Warriors VS. Lakers game thread

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by Duckmyster, Jan 22, 2007.

  1. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Crapping on no defense playing ballhogging one dimensional tweeners is my favorite pasttime, though. [​IMG]

    He takes more shots than any other Warrior and luckily he wasn't shooting 4 for 19 this time. We'll just say we're still lacking roles in the frontcourt to add more power and dominance on the glass. If we get more power inside, maybe we're suddenly shooting 50% on posessions made against set defenses and getting the touch fouls because guys are actively using pump fakes and nice moves in the pivot. I think some shots inside are just forced or they just plain lose the ball. It's like there needs to be some measure of craftiness around the hoop and I don't think Harrington has it. It's only two games in though... but I'm reminded of how he played with the Hawks and Indiana. He wasn't all that IMO or more teams would be after him. The guy is a role player who shouldn't be taking that many shots, but fortunately he was hot tonight.</div>

    Well, AL can and does score. He's absolutely horrible if he doesn't. I'm just saying he needs to do more from the 4 spot. He's playing more like a 3. I do agree he needs to play some D and not just matador D.

    Now, I'm starting to see why Indy traded him. He's too one dimensional. I hope Nelson gets on him, but I guess this is his game.
     
  2. Clif25

    Clif25 JBB JustBBall Member

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    I thought that Harrington was great tonight. I am not sure how he was one deminsional. Harrington was great in the first half with the rest of the team creating turnovers and fast break, easy buckets. Harrington was able to shoot from the outside, he attacked the hoop a few times, he did a couple of plays in the paint. He isn't really a back-to-the-basket offensive player but I thought he was very well rounded outside of lacking in that area this game. I think Harrington even had a few nice passes. I can live with 3 turnovers if he is equalizing it with assists like he did tonight. I can absolutely accept it if he is getting 3 steals to go with that. Harrington could have done better rebounding. I am not going to excuse him too much for not rebounding. But I think Pietrus and others held the boards pretty well. Limited rebounding from the PF position isn't going to be accepted especially if it starts killing the team.

    I wonder what you guys think about Pietrus starting when JRich comes back. Pietrus, Baron, Al, and Jackson were strong on the perimeter forcing turnovers. JRich seems like he might hurt that little streak running there with what 16 and now 18 steals in the last two games.
     
  3. Duckmyster

    Duckmyster JBB JustBBall Member

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    I am steeming I can't believe that the Warriors found away to losde thids game. Yeah we were in the game but knowit seems that we have tyo many players that doln't seem tol be on the same page. Yeah maybe it was playing against the lakers that made winning this game imposible but, I can't belive the way the game ended. We are truly cursed.
     
  4. jason bourne

    jason bourne JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Clif25 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I thought that Harrington was great tonight. I am not sure how he was one deminsional. Harrington was great in the first half with the rest of the team creating turnovers and fast break, easy buckets. Harrington was able to shoot from the outside, he attacked the hoop a few times, he did a couple of plays in the paint. He isn't really a back-to-the-basket offensive player but I thought he was very well rounded outside of lacking in that area this game. I think Harrington even had a few nice passes. I can live with 3 turnovers if he is equalizing it with assists like he did tonight. I can absolutely accept it if he is getting 3 steals to go with that. Harrington could have done better rebounding. I am not going to excuse him too much for not rebounding. But I think Pietrus and others held the boards pretty well. Limited rebounding from the PF position isn't going to be accepted especially if it starts killing the team.

    I wonder what you guys think about Pietrus starting when JRich comes back. Pietrus, Baron, Al, and Jackson were strong on the perimeter forcing turnovers. JRich seems like he might hurt that little streak running there with what 16 and now 18 steals in the last two games.</div>

    That's what I'm saying. AL is one dimensional because it's all the offensive side of the game. He did have 3 steals, but he needs to get us rebounds and help AB clog the middle. Instead, we have MP doing that on the defensive side. I would've settled for less points from AL and more on the defensive end. It's shouldn't be all AL because then the other guys, especially AB, doesn't get involved.

    Overall, we outran and outgunned the Lakers for 3 quarters, but couldn't outgun them in the end when it counted.
     
  5. Gohn

    Gohn JBB JustBBall Member

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    I like that the W's are forcing turnovers, but the problem is they turn the ball over just as much, bascially negating the advantage gained. The worst part is that it always seems to be in the fourth quarter when that happens, when they close the TO margin.

    Like tonight they ended up with 20 TOs to the Lakers 23.

    They are playing uptempo but they lose their advantage if they play sloppy (meaning they may not be that good at it despite the 106 PPG). It should be the other team that plays sloppy in an uptempo game. That's one of the advantages gained by playing uptempo, the other team making mistakes and playing out of control.

    Granted some of this is because of the new players who are still learning the system.

    But keeping the TOs low is a key to playing fast.
     
  6. HiRez

    HiRez Overlord

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    It's like the Warriors are the Giants and there's Armando Benitez lurking at the end, just waiting to pull defeat from the jaws of victory. This team has talent but still no killer instinct and it's not going to the playoffs, AGAIN. At least we'll own a record that will probably stand for decades. Book it!
     
  7. Gohn

    Gohn JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">HiRez Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's like the Warriors are the Giants and there's Armando Benitez lurking at the end, just waiting to pull defeat from the jaws of victory. This team has talent but still no killer instinct and it's not going to the playoffs, AGAIN. At least we'll own a record that will probably stand for decades. Book it!</div>

    Gah, why can't they at least be like the A's. Make the playoffs and choke in the first round.
     
  8. Clif25

    Clif25 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Umm...Who killed Al on defense tonight? Brian Cook made some good shots from way outside, shots that I would let him have. Turiaf was nonexistant same as Radmonovic. Luke Walton was pathetic. The Lakers shot 43%. Al Harrington had three steals and a block which shows that he was active defensively. Maybe you were watching it more closely than I was, but I don't remember Al playing horrible defense. It was not like he was playing like Jamison, Murphy, or Dunleavy defensively. I agree that Al needs to do better rebounding. Last game he had 12, this game Pietrus seemed to take Al's rebounding role and he ended up with 14 this game.

    Again I really think it was Sarunas who hurt this team. Sarunas slowed the game down and the team imploded. I thought the team learned after watching Sarunas do nothing when Monta took the ball over one time when Sarunas was still in, and Monta made a nice move. But the next possession I think Stephen Jackson had it, and then the rest of the way it was Sarunas who really kept the Warriors from playing the way the did the whole game, when they were winning. Sarunas on defense was just as embarrassing. I don't know why Nelson lost so much faith in Monta Ellis to not even have him take over the game as PG like he has so many times in the past. I suppose Nelson was yelling to run but Sarunas just doesn't play that style. Of course this problem was kind of multiplied when Baron went down with the injury.
     
  9. upsidedownside7

    upsidedownside7 JBB JustBBall Member

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    I can't believe you guys crapping on Harrington, he played awesome. His shot was falling, he was finishing at the basket, running the break, even passed the ball a few times. How in the world is that one dimensional? He went for 30 while shooting ABOVE .50%.

    Harrington didn't rebound the ball at all but Biedrins wasn't much better. Only guy who stepped up in that department was Pietrus. I actually thought he played better defense than Murphy or Dunleavy ever did against the Lakers. Notice his hands and how no unknown scrubs had a career night playing us like Walton or Turiaf. Nobody scored more than 15 except Kobe. AL definitley needs to grab more boards, 1 is horrible, but he deserves credit for carrying us in the game.

    Be happy you turned Murphy and Dunleavy into a capable NBA starter let alone two...seriously.

    The result of the game sucked and we really need to trade a wing for a big guy that can rebound. Old squad would have lost the game a lot sooner then late in the 4th. We're clearly better but I don't know if that's good enough. We definitley need a backup guy that can rebound at the 4/5. Without that, Biedrins is all alone in there.

    I liked Josh Powell a lot. Tough young guy. I'd absolutely keep him and look for another guy that can do the same. Foyle should never play and apparently Nelson agrees because he went with Powell over Foyle during the 2nd half. [​IMG]

    Sarunas will be okay. He's a high risk type of player but he's capable of making plays. Give him time to get acclimated to the other guys on the squad. He did have a horrific stretch of basketball but whatever...

    Jackson defended Kobe as well as you could and certainly better than Pietrus. He didn't play with as much intensity but I like him more than Dunleavy.
     
  10. Warriorfansnc93

    Warriorfansnc93 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Does anyone else notice how undersized Biedrens is to the rest of the NBA's REAL centers? I mean Dwight Howard, Bynum and Milicic are all HUGE compared to Biedrens and he just can not do anything about it. I started to notice this a few years ago when Monty would play Beans and Zarko together how Zarko was taller than him when they showed them standing next to eachother in the huddle.

    With that said, I would have no problem trading some players of our swingmen we have plus Biedrens for a real big man. I just dont think Biedrens is a real big man. He gets most of his points on pick and rolls or when he loses his man in the middle. I know he has some potential, but I dont think he will ever meet that potential on a consistant basis. I think the same thing for Monta. Just a though...
     
  11. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    <div class="quote_poster">upsidedownside7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I can't believe you guys crapping on Harrington, he played awesome. His shot was falling, he was finishing at the basket, running the break, even passed the ball a few times. How in the world is that one dimensional? He went for 30 while shooting ABOVE .50%.

    Harrington didn't rebound the ball at all but Biedrins wasn't much better. Only guy who stepped up in that department was Pietrus. I actually thought he played better defense than Murphy or Dunleavy ever did against the Lakers. Notice his hands and how no unknown scrubs had a career night playing us like Walton or Turiaf. Nobody scored more than 15 except Kobe. AL definitley needs to grab more boards, 1 is horrible, but he deserves credit for carrying us in the game.

    Be happy you turned Murphy and Dunleavy into a capable NBA starter let alone two...seriously.

    The result of the game sucked and we really need to trade a wing for a big guy that can rebound. Old squad would have lost the game a lot sooner then late in the 4th. We're clearly better but I don't know if that's good enough. We definitley need a backup guy that can rebound at the 4/5. Without that, Biedrins is all alone in there.

    I liked Josh Powell a lot. Tough young guy. I'd absolutely keep him and look for another guy that can do the same. Foyle should never play and apparently Nelson agrees because he went with Powell over Foyle during the 2nd half. [​IMG]

    Sarunas will be okay. He's a high risk type of player but he's capable of making plays. Give him time to get acclimated to the other guys on the squad. He did have a horrific stretch of basketball but whatever...

    Jackson defended Kobe as well as you could and certainly better than Pietrus. He didn't play with as much intensity but I like him more than Dunleavy.</div>

    Agree, if Harrington is one dimensional then so is Arenas, Ray Allen, Eddy Curry, Rashard Lewis, etc. I'll gladly take him scoring 30 on 68% shooting. I don't know where all this talk of him playing horrible defense is coming from either, the guys he guarded were held in check and although 1 rebound is horrible he at least boxes out and keeps his own man off the glass which is more than I can say for Murphy or Dunleavy. Its ridiculous to blame this game on just Harrington, or any one player for that matter, the team screwed it up as a whole (though the officials didn't help [​IMG] )

    Our old team would have gotten blown out by 20-30 points, the Lakers are extremely tough to beat in L.A., we better get a win streak going here soon though and get back to .500 quickly or else it may be too little too late.
     
  12. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    Al Harrington is the perfect fit for the Warriors. He plays with a lot of energy, is adament about getting to the rim, and hustles in transition. The Warriors got in trouble once they stopped moving the ball on offense. In the 1st quarter, they had some beautiful ball movement along the perimeter and it lead to easy looks.

    When the Lakers made a run, the Warriors abandoned their offensive sets and started settling for low percentage jumpshots.

    I noticed the Warriors defense is a result of their offense. When shots aren't falling, the players don't put much effort on the defensive end. Kobe was getting to his spots on the court without any resistance during the second half.

    The Warriors just lack discipline right now, and don't fully trust Nellie's offense. They get caught up in one-on-one basketball instead of moving the ball around and creating baskets within the offense.

    Early on in the game the Warriors were getting a lot of easy baskets with the high pick. Baron Davis ran his defender right into the back pick, and then either pulled up for the jumper, or made a pass to his teammate if the backcut was available.
     
  13. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    Harrington = One Dimensional?

    Dude, you guys are digging a little too deep to find negatives about him. In the two games that I have watched him play, he has already proven to me that he's more athletic, smoother, and aggressive than Murphy and Dunleavy combined.

    His passing isn't great, but not bad.

    He brought a lot to the table last night. Give these guys a few more games to come together. The W's are literally playing with a 1/4 of a new team...of course there will be an adjustment period.
     
  14. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    We have to look at it this way, we're still not playoff locks until we can find some kind of halfcourt inside presence on the glass and scoring inside. We also have to play better defense and better team ball during the 4th. We cannot have this attitude like the team will roll over for us in the 4th like the first three quarters. The first three quarters of a game mean nothing, which is what makes those probability meters kind of dumb because they change dramatically with the last few posessions of a close game or where we fail to score to keep it from being a close game.

    The reason I get on Harrington is because he plays more like a small forward than he does an actual big man. Yeah sure he can run and score and when unselfish boasts 1:1 assist per turnover ratio (which isn't that good). I'm not saying the trade wasn't good, it's just we still don't have that type of guy who can deliver 20/10 block shots more regularly and fill up the paint. Harrington doesn't have that role as that F/C kind of a player. He's a SF/PF and not really the good kind IMO. He's brought a sense of false hope IMO in that his overall impact could be something like that of Murphy. He's a wash type player if the power forward can't rebound or matchup with other bigs strength wise. 6'9 250 lbs ain't nothing if the other guy is stronger at 240 lbs with a longer wingspan. Just look at Ben Wallace. As bad as Ben Wallace is looking I'd rather have him over Harrington who confuses the PF role with that of a wing player.

    I'll try to be patient, but then again I guess I'm not a fan of Nelly ball for too long. We haven't even won a game yet (since all this hype... well two games, but I'm impatient and three quarters of good ball is nothing) and defense still sucks if we're counting on forcing turnovers by gambling on steals. We need to play man to man occasionally and contain guys. Instead we get over the foul limit and start reaching in or just getting blitzed by stronger players. Maybe I'm also upset that we're legitimately trying to make a playoff push in possibly one of the deepest drafts since 2003. Well maybe not 2003, but close to it.

    Anyway, I think all-around variety of defense and rebounding need to improve or else we're cooked. We'd do well in 4th quarters just to play man to man but we play zone and lose the gamble. Then we can't score because the team doesn't shoot free throws or they're not being crafty enough to get the call. They're just forcing stuff up a la Barnes.

    All I'm saying is we need to find more ways to win rather than find more of the same way we always try to win.
     
  15. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not saying the trade wasn't good, it's just we still don't have that type of guy who can deliver 20/10 block shots more regularly and fill up the paint.</div>

    And I don't think we will ever get that type of player. It's a pipe dream but if Mullin can make it happen, kudos to him. But, to gain that type of player, we have to give up a J-Rich or a Baron Davis. I don't think we can just give up expiring contracts for a KG or JO or even Pau Gasol.

    I think you need to look at Harrington as a basketball player, not a player to fill a void at a specific position. He's an upgrade over Murphy and Dunleavy. He's on the court, making things happen. You're equating more rebounds and blocked shots to wins. Or you're thinking one dominant PF will bring the defense that will win us games. I don't think that's the answer.

    If the current team can play to their potential and not make so many "rookie" mistakes, then we will start winning games. All these "we should have won" games are not a result of us not having the prototypical dominant PF.
     
  16. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    I don't know what to think just yet because it's too early, but if I had to jump to conclusions, I think the trade made us the same for short term because we still lack a true go-to inside player, rebounder and all-around defender I think we need. We didn't have one anyway, but to call the trade something that will NOW push us into the playoffs is a bit high hopes, I think. (Not to crush hopes btw, I'm trying to argue that pieces are still missing and we still need roles to compete with other bigger teams that can limit fastbreak buckets).

    It's like when we score a certain amount, so does the other team score quite a bit. Example: We gain $100 bucks, but lose $108. Doesn't matter if we lose big or small, we still lose money. But some are pleased that we managed to win something at least rather than get way way less. What we need is a good balance between big/small/slow/fast/offense/defense so that we can dictate the tempo against any opponent. That's hard to achieve, but I hope we can do it someday.
     
  17. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Kensaku Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
    If the current team can play to their potential and not make so many "rookie" mistakes, then we will start winning games. All these "we should have won" games are not a result of us not having the prototypical dominant PF.</div>

    But that's what we say every year. What if Foyle, Dun, and Pietrus played to their potential? Sometimes it ain't going to happen.

    All these games we haven't won was the result of guys doing more of the same thing rather than providing things we dont' have, that we need to win. for instance what happens to us in 4th quarter ball? Why can't we get it inside? Why can't we play better defense? Why can't we take care of the ball? Some of it is lack of organization, some of it is I feel we're not having the right variety of role players to affect the matchups out there. We're a speed based matchup, but what if we're not beating them with speed anymore? That's what I'm saying. They get bigger, we only get smaller and try to be faster. That doesn't work all the time.

    If we don't get an anchor in the paint besides Biedrins, then we won't win. It's as simple as that. No recent Western team has one without a beast inside except for Sonics that one time, who did not repeat playoffs btw.

    I mean where we're at right now is a start... let's just hope Mullin can finish. He's not done yet or else he's cooked. A pg, pg, sg, sf, pf lineup is too small to play pg, sg, sf, pf, c some nights. But we don't have much in the rotation to go bigger. I guess I'm pessimistic because the Warriors haven't done anything of note to make the most of an open window of opportunity. They do something nice to get fans excited, but then they don't finish. It's like playing three quarters of ball and then blowing it in the 4th. Why get me out of my seat if they're going to end like that?
     
  18. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know what to think just yet because it's too early, but if I had to jump to conclusions, I think the trade made us the same for short term because we still lack a true go-to inside player, rebounder and all-around defender I think we need. We didn't have one anyway, but to call the trade something that will NOW push us into the playoffs is a bit high hopes, I think. (Not to crush hopes btw, I'm trying to argue that pieces are still missing and we still need roles to compete with other bigger teams that can limit fastbreak buckets).

    It's like when we score a certain amount, so does the other team score quite a bit. Example: We gain $100 bucks, but lose $108. Doesn't matter if we lose big or small, we still lose money. But some are pleased that we managed to win something at least rather than get way way less. What we need is a good balance between big/small/slow/fast/offense/defense so that we can dictate the tempo against any opponent. That's hard to achieve, but I hope we can do it someday.</div>

    I haven't mentioned playoffs once since the trade [​IMG]

    But, I think the team has improved both in player talent and salary cap relief (in years to come). Yes, it's too early to see and so far we have two losses to show for it. I like Harrington's attitude and he wants to be here. If he can play at a high-intensity level like yesterday, then I'm happy with him individually. I'd like to see the entire team play that way for 48 minutes and not squander away leads.

    There have been too many shoulda/woulda/coulda's this year...
     
  19. Doctor Kajita

    Doctor Kajita Active Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">But that's what we say every year. What if Foyle, Dun, and Pietrus played to their potential? Sometimes it ain't going to happen.

    All these games we haven't won was the result of guys doing more of the same thing rather than providing things we dont' have, that we need to win. for instance what happens to us in 4th quarter ball? Why can't we get it inside? Why can't we play better defense? Why can't we take care of the ball? Some of it is lack of organization, some of it is I feel we're not having the right variety of role players to affect the matchups out there. We're a speed based matchup, but what if we're not beating them with speed anymore? That's what I'm saying. They get bigger, we only get smaller and try to be faster. That doesn't work all the time.

    If we don't get an anchor in the paint besides Biedrins, then we won't win. It's as simple as that. No recent Western team has one without a beast inside except for Sonics that one time, who did not repeat playoffs btw.

    I mean where we're at right now is a start... let's just hope Mullin can finish. He's not done yet or else he's cooked. A pg, pg, sg, sf, pf lineup is too small to play pg, sg, sf, pf, c some nights. But we don't have much in the rotation to go bigger. I guess I'm pessimistic because the Warriors haven't done anything of note to make the most of an open window of opportunity. They do something nice to get fans excited, but then they don't finish. It's like playing three quarters of ball and then blowing it in the 4th. Why get me out of my seat if they're going to end like that?</div>

    Fo sho.
     
  20. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Kensaku Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I haven't mentioned playoffs once since the trade [​IMG]

    But, I think the team has improved both in player talent and salary cap relief (in years to come). Yes, it's too early to see and so far we have two losses to show for it. I like Harrington's attitude and he wants to be here. If he can play at a high-intensity level like yesterday, then I'm happy with him individually. I'd like to see the entire team play that way for 48 minutes and not squander away leads.

    There have been too many shoulda/woulda/coulda's this year...</div>

    I know you haven't. [​IMG]

    I agree we've improved in player talent, but not at PF or C. We've gained some tax relief. I like Harrington's attitude, but I think he should be more unselfish and tougher on the glass with fewer tournovers. To me he's like Eddy Curry. Yeah he's good for a few things and makes nice impact here and there, but he can hurt you more if he's blowing it. He's like a big name player, that isn't all that IMO. I've watched his game over the years and it just wasn't impressive to me as the all-around player type for a tweener.

    Like I said I'm just impatient and I hope many more deals are in the works + a steal of the 2007 draft. I'm worried that in trades and gm moves, the warriors will "play great for the first three quarters making you believe we're turning the corner, but then we blow it in the fourth"

    All in all the warriors offense has been fun to watch. But at times it's like watching a guy make a terrific move and he can't finish the layup! All that wonderful display of skill and he misses. That's what it feels like right now to watch the warriors game overall. I just hope we can start winning soon and go on a huge streak. We're such a bad road team though... It's hard to believe that we can be a playoff team with such a bad road record. I want to be a playoff team, but at the same time I want good draft position [​IMG] Maybe we get lucky and win the lotto when we don't deserve it this season if we go to the lotto.
     

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