was blaming Roberson and Murphy mostly. As for rebounding, we need to get Ike back. It doesn't look like we'll be able to trade for David Lee or a big man who's good. Too many teams want that and there's no one out there that's available.
<div class="quote_poster">jason voorhees Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">McLeod was at least getting to the line and making free throws. I wish some of that would rub off on Dunleavy or Murphy. I can't blame Baron for being unhappy with this game. I think he was blaming Roberson and Murphy mostly. As for rebounding, we need to get Ike back. It doesn't look like we'll be able to trade for David Lee or a big man who's good. Too many teams want that and there's no one out there that's available.</div> No -- I know, I mentioned in another thread that he was 11-12 from the line, which was great. My beef is that every time he touches the ball, the play is over. He rarely if ever passes and tries to go one-on-one every time. He's worse than Fisher. I thought he was a pass-first PG, lol. He's not even a PG at all. P.S. several of his trips to the line were bad calls. He went out of control one time, turned the ball over while running someone over, but got the call. Even though he scored from the freethrow line he took the team out of the flow, IMO.
<div class="quote_poster">jason voorhees Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Agreed CR2. You hit the nail on the head. We should be able to dump the guys that aren't producing, but we can't. It's not like Mullin hasn't tried. What I am hoping for is he and Higgins learned something from this, but I'm not sure because he still gave that contract to Dunleavy. They should not be handing out any big contracts this year unless we get somebody good in trade. But that doesn't seem likely either because no one wants to take our bad contracts, so we have to trade somebody we don't want to.</div> Yeah JV, it's a bummer. I believe we would have been in a bigger race to land quality FA's once we got Baron. Who wouldn't want to play with Baron? Guys like Jamaal Magloire sort of owe their big season to guys like him. He makes big men better. But we have no big men... That's my main beef with Mullin. How can Mullin's first free agent signing be Adonal Foyle and for that length of time? And to make matters worse he threw money at Derek Fisher hoping he'd be a point guard, when it was Kobe Bryant that brought the ball up most of the time. Did he think Jrich or Dunleavy would do this for him? Last but not least was the Murphy contract. Double doubles are great, but I'd take a double double from any one of the following and it means more: Kurt Thomas, Dale Davis, David Lee, Ben Wallace, Kenny Thomas. I wonder what these guys all have in common? More grittiness, more hustle, and more quickness and possibly each has more strength to bang. I just can't stand the roles our "team" is playing in the size positions. It's just not what I like. I like Murphy, but his act in Warrior land is getting old. So is Dunleavy's and I don't like Foyle's, but sadly he is the second best defensive big on our team. If we hope to force misses and run the ball out, I'd rather have him playing. Troy Murphy ain't a setup guy and neither is Foyle, but defense has the best chance to fuel our offense so that it can land in the hands of a setup guy (Zarko, Dun, Baron, (Ellis), or on occasion: Keith Mcleod). We need initiators, finishers, and defensive guys, but very few are those things all at the same time... I'm willing to take at least one or two of the three vs. 0 for 3. Getting a classic big guy would be a plus, especially if he can hustle in the running game and bail us out in the halfcourt game. Somebody needs to make their presence felt in the paint. I don't like the softies at PF and if they have no choice in being soft because their bodies are too weak, then I hope it's the playmaking kind.
<div class="quote_poster">AlleyOop Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">No -- I know, I mentioned in another thread that he was 11-12 from the line, which was great. My beef is that every time he touches the ball, the play is over. He rarely if ever passes and tries to go one-on-one every time. He's worse than Fisher. I thought he was a pass-first PG, lol. He's not even a PG at all. P.S. several of his trips to the line were bad calls. He went out of control one time, turned the ball over while running someone over, but got the call. Even though he scored from the freethrow line he took the team out of the flow, IMO.</div> Yeah, sometimes McLeod's game gets the team out of sync waiting for him to do his thing. If he had a game like Jordan we wouldn't be complaining, but it's different from playing like Jordan and thinking he's Jordan. Jordan was able to do his shooting and scoring in the context of the team game. McLeod isn't a shooter. On the Warriors, McLeod's assists numbers are down. Maybe when he passes to someone they miss, so he's taking it upon himself to score. He's not a shooter, so he has to get in position for a percentage shot. Now you know why the Jazz wanted to pick a PG after they had McLeod starting for most of the season. As soon as the Jazz got Deron Williams and Fish and Dee Brown this season, McLeod was gone. Still, McLeod is aggressive. It's too bad he's not taller, then he could play some SF. I'm still waiting for Roberson to come around. So far, his shooting has not been up to snuff because it's one shot and that's it;The ball is going the other way. He needs to get himself a better shot or pass it to someone else.
<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I just can't stand the roles our "team" is playing in the size positions. It's just not what I like. I like Murphy, but his act in Warrior land is getting old. So is Dunleavy's and I don't like Foyle's, but sadly he is the second best defensive big on our team. If we hope to force misses and run the ball out, I'd rather have him playing. Troy Murphy ain't a setup guy and neither is Foyle, but defense has the best chance to fuel our offense so that it can land in the hands of a setup guy (Zarko, Dun, Baron, (Ellis), or on occasion: Keith Mcleod). We need initiators, finishers, and defensive guys, but very few are those things all at the same time... I'm willing to take at least one or two of the three vs. 0 for 3.</div> Murphy is our biggest problem. He's the square peg in the round hole or is that the round peg in the square hole? Whatever, his game doesn't fit Nelson's scheme. And if the team doesn't work a play to set up Murphy so he can catch and shoot, he's not going to play too well. Murph is better when he has the traditional role of a PF and not a ball handler under Nelson. If you want to talk about a black hole, it would be Murphy. When Ike comes back, I think Nellie will have more options and will cut Murphy's minutes. It will be Ike at PF or MP I think.
I remember the year I rally started following the Warriors night in, night out, it was because I was so enamored with Gilbert Arenas' game. I was sick one night, and I was listening to the Warriors play in Seattle, and Gary Payton hit a three at the end of the game to win it. For whatever reason, I've never, EVER been able to forget that moment, despite having witnessed similar or worse losses. Seattle Supersonics... more like Seattle Stupidsonics! HAHAHA, HAA, hah heh, heeeeeh... hum. Stupid Sonics.
Yeah, Payton has always ice-man, with the same agitated personality as Baron. The only difference between the two is that Payton has been a perennial first-team defensive player of the year and a consistent iron man. He's averaged 75 games per year... and that's over 17 seasons!! Check out this stat line, lol: SEA 1999-2000 Games Started: 82 MPG: 41.8 FG: 45% FT: 74% RPG: 6.5 APG: 8.9 SPG: 1.9 PPG: 24.2 The "Glove" has been doing it for 17 years. Baron has the potential to give Seattle fans just as much heart-ache; can he be as consistent?
