Notice We got to stop this shit....

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Hoopguru, Apr 26, 2023.

  1. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    So they deal with 'dangerous people" by not really dealing with them. And for the umpteenth time, comparing US crime vs most European crime is apples and oranges...even your link/s say this and though murders may be down in Camden, other crimes there are on the rise.

    The problem is not so much the prison system as it the staggering amount of crime and the staggering amount of criminals who don't care if they go back to prison time and time again.

    And gathering hardened criminals in a room and having them join in a group chorus of "Kum bay ah" is not going to change things. I have giving up on you providing concrete proof on your "models" being successful with these type people...do you have it or not? Also have yet to hear what "words I put in your mouth",

    Instead of just saying things, back them up. If you can't/won't do this, I think we sould simply let this go.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2023
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  2. SharpeScooterShooter

    SharpeScooterShooter SharpeShooter

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    Who said anything about nonviolent criminals? Its only been about violent criminals and repeat offenders. And those who want to defy the system and tear it down through violence.
    Nobody said anything about anything else.

    As a matter of fact, i gave a bit of personal history explaining how the system now currently treats all criminals the same and that shouldn't be. This is now basically what you have recently just said.

    You just like to argue. Lol.

    I never quoted you to start, yet you assumed i was talking about you. I would have wuoted you if i were.
    I then explained to you and you argued against it even though it seems what i said we need is what you have propsed.
    But you keep arguing instead of agreeing…

    Nobody said this and nobody said that. Exactly. Nobody said anything about the nonviolent poor decision makers who know right from wrong but made a poor decision and wont do it again.
    Nobody said that. or you can quote it when you try to argue.

    Running circles here for what???

    You seem to go out of e way to dismiss some agreed opinions to argue some all encompassing point but then come back and sus nobody said this or said that. yank and i have been talking about a particular sect of Criminals and you keep combining them with all other criminals. Interjecting nobody said anything in here. We know this or we would have quoted you saying this in response.

    Some people are able to discuss outside of this S2 box with other members. Just because you consider only people talking in here should reference only people in here doesn't mean everyone else does.
    Were talking about societal change. Of course there are more opinions out there than a few people on a forum. I happen to take that into a count. Not my issue if you don't and cant understand that others do.
    so yes many people think different about this topic. And yes posters here can discuss what others outside of the forum think without you interjecting your views as the only view.
    Maybe if you would have said, “correct. We need to individualize our investigations of criminals to properly punish and/or help, and this model does that”, then we wouldn't even need all this back and forth. But your inability to agree on things that have been stated that match your model and instead argue and argue in generalities is old…
     
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  3. SharpeScooterShooter

    SharpeScooterShooter SharpeShooter

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    @Phatguysrule do you agree with the bold or not ?
     
  4. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Look what thread we're in. It's about drug busts and crime in general. That's what I'm discussing.

    The US system feeds people into the drug trade. Many criminals have said they learned the drug trade in jail by going in for much lower level crimes.

    The US has the largest prison population on the planet, with extremely high rates of recidivism.

    There are models that deal with these things well, as well as reduce overall crime rates and recidivism. These models have achieved similar results everywhere they have been implemented around the world. Including cities in the US.

    I've suggested that we adopt these policies more broadly rather than policies we have used in the US, which have shown to be less effective and less efficient.

    You can try to pick the model apart if you like, but it has proven to work better than anything else we've tried in this country. I'd prefer we use the model that appears to produce higher rates of productive citizens and lower rates of repeat offenders as well as lower crime rates, as well as lowers complaints about Police and actually lowers rates of police abuse. Without any evidence of increased danger to the public (in fact the evidence suggests exactly the opposite).

    So if you're trying to pick the models apart please use sources showing a tested model that handles your specific complaint better (ideally with statistics on how well it works) to support your claims.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2023
  5. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    I have backed my claims up with links including stats.

    You have not. I would suggest that you do so or, indeed, take your own advice and drop it.

    I feel I've made my case as clearly as it can be made.

    If you have specific concerns about the policies I've suggested I'd be happy to address any data you can link to that shows a weakness in these areas.
     
  6. Hoopguru

    Hoopguru Well-Known Member

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    There needs to be a balance for how we as a country need to deal with criminal activity. I'm all for second chances but I also feel that as a society we cannot allow high level crimes to go unpunished. There must be a form of justice.
    Its going to take all sorts of actions to address and sort out those that want rehabilitation to become a law abiding part of society again, and at the same time deal with those that are not interested and represent a serious danger in re-entering society.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2023
  7. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    lol...again, I've asked several times for specifics but you keep tap dancing around my queries...I thought you were better than this...I was evidently wrong.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2023
  8. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    Hoop, I agree, and this goes to your original post...we do need to "stop this kind of shit"...and I'd be willing to bet that the POS that was caught that huge cache of that terrible drug, is already at least a one time offender. And I can guaran-damn-tee that if someone close to me died from what this trafficker I certainly would not consider counseling him as justice.

    Like I said earlier, I'm a bit liberal on some things but sympathy towards hardened criminals/multiple offenders is not one of them.
     
  9. SharpeScooterShooter

    SharpeScooterShooter SharpeShooter

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  10. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    You can continue to keep arguing all you want. I have made my suggestions.

    If you have any evidence at all that the policies I have suggested increase violent or repeat crime please feel free to post any data or legitimate information to support those concerns.

    I'm not interested in arguing about your gut feelings or personal opinion.
     
  11. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    I don't have an opinion on the bold.

    Once again, if you have concerns about the policies I have suggested please post legitimate data or reference material to support your concerns with the policies I have suggested.

    I am not interested in arguing over your gut feelings or personal opinions.
     
  12. SharpeScooterShooter

    SharpeScooterShooter SharpeShooter

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    Lol. Okay. We agreed and you cant just say so. Lol. You have real issues with that it seems. Time to read your posts as satire… you argue to argue. Period. Good day sir. :cheers:
     
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  13. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    WTF are you babbling about now? When did I ever say that your "policies" increase violent crime or repeat crime?...I didn't, and you know it...quote me where I did and I'll never post again.

    So now you're relegated to simply making shit up?...And I assume you're not going to finally address my main question ?
     
  14. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Whatever makes you feel better. Have a good day.
     
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  15. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    I didn't make any claims about your position.

    I have no idea how I could address your main question better than I already have. I am sorry if that isn't acceptable for you.

    If you have a specific problem with the policies I've proposed please feel free to address it with a reference to the position in said policy.
     
  16. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    Last edited: Apr 30, 2023
  17. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    I'm having trouble following what you're saying at this point.

    Are you concerned about how they deal with dangerous people? They keep them in jail for the entirety of their sentence, unless they are deemed to no longer be dangerous.

    I'm happy to discuss any specific concerns you may have with the policies I've suggested, but you'll have to be more clear about what parts you disagree with.
     
  18. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    I suddenly had an epiphany...there's no sense in trying to having a coherent conversation with a cartoon.
     
  19. Phatguysrule

    Phatguysrule Well-Known Member

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    Lol.

    If you are afraid of the answers you should refrain from asking scary questions.
     
  20. yankeesince59

    yankeesince59 "Oh Captain, my Captain".

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    I have absolutely no desire to continue this conversation with you any longer, or any other conversation, for that matter....to do so, is simply a complete waste of time, and this thread proves it.
     

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